A Boyz club or ....   I dunno....

This club seems to miss so many marks....

Are there basket weavers in the background??

12 hours ago, Adam The God said:

No, I've never agreed with you on your strange want and need for the board to be an unaccountable, autocratic being.

When David Rennick, the Vice President was cross examined in May, he repeatedly said the members didn't like having casual vacancies filled just prior to an election. He even said it wouldn't be a practise they would continue, and yet they clearly still are.

It's unacceptable. It erodes trust. 

Again, excellent strawman you are creating for yourself and your obviously biased hawk friend. Autocracies huh? I am talking about the unnecessary descent into a purer ‘democracy’ for football boards leads to an anarchy that is not going to lead to success, not going to lead to a united club, not going to lead to the best outcome for the us as fans, but I think it will lead to what this ‘hawk’ wants…

On 29/09/2024 at 07:04, Dr. Gonzo said:

Is it so hard to believe that the people running the club have not been that great at what they do? Easier to believe in a media driven conspiracy?

Is it not possible to believe both? I'm a Goodwin fan, but have never backed in any particular member of our board or administration because I simply don't know if they are any good at their jobs outside of some basic metrics, which as an outsider can't be assessed as to causation or correlation. It seems most on here, me included, don't even know what their jobs are, but why not let's sack everyone?

Edit: I wanted Schwab gone, because I believed he had overstepped his remit. 

It's perfectly valid that you are annoyed at the club. It's also reasonable of me to point out that certain parties unrelated to our club are taking advantage of that and stirring the pot, both on here and in the media, for their own gain. You may well desire sweeping changes at management level - and we can argue the benefits of that separately Gonzo - but do you really want to support them just because they share your message? 

There are forces at work, paid and unrelated to the MFC, who are deliberately trying to tear our club apart. Some casual reading below if you want. The 'conspiracy' side of it from my end, is that these other clubs also endured some serious media heat at the time of their board challenges, which may well have been true, but could have also been manufactured by getting in ears or paying $$$. I see Phil Egan is now looking at a pretty lengthy prison stint for fraud. 

I sent this quote to another Demonland member, because it really stood out: "Gowers' support team of communications experts and political operatives would employ methods unusual in football circles: tactics developed in the more progressive reaches of American politics."

If you were being paid millions of dollars to destabilise a club and had no morals in the Crosby Textor era, what would you do? I would probably get on the phone to Petracca and Pickett's grandmas as just a start. Oliver also seems an easy target perhaps? We can pay for your court cases, when the club said mean stuff about you. 

The bigger conspiracy then, is trying to work out why certain people are waging multi-million dollar campaigns with dirty political tactics to secure an unpaid board seat on an AFL football club? I made the jump that it could be about construction contracts. Just a hunch, so no idea if true. If someone wants to pay me for a few days work, I'm pretty sure I could dig up some links between those incoming board members and future commercial contracts. 

I respect the likes of you and @Adam The God. I'm asking you both to look past your issues with the club to just assess for one second what may be going on here. Just to reiterate, I have never supported any particular member of our board. I posted apprehension about Pert's appointment at the time. I live on the other side of the world. I very evidently have no chips in this game, as compared to some others on here.

https://hawksforchange.org/ (if you ran this through a plagiarism checker against the Deemocracy site there would be some serious flags). 

https://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/324165/peggy-oneal-statement (Former Hawthorn Football Club director Richard Amos officially on the record as driving the 'Focus On Footy' campaign. 

https://www.royce.com.au/pages/our-people (interesting for a sniff around about who else works/has worked at the company, who owns it, and their involvement in state politics). 

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/proud-passionate-and-paid-up--how-hawthorn-fans-saved-their-club-20160804-gqkthw.html (cutting his teeth? I was too busy adventuring at the time, others may remember more and some stuff about the media framing since . . .)

https://thestory.au/articles/hawthorn-football-club-afl-jeff-kennett-president-andy-gowers/ (for the above-mentioned quote. I can dig up some more media reading if anyone wants?). 

