You could see the warning signs early vs St Kilda.

Reminded me of similar issues when we are playing badly, a complete lack of focus in a bunch of areas that are important.( if you want to win games of footy).

We went back to guarding grass, all running backwards to try and stop the Saints on transition, no pressure on the ball carrier, defenders giving opponents 5-10 metres of latitude and the result was expected.

I thought Goodwin had turned a corner with actually tagging players, it stopped Viney and then Oliver being headless chickens that just see ball, get ball and actually have a more refined focus. It interrupted the opposition team and gave us better structure. Did he not respect the opposition to go away from this? Same with our forwards, Melksham and Petty seemed to play far better interrupting the oppos intercept defenders. Seems crazy we go away from what was working, negating opponents strengths.

Then you have Sinclair and Wanganeen Milera, clearly their best players that were given free reign all day. Odd tactics if you ask me. Did we just not respect the Saints and figured we would win on talent alone? It seems when we play better opposition's we have a firm plan, against lesser ones though I really feel the game plan goes out the window. Respect every opponent, every team has good players that are integral to their system.

Another issue that seems to resurface when we are off is that we have a heap of bees at the honeypot. We give opponents the outside and they invariably punish us for it.

I see these issues as even more important than rectifying our wayward goal kicking. That should be worked on every training session, especially our designated forwards.

20 hours ago, Roost it far said:

The game plan works fine. Yesterday was one of those days. We allowed them easy transition goals, something we simply can’t to happen this week. Yesterday I would have put Koz one out in the square, Windhager wasn’t just blanketing him he was racking up possessions that were hurting us. Wanganeen Milera needed a hard tag and we needed to kick 5 more goals. We were actually close to winning despite playing poorly. It’s compounded by our poor start and the tough draw over the next few weeks. Next week is all about bringing the heat. Oliver to Pendles, Sparrow to JDaicos and perhaps Viney to NDaicos??? Someone also has to make Sidebottom accountable. It’s going to be a stressful watch.

Why didnt we bring the heat on Sunday

Worst pressure of the year and Goodwin was smacked by Lyon again

Revert to style Kick it long Geesuss we dont seem to learn anything even if Goodwin talks about learnings

looked at replay lots of joggers on our side

8 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

You could see the warning signs early vs St Kilda.

Reminded me of similar issues when we are playing badly, a complete lack of focus in a bunch of areas that are important.( if you want to win games of footy).

We went back to guarding grass, all running backwards to try and stop the Saints on transition, no pressure on the ball carrier, defenders giving opponents 5-10 metres of latitude and the result was expected.

I thought Goodwin had turned a corner with actually tagging players, it stopped Viney and then Oliver being headless chickens that just see ball, get ball and actually have a more refined focus. It interrupted the opposition team and gave us better structure. Did he not respect the opposition to go away from this? Same with our forwards, Melksham and Petty seemed to play far better interrupting the oppos intercept defenders. Seems crazy we go away from what was working, negating opponents strengths.

Then you have Sinclair and Wanganeen Milera, clearly their best players that were given free reign all day. Odd tactics if you ask me. Did we just not respect the Saints and figured we would win on talent alone? It seems when we play better opposition's we have a firm plan, against lesser ones though I really feel the game plan goes out the window. Respect every opponent, every team has good players that are integral to their system.

Another issue that seems to resurface when we are off is that we have a heap of bees at the honeypot. We give opponents the outside and they invariably punish us for it.

I see these issues as even more important than rectifying our wayward goal kicking. That should be worked on every training session, especially our designated forwards.

great analysis wrong tactics on the day Should have manned up for periods and win some contests

we allowed them far too much space

This happens all to often so in my view Time to go Goody

9 minutes ago, jackaub said:

Why didnt we bring the heat on Sunday

Worst pressure of the year and Goodwin was smacked by Lyon again

Revert to style Kick it long Geesuss we dont seem to learn anything even if Goodwin talks about learnings

looked at replay lots of joggers on our side

The Alice Springs Junket…

3 hours ago, picket fence said:

Taken from later post but same thing applies so this is my take on this.

