10 minutes ago, Binmans PA said:

You do realise that Sydney not only have had the COLA salary cap bonuses, they've got academy accesses that has enabled them to grab pretty much all their elite players (captain Mills, Heeney, Gulden and Blakey are all academy).

Like imagine if we'd just needed a bunch of junk picks to pick up those 4.

Comparing the QLD and NSW list management builds to any other club is ridiculous and not comparing apples with apples.

As for Geelong and Collingwood, they've had at least 2 champions each in the 21st century that were father sons. That's luck. Not real list management. 

Compare that with us. We've had one in Viney.

The advantages to Sydney have been incredible, going right back to the 90’s. 
The League get moist when Sydney are winning 

the advantage is far too much, but until other Clubs rise against it, it will continue 

imagine Tony Lockett walks in Followed immediately by Lance Franklin!!! He was supposed to go to GW$, but the League were just happy in reality that he was in NSW. 

 

Jeelong are the Sleepers with all their land deals. These should all be declared 

1 minute ago, Norm Smith's Curse said:

Trades post flag:

2022:

- Jackson out for pick swap and pick 13

Incorrect, it was pick 13 plus Freo’s first and second round picks the following year.
 

We got pick 6 from Freo as well in the end and picked up Windsor. A big win given Jackson was out of contract and adamant to go home. 

12 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Gawn told Goodwin to leave Jackson on in the middle during the 3rd, whilst Max was on the Bench 

double post

Edited August 3, 20241 yr by Norm Smith's Curse
mistake

1 minute ago, Norm Smith's Curse said:

Yeah Ive heard this but different versions ranging from Max telling Goodwin to let Jackson stay out there as he was already going well, Gawn talking Goodwin into allowing Jackson to start and your version. 

You can hear the conversation during the 21 GF documentary 

1 minute ago, Jaded No More said:

Incorrect, it was pick 13 plus Freo’s first and second round picks the following year.
 

We got pick 6 from Freo as well in the end and picked up Windsor. A big win given Jackson was out of contract and adamant to go home. 

Sorry yes you are correct. My mistake.

List management: 

No back up ruck, no midfield depth, wasted list spots on Billings, McAdam, Hunter, Tomlinson’s 1000 year deal, Schache’s second year, Schache’s first year.

Fitness:

Petty and Oliver never fit and never got a chance to freshen up. Tracc done at mid year. Lever rushed back. Gawn playing very injury. 

Availability:

Started the year effectively -3 prime age players with Spargo, Gus and J Smith all out and not replaced. BBB a zero after the first month too.

You can argue the coach is to blame for some of it but any coach is reliant on fit and quality players and we’ve quickly run out of both.

If anything we started the year better than I imagined and raised expectations but this is exactly the year the summer and list management set us up for. 

If we get things right it should be a combination of 2019/2020 rolled in to one year and we can bounce back. 

18 hours ago, picket fence said:

Other than Gus name me a player who was pivotal to our team who was out? Melksham only slightly in this boat.

A bloke called Petracca

Another called Oliver

Another called May, who has played injured most of the year

Another called Lever who has trouble finding oponents

A Gawn who can play on one leg even if his heart/head should say stay home

Now Windsor

Pretty is still overcoming a chronic injury.

Apart from that ........................  allis good !!

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

No back up ruck, no midfield depth, wasted list spots on Billings, McAdam, Hunter, Tomlinson’s 1000 year deal, Schache’s second year, Schache’s first year.

Hunter was a good pickup, filled a hole in giving us a genuine wing opposite Langdon. Cruelled by injury this year, but for 2023 average 22+ disposals, a couple of clearances and a handful of I50's per game was more than decent. Same for Tomlinson, was very good until the knee injury.

Other trades were cheap/depth - but once again, most trades are for not-required players and players who can't get a game. This idea that there's a pool of first-22 players just waiting to be traded is just a myth.

As for midfield depth, perhaps, but we weren't to know that we'd lose Brayshaw, then Petracca, and that Oliver and Viney would be down due to injury and whatnot. Suspect also that there was an expectation that Sparrow would come on more than he has, even Laurie.

But you can only plan for so much, and no decent or even half-decent mid was going to come to Melbourne to be backup to a stacked midfield - which is what we had back in the 23 trade period. The reason even players like Jordan and Harmes left was because they couldn't get games.

Lots of Hindsight Harries on this and other threads.

Edited August 3, 20241 yr by bing181

1 hour ago, Norm Smith's Curse said:

So you are saying that Goodwin did not want Jackwon to replace Gawn in the third quarter? Has that been confirmed and verified?

Anything was possible, it was just an opinion that I have mulled over for a couple of years. 

2 hours ago, dimmy said:

A bloke called Petracca

Another called Oliver

Another called May, who has played injured most of the year

Another called Lever who has trouble finding oponents

A Gawn who can play on one leg even if his heart/head should say stay home

Now Windsor

Pretty is still overcoming a chronic injury.

Apart from that ........................  allis good !!

Joel Smith, who in spite of everything was our best forward in the 23 finals (though forward line was decimated in any case, even Fritsch wasn't right after his injury).

Sparrow - who has his detractors here, but would have at least given us some options and is still our best I50 kick.