The bloke you're agreeing with even has a pun in is username. I will answer every question asked as to who I am. He continually refuses to do so. You really want to back in this stranger to our forum because you want some people sacked at our club? Or will you take heed from someone who has a ten-year posting history on here, has never been involved in the politics of our club, and can get real-life good-guy vouching from other members? 

 

 

 

 

 

Oops

Edited October 1, 2024Oct 1 by Roost it far

6 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

I’m watching what’s playing out in real time and the one phrase that keeps coming to mind is “the fish rots from the head”.

It's fitting maybe that the phrase that keeps coming to mind has no factual basis in biological terms? Is that what you're trying to say? 

Just now, Skuit said:

It's fitting maybe that the phrase that keeps coming to mind has no factual basis in biological terms? Is that what you're trying to say? 

Maybe. I’m stepping out of this discussion as I don’t have enough knowledge of what’s going on. I just don’t like that it is going on. We look like a bunch of amateurs. 

1 minute ago, Roost it far said:

Maybe. I’m stepping out of this discussion as I don’t have enough knowledge of what’s going on. I just don’t like that it is going on. We look like a bunch of amateurs. 

I just entered like a million-word post, which I wasn't paid for. I don't know what is going on either. But there are some links there so you can do your own research. I agree that we look like/or are being made to look like a bunch of amateurs. 

2 hours ago, Skuit said:

Is it not possible to believe both? I'm a Goodwin fan, but have never backed in any particular member of our board or administration because I simply don't know if they are any good at their jobs outside of some basic metrics, which as an outsider can't be assessed as to causation or correlation. It seems most on here, me included, don't even know what their jobs are, but why not let's sack everyone?

Edit: I wanted Schwab gone, because I believed he had overstepped his remit. 

It's perfectly valid that you are annoyed at the club. It's also reasonable of me to point out that certain parties unrelated to our club are taking advantage of that and stirring the pot, both on here and in the media, for their own gain. You may well desire sweeping changes at management level - and we can argue the benefits of that separately Gonzo - but do you really want to support them just because they share your message? 

There are forces at work, paid and unrelated to the MFC, who are deliberately trying to tear our club apart. Some casual reading below if you want. The 'conspiracy' side of it from my end, is that these other clubs also endured some serious media heat at the time of their board challenges, which may well have been true, but could have also been manufactured by getting in ears or paying $$$. I see Phil Egan is now looking at a pretty lengthy prison stint for fraud. 

I sent this quote to another Demonland member, because it really stood out: "Gowers' support team of communications experts and political operatives would employ methods unusual in football circles: tactics developed in the more progressive reaches of American politics."

If you were being paid millions of dollars to destabilise a club and had no morals in the Crosby Textor era, what would you do? I would probably get on the phone to Petracca and Pickett's grandmas as just a start. Oliver also seems an easy target perhaps? We can pay for your court cases, when the club said mean stuff about you. 

The bigger conspiracy then, is trying to work out why certain people are waging multi-million dollar campaigns with dirty political tactics to secure an unpaid board seat on an AFL football club? I made the jump that it could be about construction contracts. Just a hunch, so no idea if true. If someone wants to pay me for a few days work, I'm pretty sure I could dig up some links between those incoming board members and future commercial contracts. 

I respect the likes of you and @Adam The God. I'm asking you both to look past your issues with the club to just assess for one second what may be going on here. Just to reiterate, I have never supported any particular member of our board. I posted apprehension about Pert's appointment at the time. I live on the other side of the world. I very evidently have no chips in this game, as compared to some others on here.

https://hawksforchange.org/ (if you ran this through a plagiarism checker against the Deemocracy site there would be some serious flags). 

https://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/324165/peggy-oneal-statement (Former Hawthorn Football Club director Richard Amos officially on the record as driving the 'Focus On Footy' campaign. 

https://www.royce.com.au/pages/our-people (interesting for a sniff around about who else works/has worked at the company, who owns it, and their involvement in state politics). 