The role of a coach, correct me if I am wrong is to teach players a brand of footy that wins games and also to enhance their skill set. The fact that we have been so very poor over a number of years at goal kicking is testimony that whatever the club has done is not working. What it comes down to is using biomechanical breakdowns, analysing ball drop, leg and foot alignments and providing remediation to eliminate flaws in the way the ball is kicked. If a player who is considered an excellent field kick but then can't drill a goal, the problem then could be mental. Years ago in my Phys Ed teaching days I devised a set shot routine drill which enabled remediation to players who were missing elementary goals. I won't go into it here but I was used by several A grade Amateur clubs who went on to win premierships. I might add the success rates of these techniques were high. It helped that I personally was a magnificent kick for goal, I made a sunkick final ( Remember those ) but lost out to a guy that went on to play many VFL /AFL Games and was a noted "Prodigious" Kick. So in answering your question um yeah if I could teach it then and succeed why can't professionally well paid coaches do it???

Ah the ultimate swingman then?? For the record he booted 3 great goals a month ago after starting in the backline. FWIW The football dept DROPPED an in form T.Mac for an injury ravaged overated CHB in Lever. My Take is Petty also is MUCH better suited to playing back than forward as well.

Not having a dig at you here PF but I'd give you a few weeks as courtesy coach.

At least there would be no free rides.

Although you can't play Jeffo non stop.

I get we want Lever playing but it was tough on Tmac who gives so much to this club and wasn't playing poorly anyway.

Lever is too injury prone at this stage in his career so I'm not sure what we can do about him. But he didn't improve much v Saints when we really struggled down back in the first. At least May came good and as long as Lever keeps playing like this we can't afford to shift Turner. Why Petty is still forward is a mystery I'll never understand.

Edited June 3Jun 3 by Previously known as LITD.

30 minutes ago, jackaub said:

Why didnt we bring the heat on Sunday

Worst pressure of the year and Goodwin was smacked by Lyon again

Revert to style Kick it long Geesuss we dont seem to learn anything even if Goodwin talks about learnings

looked at replay lots of joggers on our side

We didn't and that was evident in the first and last quarter, looked like we were running in the mud at times.

Others have suggested loading which for mine is the most plausible theory although I don't think that excuses the first quarter.

I guess there's an argument to say don't load and risk losing a winnable game but we've got a pretty tough stretch of games pretty much for the rest of the year so I guess we're sticking with our yearly training schedule.

My main gripe was allowing them relatively easy transition goals, Butlers 3 from the goalsquare and not shifting Koz one out deep forward when it was clear he was being well beaten around the ball.

These loses happen every year and they're damn frustrating. It's why our poor start was so damning. Let's hope Collingwood are in the middle of a loading phase and we can run over the top of them.

Off topic, it has only been recently that Melksham has played well consistently.

I always thought he struggled to string good games together. I'm not sure if his shoulder troubled him but I hope he hasn't gone back to JM of old.

Don't get me wrong he had a great purple patch before he did his knee but prior to that I stand by my observation.

Having said that he's been a big difference this year, except last weekend.

He and KP are are now are key goal kickers. Saints tagged KP well and JM hurt his shoulder.

And I really think Sparrow offers the most as a forward in the Tracc or Harmes mould. Hard to match up on. Fast, strong and accurate.

In any case I'll keep shouting to move Petty back in defence.

It's from, Jvr, AJ, TS, Fritta, JM and my wish list....Turner.

That's a goal scoring combo there with KP isolated Fwd at times. Why the latter didn't happen v st kild is strange. Not like KP was having a day out.

Goody is just too slow to make changes. Always has been. Sometimes a good thing. More often not.

I'm pretty sure he won't be out coach next year. Ultimately as head coach our kicking errors must be upon on him. No learnings or excuses. The buck stops somewhere. Or should with him.

3 hours ago, Red and Blue Flame said:

Moving Turner to fwd line was ridiculous. How the f did they sub Johnson out? Have they not heard the saying "the big men don't get any smaller..."?!?!