Ben Brown - no reason why he couldn't have given us 40+ goals a year and been a foil for JVR if his body had held up. He's only 31, same age as (e.g.) Jeremy Cameron. And you look at players like Taylor Walker (34) or even Tom Hawkins (36), there should have been plenty more good footy there.

Salem: was a key to our 21 premiership, his experience, leadership and disposal smarts are sorely missed down back. And having hm playing (decently) would have freed up Judd for more midfield time.

Plus:

Viney not right/carrying a shoulder.

Bowey hasn't been right since his shoulder and missing so much footy.

The team/list is completely shot, regardless of what the injury list says.

Edited August 3, 20241 yr by bing181

1 hour ago, Demonsone said:

Longmire 1 x flag 3 x GF losses host of finals a lot more though 13 seasons vs 8, need to look deeper at their recruiting the Swans getting older players is excellent and highlights their quality recruiters/ list mgrs … not sure what Taylor & Lamb strategy has been since 21 as our u23s are great but scratch your head at the older players traded in and what we let go… Is this Goodwin doing???

Once not enuff for this post?

57 minutes ago, Norm Smith's Curse said:

Yeah Ive heard this but different versions ranging from Max telling Goodwin to let Jackson stay out there as he was already going well, Gawn talking Goodwin into allowing Jackson to start and your version. 

When we watched Sound the Alarm on camera Goody said to Max you go back on for 4-5 minutes and then we will send Jacko back on he is doing ok out there(or words to that effect).

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Gawn told Goodwin to leave Jackson on in the middle during the 3rd, whilst Max was on the Bench 

So What, doesn't mean didly squat.

B&F 2023.

2 missing

2 injured/well down on their best

Lever's the only one even close to 23 form.

8 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

So What, doesn't mean didly squat.

Except that he agreed and left him out there….

13 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Except that he agreed and left him out there….

Doesn't mean to say that Goodwin didn't want him there.

2 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

Doesn't mean to say that Goodwin didn't want him there.

You have missed the point completely 

 the right decision was made between Gawn and Goodwin

1 hour ago, Jaded No More said:

Because we rarely lose any player we want to keep, and that includes players who have strong family connections interstate. Every man and his dog would have lost their mind if Kosi left. He stayed categorically because of Goodwin. 
 

Longmire has been at Sydney a lot longer than Goody has been at Melbourne. He also inherited a premiership list, not cellar dwellers. Under Longmire Sydney won one singular flag and been smashed in more than one grand final. 
Yet he’s universally considered one of the best coaches in the game. 
Scott won a flag the year he became coach with virtually the same list that won two flags already. It then took him a decade to get another one. Again he’s considered one of the very best. How often did Geelong get done in prelims?
 

And let’s not forget the insane advantages that both Scott and Longmire have at their disposal, from home ground advantage to academy picks. 
If we got to play at Casey every week and had access to the best Victorian talent for peanuts every year, we too would be constantly pushing for flags under Goodwin. 

History will show that Goodwin has won a flag and got us two top 4 finishes in a 3 year period. For a variety of reasons this season has gone pear shaped. So of course we need to make changes and review both the list and the FD. But to suggest Goodwin needs to be thrown out is simply idiotic.

For anyone who wants him gone, please can you tell us who is available that will come in and do better? 

You think Collingwood and GWS supporters were asking the exact same thing when they got rid of Buckly and Leon Cameron?

You're making out as if there isn't anyone out there that would actually come in and potentially just give the list a rejuvenation with a whole new game plan that would suit the strengths of our playing list and new coaching structure in place.

How do you know there's not another Adam Kingsley, Sam Mitchell or Craig McRea out there?

I'm in the camp that Goodwin won't be getting sacked, but it's silly to think there aren't options out there that could potentially make use of the list we currently have.

I’m for a big honest review

Under the microscope

List management (trading)

All coaching lines

When are we getting a training base 

10 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

You have missed the point completely 

 the right decision was made between Gawn and Goodwin

Not what the poster was saying.

8 hours ago, Binmans PA said:

I hope this means we won't get a new best 22 four hundred thirty times before 2025.

Getting pretty over these best 22 posts….

2 hours ago, Demonsone said:

Longmire 1 x flag 3 x GF losses host of finals a lot more though 13 seasons vs 8, need to look deeper at their recruiting the Swans getting older players is excellent and highlights their quality recruiters/ list mgrs … not sure what Taylor & Lamb strategy has been since 21 as our u23s are great but scratch your head at the older players traded in and what we let go… Is this Goodwin doing???

They also get gifted top draft picks with their academy…. But let’s not present a balanced argument 

6 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

Not what the poster was saying.

He was asking what happened 

3 hours ago, Demonsone said:

They drafted well & we helped them with Grundy & Jordan .. based on our 2 yrs of bringing spuds in ..  it’s comical 

Please stop calling MFC players spuds. 

1 hour ago, Jaded No More said:

Incorrect, it was pick 13 plus Freo’s first and second round picks the following year.
 

We got pick 6 from Freo as well in the end and picked up Windsor. A big win given Jackson was out of contract and adamant to go home. 

The AFL is still finds ways of screwing us.

It laughable that those top draft pick contracts are only 2 year.

Should be 3+1 (team option). That way teams would have more leverage if these players want to go home early (JHF 👀).