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/proud-passionate-and-paid-up--how-hawthorn-fans-saved-their-club-20160804-gqkthw.html (cutting his teeth? I was too busy adventuring at the time, others may remember more and some stuff about the media framing since . . .)

https://thestory.au/articles/hawthorn-football-club-afl-jeff-kennett-president-andy-gowers/ (for the above-mentioned quote. I can dig up some more media reading if anyone wants?). 

The bloke you're agreeing with even has a pun in is username. I will answer every question asked as to who I am. He continually refuses to do so. You really want to back in this stranger to our forum because you want some people sacked at our club? Or will you take heed from someone who has a ten-year posting history on here, has never been involved in the politics of our club, and can get real-life good-guy vouching from other members? 

The board lost me when the last two presidents emailed members telling them who to vote for, having installed candidates in casual vacancy positions just prior elections.

As cultural issues have snowballed at the club, we've had persistently terrible comms (something Binman and others have been on about for years) through clear cuts to the comms department over several years; the board failed to deliver a promised 2024 strategy; we had a President who didn't even bother to turn up to the Presidents function earlier in the year (or send a replacement) effectively rendering us voiceless; the CEO couldn't manage to land a shorts sponsor despite having three top 4 seasons in a row; the CEO went on radio and essentially put a target on our back with ridiculous hyperbole about the best culture in 40 years; the board via Rennick as the mouthpiece said in Federal Court in May that members did not want them installing candidates into casual vacancies; and the wishy-washy PR update on the Caulfield home base etc etc.

Look at who they installed as our latest President. A bloke that goes out and has a coffee with Guitnik and it ends up on the front page within days. We also continue to leak like a sieve under Green and Pert's leadership.

I'm not exactly sure what there is to assess if you basically agree with you were never a fan of Pert's.

As for this idea that you have to out yourself on an internet message board, it's bizarre. You don't have to agree with the information that Hawk is passing on, but to demand Hawk out who they are is really quite strange and IMO unreasonable. 

Finally, vis a vis all those links, I have no idea what you're trying to suggest...

And btw, I've always loved you as a poster. You can have your view and I'll have mine.

Edited October 1, 2024Oct 1 by Adam The God

3 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

The board lost me when the last two presidents emailed members telling them who to vote for, having installed candidates in casual vacancy positions just prior to the election.

As cultural issues have snowballed at the club, we've had persistently terrible comms (something Binman and others have been on about for years) through clear cuts to the comms department over several years; the board failed to deliver a promised 2024 strategy; we had a President who didn't even bother to turn up to the Presidents function earlier in the year (or sending a replacement) effectively rendering us voiceless; the CEO couldn't manage to land a shorts sponsor despite having three top 4 seasons in a row; the CEO went on radio and essentially put a target on our back with ridiculous hyperbole about the best culture in 40 years; the board via Rennick as the mouthpiece said in Federal Court in May that members did not want them installing candidates into casual vacancies etc etc.

Look at who they installed as our latest President. A bloke that goes out and has a coffee with Guitnik and it ends up on the front page within days. We also continue to leak like a sieve under Green and Pert's leadership.

I'm not exactly sure what there is to assess if you basically agree with you were never a fan of Pert's.

As for this idea that you have to out yourself on an internet message board, it's bizarre. You don't have to agree with the information that Hawk is passing on, but to demand Hawk out who they are is really quite strange and IMO unreasonable. 

Finally, vis a vis all those links, I have no idea what you're trying to suggest...

And btw, I've always loved you as a poster. You can have your view and I'll have mine.

Dude. What if i agree with 98 percent of what you have just posted?

I would rather hear it from you than someone who is being paid to post on here and has no link to our club.

You can back change. Just be careful who you get in bed with to achieve that change. 

You're a sensible guy Adam. 

You don't think posters should be transparent about their political affiliations? If being paid to post? 

 

 

 

 

The implosion of our club, going from the most stable and successful it’s been in 50+ years, to its current state is unbelievably breathtaking.

5 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

The implosion of our club, going from the most stable and successful it’s been in 50+ years, to its current state is unbelievably breathtaking.