Not only that, Petty went back? FFS

Turner has been our best defender in the last 4 weeks...

The very move that some posters on here have been advocating.

If he hadn't tried this, there is no doubt Goody would have been criticised for being inflexible and not making any changes.

Damned if you do and all that.

50 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

You could see the warning signs early vs St Kilda.

Reminded me of similar issues when we are playing badly, a complete lack of focus in a bunch of areas that are important.( if you want to win games of footy).

We went back to guarding grass, all running backwards to try and stop the Saints on transition, no pressure on the ball carrier, defenders giving opponents 5-10 metres of latitude and the result was expected.

I thought Goodwin had turned a corner with actually tagging players, it stopped Viney and then Oliver being headless chickens that just see ball, get ball and actually have a more refined focus. It interrupted the opposition team and gave us better structure. Did he not respect the opposition to go away from this? Same with our forwards, Melksham and Petty seemed to play far better interrupting the oppos intercept defenders. Seems crazy we go away from what was working, negating opponents strengths.

Then you have Sinclair and Wanganeen Milera, clearly their best players that were given free reign all day. Odd tactics if you ask me. Did we just not respect the Saints and figured we would win on talent alone? It seems when we play better opposition's we have a firm plan, against lesser ones though I really feel the game plan goes out the window. Respect every opponent, every team has good players that are integral to their system.

Another issue that seems to resurface when we are off is that we have a heap of bees at the honeypot. We give opponents the outside and they invariably punish us for it.

I see these issues as even more important than rectifying our wayward goal kicking. That should be worked on every training session, especially our designated forwards.

Started complacent and finished more so. Still there to be won in the last ten minutes but we just stopped. No leadership outside of a few and it was a sad sight to see given how much was at stake. Just our season. And given how hard we worked and played to turn things around, I don't get why we played the way we did, coached the way we did and then threw in the tell when we were only three goals down.

Probably our worst game for the year.

And I'm not alone calling for the end of NT games .

Max has always been a barometer of our games. And he wasn't too bad but unfortunately Oliver is now one that is a telling player. I don't like to criticize him , so I'll just point out, when he is at his best, it makes a huge difference.

Fritta tried but had no support in an injured Melksham, a casual KP who was well tagged and Petty who is still out of his depth as a fwd. After so many games there, it's time to move him back.

Alas I fear unless we can beat the pies it's all over. Still a glimmer of hope but like north Melbourne you can't afford to drop these ones.

You have to question Goodys effort v the saints. Moved Turner too late. Could have moved Kp or CO fwd. Laurie isn't a great Sub and Lever isn't ready.

I really wouldn't mind seeing Goody throw the odd tantrum and drag players more often. I don't know why but it would at least make me feel better when I constantly see goal kicking like that.

Edited June 3Jun 3 by Previously known as LITD.

2 hours ago, ElDiablo14 said:

What about bring TMac in, Lever out.

Then Petty - May - Disco back line.

TMac to our fwd line?

Dont mind that at all!

51 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Very seriously, I'd sell my greatest asset to get Jordan Lewis coaching the Dees, immediately.

We already lost Yze, see us lose any other promising young coach due to inaction.

35 minutes ago, Previously known as LITD. said:

Started complacent and finished more so. Still there to be won in the last ten minutes but we just stopped. No leadership outside of a few and it was a sad sight to see given how much was at stake. Just our season. And given how hard we worked and played to turn things around, I don't get why we played the way we did, coached the way we did and then threw in the tell when we were only three goals down.

Probably our worst game for the year.

And I'm not alone calling for the end of NT games .

Max has always been a barometer of our games. And he wasn't too bad but unfortunately Oliver is now one that is a telling player. I don't like to criticize him , so I'll just point out, when he is at his best, it makes a huge difference.

Fritta tried but had no support in an injured Melksham, a casual KP who was well tagged and Petty who is still out of his depth as a fwd. After so many games there, it's time to move him back.

Alas I fear unless we can beat the pies it's all over. Still a glimmer of hope but like north Melbourne you can't afford to drop these ones.

You have to question Goodys effort v the saints. Moved Turner too late. Could have moved Kp or CO fwd. Laurie isn't a great Sub and Lever isn't ready.

I really wouldn't mind seeing Goody throw the odd tantrum and drag players more often. I don't know why but it would at least make me feel better when I constantly see goal kicking like that.

I still don't understand the Laurie situation.

Good for VFL, not impactful at AFL.

Then we use him as a sub, but offers no X factor. Gets dropped next week.

Rinse and repeat.

Interesting watch as I predicted once we had another loss, several posters who’d been hiatus would be back straight away and there you have it.

And what do they provide any insight into tactical moves, cutting off the source to the the run, or cause of turnover, loaded F50, lack of pressure being an obvious missing trait from the previous weeks

Absolutely not- they are geniuses who would move magnets from D50 to F50

Comedy gold

Here’s the thing

Rebuild/Rejig whatever you want to call it happening on the run

Game plan changes have been there to see, glimpses into, quarters into 3 quarters into some consistency.

Younger players becoming more important to our ball movement, they will have poor games get closer attention and learn to adapt, it happens.

AJ is a necessary stop gap, I suspect he won’t be part of the side when we start to step forward for a decent tilt, I suspect JVR still has time and not giving up on Jeffo just yet.

Disco is a back man and going to be a very good one, aside from occasional swings forward that’s where he stays

Clarrie showed the other day he still has a long way to go as does Kossie, because the Windhager tag is going to come more frequently. The change to the midfield is happening

It’s still a bumpy road ahead but at least we’re committed to change

1 hour ago, Previously known as LITD. said:

Started complacent and finished more so. Still there to be won in the last ten minutes but we just stopped. No leadership outside of a few and it was a sad sight to see given how much was at stake. Just our season. And given how hard we worked and played to turn things around, I don't get why we played the way we did, coached the way we did and then threw in the tell when we were only three goals down.

Probably our worst game for the year.

And I'm not alone calling for the end of NT games .

Max has always been a barometer of our games. And he wasn't too bad but unfortunately Oliver is now one that is a telling player. I don't like to criticize him , so I'll just point out, when he is at his best, it makes a huge difference.

Alas I fear unless we can beat the pies it's all over. Still a glimmer of hope but like north Melbourne you can't afford to drop these ones.

You have to question Goodys effort v the saints. Moved Turner too late. Could have moved Kp or CO fwd. Laurie isn't a great Sub and Lever isn't ready.

I really wouldn't mind seeing Goody throw the odd tantrum and drag players more often. I don't know why but it would at least make me feel better when I constantly see goal kicking like that

1 hour ago, Previously known as LITD. said:

Fritta tried but had no support in an injured Melksham, a casual KP who was well tagged and Petty who is still out of his depth as a fwd. After so many games there, it's time to move him back.

Hmm on Fritta, I thought was our best player in that 1st quarter, barely saw him do anything in the next 3 though, even though the ball was in our f 50 plenty enough to impact in some way. On this year I think I would be trading him. His effort is so sporadic. Effort to me is a non negotiable. He has the talent.

Petty should be on the best intercept defender and told to stop him, would go long way to stop the easy rebounds, and as we all know he can defend quite well. Offence will come off the back of that.

On 02/06/2025 at 11:21, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Lots of posts telling us what's wrong - very few solutions. That's because it is such a CF.

I will give you solutions, so then, I will shut up:

>get a new kicking coach tonight!

>send JVR forward along with May

>send HeartBreaker Petty to backline along with Disco and Lever and McDonald (drop Lever)

>send Kossi to anti-tag school, actually, you have to run harder Kos away from those leaches

12 minutes ago, Anti-Saint said:

I will give you solutions, so then, I will shut up:

>get a new kicking coach tonight!

>send JVR forward along with May

>send HeartBreaker Petty to backline along with Disco and Lever and McDonald (drop Lever)

>send Kossi to anti-tag school, actually, you have to run harder Kos away from those leaches

May forward would really be an exciting experiment. I think I put in a thread once and I was surprised how many were against it.