And yet you want to continue entertaining the idea that it's unique to our footy club - the MFC shemozzle syndrome? - and not potentially due to bigger, outside forces? Why do you genuinely think Roffey jumped ship so quickly? 

6 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Will Pert get a please explain following the Age article suggesting that he's been shopping Oliver around to other clubs.

Even if authorised its amateur hour.... (use an untraceable source)

Three other club and industry sources with knowledge of trade discussions said that Gary Pert, the Melbourne CEO who has been running two reviews into the club, recently made contact with a number of teams about whether they had an interest in trading for Oliver.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/the-inside-story-how-word-spread-that-oliver-was-on-the-market-again-20241001-p5kevi.html

The club is a basketcase with these clowns in charge. Pert needs to go now, he was a huge cause of the issues at Collingwood and it seems he hasn't learnt from last mistakes.

[censored] him off so we can get a proper review done without his fingerprints all over it.

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

Again, excellent strawman you are creating for yourself and your obviously biased hawk friend. Autocracies huh? I am talking about the unnecessary descent into a purer ‘democracy’ for football boards leads to an anarchy that is not going to lead to success, not going to lead to a united club, not going to lead to the best outcome for the us as fans, but I think it will lead to what this ‘hawk’ wants…

What we have now is not leading to any of those things. The people running the club are incompetent. I agree that leaving it up to the members to vote isn't a recipe for success but the mob in there at the moment have burnt any goodwill they may have had. 2021 is in the past, the only premiership I care about is the next one and the current administration are proving they are not fit to lead us there.

30 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

The implosion of our club, going from the most stable and successful it’s been in 50+ years, to its current state is unbelievably breathtaking.

Breathtaking?!

It's horrific!

 

There's going to be alot of media vultures camping out the front of the Melbourne Demons Best & Fairest event on Friday evening.

1 hour ago, Skuit said:

Is it not possible to believe both? I'm a Goodwin fan, but have never backed in any particular member of our board or administration because I simply don't know if they are any good at their jobs outside of some basic metrics, which as an outsider can't be assessed as to causation or correlation. It seems most on here, me included, don't even know what their jobs are, but why not let's sack everyone?

Edit: I wanted Schwab gone, because I believed he had overstepped his remit. 

It's perfectly valid that you are annoyed at the club. It's also reasonable of me to point out that certain parties unrelated to our club are taking advantage of that and stirring the pot, both on here and in the media, for their own gain. You may well desire sweeping changes at management level - and we can argue the benefits of that separately Gonzo - but do you really want to support them just because they share your message? 

There are forces at work, paid and unrelated to the MFC, who are deliberately trying to tear our club apart. Some casual reading below if you want. The 'conspiracy' side of it from my end, is that these other clubs also endured some serious media heat at the time of their board challenges, which may well have been true, but could have also been manufactured by getting in ears or paying $$$. I see Phil Egan is now looking at a pretty lengthy prison stint for fraud. 

I sent this quote to another Demonland member, because it really stood out: "Gowers' support team of communications experts and political operatives would employ methods unusual in football circles: tactics developed in the more progressive reaches of American politics."

If you were being paid millions of dollars to destabilise a club and had no morals in the Crosby Textor era, what would you do? I would probably get on the phone to Petracca and Pickett's grandmas as just a start. Oliver also seems an easy target perhaps? We can pay for your court cases, when the club said mean stuff about you. 

The bigger conspiracy then, is trying to work out why certain people are waging multi-million dollar campaigns with dirty political tactics to secure an unpaid board seat on an AFL football club? I made the jump that it could be about construction contracts. Just a hunch, so no idea if true. If someone wants to pay me for a few days work, I'm pretty sure I could dig up some links between those incoming board members and future commercial contracts. 

I respect the likes of you and @Adam The God. I'm asking you both to look past your issues with the club to just assess for one second what may be going on here. Just to reiterate, I have never supported any particular member of our board. I posted apprehension about Pert's appointment at the time. I live on the other side of the world. I very evidently have no chips in this game, as compared to some others on here.

https://hawksforchange.org/ (if you ran this through a plagiarism checker against the Deemocracy site there would be some serious flags). 

https://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/324165/peggy-oneal-statement (Former Hawthorn Football Club director Richard Amos officially on the record as driving the 'Focus On Footy' campaign. 

https://www.royce.com.au/pages/our-people (interesting for a sniff around about who else works/has worked at the company, who owns it, and their involvement in state politics). 

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/proud-passionate-and-paid-up--how-hawthorn-fans-saved-their-club-20160804-gqkthw.html (cutting his teeth? I was too busy adventuring at the time, others may remember more and some stuff about the media framing since . . .)

https://thestory.au/articles/hawthorn-football-club-afl-jeff-kennett-president-andy-gowers/ (for the above-mentioned quote. I can dig up some more media reading if anyone wants?). 

The bloke you're agreeing with even has a pun in is username. I will answer every question asked as to who I am. He continually refuses to do so. You really want to back in this stranger to our forum because you want some people sacked at our club? Or will you take heed from someone who has a ten-year posting history on here, has never been involved in the politics of our club, and can get real-life good-guy vouching from other members? 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for the links and the time to respond to me. Just to reiterate, I don't believe this is a media driven conspiracy, the media care about eyes on their product and car crashes sell better than good news stories. If it bleeds it leads, right?

I don't agree with Hawk the Demon about everything, I do believe the current administration have run their course and it is time for an overhaul. That doesn't necessarily mean the board but it does mean the Pres/CEO and head of footy should go.

I am not a Peter Lawrence supporter, I don't know him from a bar of soap. I do think his actions have been blown way out of proportion by the club and certain posters on here and that's why I may seem to be defending him - even if I don't back him I do back his right to have his say on the club. People complaining about receiving emails from him just come across as sooks or stooges for the current admin who btw spent plenty of money on ridiculous court cases that could have been settled.

So your position is that certain individuals involved with construction companies have sought to overthrow the admins of several clubs to get a foot in the door on the construction of their new home base and Peter Lawrence is their proxy for Melbourne? Seems a bit far fetched to me considering there is no guarantee at all that we will ever see construction of a home base let alone have the board convinced to go with a company linked to a board member they have had legal troubles with. If Lawrence has been a large donor and player sponsor it seems his allegiance to MFC runs pretty deep, deeper than Pert, Roffey, our ex-Pres (HWSNBN) etc....

19 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Thanks for the links and the time to respond to me. Just to reiterate, I don't believe this is a media driven conspiracy, the media care about eyes on their product and car crashes sell better than good news stories. If it bleeds it leads, right?

I don't agree with Hawk the Demon about everything, I do believe the current administration have run their course and it is time for an overhaul. That doesn't necessarily mean the board but it does mean the Pres/CEO and head of footy should go.

I am not a Peter Lawrence supporter, I don't know him from a bar of soap. I do think his actions have been blown way out of proportion by the club and certain posters on here and that's why I may seem to be defending him - even if I don't back him I do back his right to have his say on the club. People complaining about receiving emails from him just come across as sooks or stooges for the current admin who btw spent plenty of money on ridiculous court cases that could have been settled.

So your position is that certain individuals involved with construction companies have sought to overthrow the admins of several clubs to get a foot in the door on the construction of their new home base and Peter Lawrence is their proxy for Melbourne? Seems a bit far fetched to me considering there is no guarantee at all that we will ever see construction of a home base let alone have the board convinced to go with a company linked to a board member they have had legal troubles with. If Lawrence has been a large donor and player sponsor it seems his allegiance to MFC runs pretty deep, deeper than Pert, Roffey, our ex-Pres (HWSNBN) etc....

Thanks for your balanced response Gonzo.

Let's agree on some things to build some rapport: I also don't know Peter from a bar of soap, but he sounds pretty charming from most reports and his love of our club isn't remotely in question. 

The way the board has conducted itself is pretty shameful in a lot of respects in my mind. Self-serving and undemocratic. I salute 'Peter' in overturning some clauses, others we can argue about the club defending from a difference of political opinions. 