Surely worth a try. We have the players to cover him. And I think he would be much better than Petty

I've been hoping for a forward that has strength through his entire core. Someone like Melksham but bigger. I imagine the old ff who stands strong in a pack and marks. Not easily jostled away. Petts has many skills but I'd argue he gets pushed out of the comp too easy.

I wanted to ask peeps if they think Goody is often too slow to make changes during a game?

And stubborn in reversing previous calls. And not one to take risks. Maybe May is a good example. But v the Saints , I thought he could have moved Turner earlier or isolated KP fwd.

Didn't seem to do much for me.

I've had strange thinking of keeping May back with Tmac and Disco. But throwing Lever fwd with Petty and Friita.

Sounds absurd, probably is.

Just getting maverick with the magnets.

What we have isn't working well. Need to mix up forward. Not convinced that either JVR or Jeffo are AFL solutions.

4 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

I've had strange thinking of keeping May back with Tmac and Disco. But throwing Lever fwd with Petty and Friita.

Sounds absurd, probably is.

Just getting maverick with the magnets.

What we have isn't working well. Need to mix up forward. Not convinced that either JVR or Jeffo are AFL solutions.

It wasn’t working on the weekend but what about the previous weeks, we had players in unison with ball movement, I’m very careful of not throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I’m more looking towards the long term then KB

Lever’s weaknesses are he’s not good 1v1 nor at ground level or moving laterally. I think he goes back to Casey,

I’d look more to May, Tmac and Turner back and JVR/Petty forward as two talls, Melksham if fit to prevent Howe intercepting, Fritsch the higher up the ground conduit and Viney, Sparrow and a rotating mid in Kossie or Trac as the other forwards

Tall rotation of Gawn, Petty, JVR & Melksham

Small rotation Fritsch, Sparrow, Viney, Trac and Kossie with the last two spending the majority of the game in the middle

B. Tmac May Mcvee

HB.Salem Turner Bowey

C.Langdon Rivers Langford

HF. Sparrow JVR Fritsch

F. Melksham Petty Chandler

R. Gawn, Trac, Kossie

I/C. Lindsay, Windsor, Oliver, Viney

Sub. Sharp

27 minutes ago, Pennant St Dee said:

It wasn’t working on the weekend but what about the previous weeks, we had players in unison with ball movement, I’m very careful of not throwing out the baby with the bathwater. I’m more looking towards the long term then KB

Lever’s weaknesses are he’s not good 1v1 nor at ground level or moving laterally. I think he goes back to Casey,

I’d look more to May, Tmac and Turner back and JVR/Petty forward as two talls, Melksham if fit to prevent Howe intercepting, Fritsch the higher up the ground conduit and Viney, Sparrow and a rotating mid in Kossie or Trac as the other forwards

Tall rotation of Gawn, Petty, JVR & Melksham

Small rotation Fritsch, Sparrow, Viney, Trac and Kossie with the last two spending the majority of the game in the middle

B. Tmac May Mcvee

HB.Salem Turner Bowey

C.Langdon Rivers Langford

HF. Sparrow JVR Fritsch

F. Melksham Petty Chandler

R. Gawn, Trac, Kossie

I/C. Lindsay, Windsor, Oliver, Viney

Sub. Sharp

Lever is actually very good at knowing where the ball is. Actually a very good asset for a forward. You can intercept just as well forward as you can back. It would introduce an interesting dynamic into fwd incursions ... imho.

It's only an idea . His time might be getting close to "up" down back. As is...tbh...May

We still need to think outside the box. The box is getting beaten.

2 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Lever is actually very good at knowing where the ball is. Actually a very good asset for a forward. You can intercept just as well forward as you can back. It would introduce an interesting dynamic into fwd incursions ... imho.

It's only an idea . His time might be getting close to "up" down back. As is...tbh...May

We still need to think outside the box. The box is getting beaten.