We also both agree the email list thing is pretty small-fry in the contemporary world. My position is the club had to at least make a show of challenging it, judging by some of the responses on here. Let's argue about that later or via DM. 

I personally don't have a position on anything as to our management etc., other than my concern that people are being paid a lot of money to disrupt our club, and our own supporters are jumping on board out of on-field frustration and not realising the greater damage that is being caused and not for the sake of our club.

My bigger issue is people being paid to post on here, and some of our supporters and the Dland admins somehow not caring about that. The construction stuff was just speculation, as was made clear, but is the most immediate link that jumps out between us and Hawthorn and timelines. Like I said, give me a few days, and I could provide some links. 

My main question is why one individual would spend multiple-millions of dollars to gain an unpaid board position? Just ego? We probably have similar feelings about Diamond Joe. So yes, I think some people are being paid a lot of money to actively disrupt our club, and they are doing that through the media and direct [censored]-stirring with our players. 

I don't know if Peter is paying them, or they are bankrolling Peter. Either way, it's not cool anymore. I want it to [censored] end, but mostly I just don't want that [censored] on our own fan forum. I come here for an escape. I left Australia due to divisive politics and tactics, and now the exact same [censored] is happening at the heart of our club. 

I was never impressed with Perts resume prior to joining us but met him once and he was pleasant. I congratulated him on his part in the 2021 Premiership as a 60 year plus supporter. Strangely he immediately moved the conversation to..and how good were our girls as if for a supporter who has experienced misery for decades cares equally for the men’s and women’s game.

 

8 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

What we have now is not leading to any of those things. The people running the club are incompetent. I agree that leaving it up to the members to vote isn't a recipe for success but the mob in there at the moment have burnt any goodwill they may have had. 2021 is in the past, the only premiership I care about is the next one and the current administration are proving they are not fit to lead us there.

You have no idea what is really going and a lot of it is linked to a certain poster and his and his families businesses and their interests.

Edited October 1, 2024Oct 1 by drysdale demon
more information

8 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

You have no idea what is really going and a lot of it is linked to a certain poster and his and his families businesses and their interests.

Why don't you tell us then

53 minutes ago, 48 Year Now said:

I was never impressed with Perts resume prior to joining us but met him once and he was pleasant. I congratulated him on his part in the 2021 Premiership as a 60 year plus supporter. Strangely he immediately moved the conversation to..and how good were our girls as if for a supporter who has experienced misery for decades cares equally for the men’s and women’s game.

 

Well , this is conclusive proof that Pert was on the grassy knoll in Dallas!

9 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

What we have now is not leading to any of those things. The people running the club are incompetent. I agree that leaving it up to the members to vote isn't a recipe for success but the mob in there at the moment have burnt any goodwill they may have had. 2021 is in the past, the only premiership I care about is the next one and the current administration are proving they are not fit to lead us there.

No, but a curated board empowered and installed by the AFL did give us a flag and a united club. 

1 hour ago, drysdale demon said:

You have no idea what is really going and a lot of it is linked to a certain poster and his and his families businesses and their interests.

so why not tell us who he is and his family and what his businesses are?

at the very least give us some generic hints

Thanks for all those long posts Skuitt. I'll keep my post brief.

1. I am not being paid to post on Demonland. Is that clear?

2. Your conspiracy theory about dark forces, construction companies, etc (and you seem to be making a clear link to particular organisations) is simply not true. The DL administrators can make their own calls - but I would be cautious about some of those accusations.

3. Many of your assertions are attributed to Lawrence. His contact details are readily available - and it seems he is coherent and quite enjoys talking to other MFC members - based on other posters comments on here. Send him an email and report back.

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

so why not tell us who he is and his family and what his businesses are?

at the very least give us some generic hints

Or at very least, some smoke signals 

2 hours ago, waynewussell said:

Well , this is conclusive proof that Pert was on the grassy knoll in Dallas!

Could be deep, could be meaningless.