If we wanted to think outside the box, Stevem May should have been thrown forward years ago. Yes, I know hes an all Australian full back. Mcintosh, Gehrig, Neitz, Pavlich. We have have substandard forward talent and no genuine contested marking kpf players for 6 years since JH (BB was def above average and it was enough). Hindsight is everything but i do wonder if May had been thrown forward at times in 22 and 23 (and succeeded) would we have developed our back line differently and had greater 'forward connection' After Max he was and is by far our best contested mark. Drafted as a forward. Can think of more than a few games that would have been handy. Would have it been net negative or positive. Dunno. Wish I did though.

Edited June 3Jun 3 by Jjrogan

Forward entries still look miles off being fixed. Still doesn't look like there is any real system to how we kick inside 50.

34 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

Forward entries still look miles off being fixed. Still doesn't look like there is any real system to how we kick inside 50.

System ?? We don't need no stiiiiinkinggggg SYSTEM !!

7 hours ago, beelzebub said:

System ?? We don't need no stiiiiinkinggggg SYSTEM !!

Correct.
Just gotta get it inside 50 and the rest magically takes care of itself.

On 03/06/2025 at 20:04, beelzebub said:

I've had strange thinking of keeping May back with Tmac and Disco. But throwing Lever fwd with Petty and Friita.

Sounds absurd, probably is.

Just getting maverick with the magnets.

What we have isn't working well. Need to mix up forward. Not convinced that either JVR or Jeffo are AFL solutions.

Your esteemed opinion on May forward?

I think " may" have asked you before but can't remember.

Surely worth a try.

I really don't think Petty is the answer forward.

He hasn't kicked many goals at all.

On 02/06/2025 at 20:25, Dr. Gonzo said:

It wasn't just the goal kicking though. I think it was a combination of goal kicking, player effort and coaching.

I will give Goodwin credit for moving Turner forward at 3/4 time but I would've liked to have seen it happen before halftime.

The intensity was off from the get go. The players were not on for the game and it showed. Everything suffered as a result. It is still the same old inconsistency problems that we have suffered for years. Our system was unable to cover for it either, which is understandable.

It amazes me how some teams like Collingwood and to a lesser extent Geelong are able to show up just about every week. I dont think we have enough leaders / players demanding high standards gameday and that are willing to lead by example.

24 minutes ago, Previously known as LITD. said:

Your esteemed opinion on May forward?

I think " may" have asked you before but can't remember.

Surely worth a try.

I really don't think Petty is the answer forward.

He hasn't kicked many goals at all.

Well, lots of things are worth a try.

My thoughts of May forward are I have none really.

I'm aware he knows what to dobas he was a fwd once before settling into one of the comps best backs. It's possibly more my reticence of fixing something that ain't particularly broke. Our defence is generally OK. Well it was, before it was 'fixed' . I was a little dubious that bringing a suspect Lever into the team and displacing Tmac would result in a beneficial upgrade. It hasn't.

My preference is to have May, Tmac and Disco hold down the big defender roles.

No one else really does May's job quite as well as he does.

But...let's roll with your idea

May up forward.. then begs with whom ?

I've really rewritten JVRs card atm as not being quite good enough.

Might you want Petty back and Disco fwd ?

A backline comprising Petty, Lever, Tmac, and Salem ?

Tbh.. I'm past caring. We might as well raffle the magnets.

Just to finish this post.... my rationale re Ricky pushing forward is he's out of sorts at back atm. So don't have him there. His forte is reading the flight, picking off the ball and making decisions ( generally very good ) quickly. He can normally find a team mate with a quick disposal. We [censored] around a lot in the f arc. Someone who can get ball, move ball to advantage quickly is what we've missed for a long time.

Look at games we've been most dangerous in. The ball moves quickly and fluidly into the 50 and directed to advantage. I.e.. someone sees someone else and ball is relayed quickly without hesitation.

What do we do all to often... we prop.. just long enough to kill the ball.

We need to break this cycle.

But , hey, cast the runes, mix it up and it might all be for nought if no bastard can split the sticks anyway.

Go us...

Roll on 26