1 hour ago, Adam The God said:

You conspicuously left this out as it didn't suit your narrative...

No not at all

What happened in Rounds 2-5??

Don’t tell me what i am thinking….

2 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Exactly what I was about to say the notion we turned this around in a flight back from Adelaide, a recovery session, 1 main session, a captain’s run and a few review and strategy meetings is laughable.

There’s a lot who don’t understand the background work which goes in over a sustained period to implement a plan and break ingrained habits is huge

Just watched the Wednesday night First Crack.

At the top of the show, Montagna's 'first crack' was the Demons and pushing back on the ridiculous notion that something magic happened after our loss to the bombers to turn our season around.

(@Demonland any chance you could put the clip in this thread?)

He showed a bunch of key stats comparing round 1-6 and 6-11 to make the point the game plan and method has not changed and that our wins are a result of more successfully implementing the game plan (a game plan David King correctly noted we began developing in 2024).

He noted what has changed is our pressure and contest which has resulted in increased turnovers, which in turn has driven higher scores (he said we averaged 60 points per game rounds 1 to 6 and from round 6-12, 97 points)

Edited Wednesday at 11:263 days by binman

1 hour ago, binman said:

Exactly. Does my head in - particularly when such ignorance is the starting point for criticisms of goody and the club.

Just one tiny example of how long it takes to implement new strategies is our use of long handballs and handball chains.

I noted on the 2024 preseason pod that in our practice match against the tigers at Casey we seemed to be practising using really long forward handballs and handball chains. We used both a little bit in the 2024 season but they weren't a feature of our method.

Track watchers noted we were practising long forward handballs and handball chains this preseason, which I noticed too in the 2 preseason sessions i went to.

And now, after 2 full preseasons of practice, long forward handballs and high risk handball chains have become a key feature of our method.

And the shorter/shallower looks into the fwd line - you could see it in spurts last year as you say.

Habits are hard to break and harder to form - the notion this turns on a dime is as laughable as those Carlton supporters who think they can do the same. Unless you have been hammering that Plan A gameplan for 12+ months, nothing is suddenly going to ‘click’ across 23 young people trying to execute their roles.

It’s edifying where we are at now - frustrating it took to the heartbreaking end to 2023 to make us change. But that is a story from a time long ago in a galaxy far away…

25 minutes ago, binman said:

Just watched the Wednesday night First Crack.

At the top of the show, Montagna's 'first crack' was the Demons and pushing back on the ridiculous notion that something magic happened after our loss to the bombers to turn our season around.

(@Demonland any chance you could put the clip in this thread?)

He showed a bunch of key stats comparing round 1-6 and 6-11 to make the point the game plan and method has not changed and that our wins are a result of more successfully implementing the game plan (a game plan David King correctly noted we began developing in 2024).

He noted what has changed is our pressure and contest which has resulted in increased turnovers, which in turn has driven higher scores (he said we averaged 60 points per game rounds 1 to 6 and from round 6-12, 97 points)

Actually there was one interesting tweak, one that is perhaps a little counter intuitive given the improvement in our scoring.

In the last six games we are using the corridor a lot less.

26 minutes ago, binman said:

Actually there was one interesting tweak, one that is perhaps a little counter intuitive given the improvement in our scoring.

In the last six games we are using the corridor a lot less.

We’re using it but we regularly change lanes with 45s, lateral handball and fwd handball to hit the outside player and then if available will hit another 45 or a player ar30-40m out inside F50

8 hours ago, picket fence said:

We haven't done anything yet! If we Don't make the 8 He STILL should be moved on at seasons end. No if's or buts!

judging by the dislikes on your post dont think many agree with you

1 minute ago, Tracca said:

judging by the dislikes on your post dont think many agree with you

I NEVER give a fat rats clacker, regarding popular opinion and the dislikes???? Pft even less, mate wise up.This is an open forum and EVERYONE is entitled to an opinion! Even me!

That First Crack vision was really insightful. Looks like the ANb role has been democratised and platooned with Langdon the headline act.

and it is a way for Oliver to tic-tac with CP5 and get CB attendances for Rivers with Oliver shadow boxing as a forward to release Petracca.

I am sure this is a evolution that isn’t hard to think up, but to get buy in from established stars to do this is always impressive to me..

34 minutes ago, rpfc said:

That First Crack vision was really insightful. Looks like the ANb role has been democratised and platooned with Langdon the headline act.

and it is a way for Oliver to tic-tac with CP5 and get CB attendances for Rivers with Oliver shadow boxing as a forward to release Petracca.

I am sure this is a evolution that isn’t hard to think up, but to get buy in from established stars to do this is always impressive to me..

I reckon our stars learned to be team players in 2020, and because they got a flag ajd 3 straight top 4 finishes doing it, when Goody asks them to do it again, they nod.

I reckon its pretty easy INTENSITY!!!!!!!

As the team realised we would need to win

they all began to do what they were being told

7 hours ago, Adam The God said:

IMV, this is a ridiculous position. We didn't change our game style after the Essendon loss. We just got better at implementing what we were practising all pre season.

Plenty of posters who watched pre season training closely have started to say that our ball movement in game now resembles our ball movement in pre season.

The idea that they've changed the game style in one week really just shows a lack of understanding of the modern game.

Then why don't the stats support this? Surely we would have seen some of this in the earlier rounds.

51 minutes ago, rpfc said:

That First Crack vision was really insightful. Looks like the ANb role has been democratised and platooned with Langdon the headline act.

and it is a way for Oliver to tic-tac with CP5 and get CB attendances for Rivers with Oliver shadow boxing as a forward to release Petracca.

I am sure this is a evolution that isn’t hard to think up, but to get buy in from established stars to do this is always impressive to me..

The other stat mentioned in that clip was that we are No.2 for marks. We see that stat play out in a lot of short kicks (which the punters tend to get a bit frustrated with) but when the time comes to bite off the 45 kick, or give the overlap hand-ball or go long to a contest we are brave and we now have some beautiful kickers - our last goal was a little case study of it - May's kick to Langford (doesn't break stride) hits Melksham who then nails it. Three "works of art".

The new game plan was built pre-season on McVee and Windsor (with Salem and Bowey chiming in) providing the drive and accurate delivery off half-back. I still don't think it (the role) has quite clicked for Windsor (who had that infection issue) and McVee had his hammy setback, but as they play this system more and more , it will be a pleasure to watch. Gun kickers on the wings - Langford and Lindsay - provide the luxury of using Langdon's running capacity in a different way - and he provides incredible link-up. Please though Lingers, give it to our gun kickers....

The last piece of the puzzle will be a confident JVR back in the team. We got a nice glimpse of improvement out at Preston on Saturday. JVR now needs to knock the door down - might be a few more weeks....AJ will do just nicely until that time arrives.

2 hours ago, binman said:

Actually there was one interesting tweak, one that is perhaps a little counter intuitive given the improvement in our scoring.

In the last six games we are using the corridor a lot less.

I love it when you talk to yourself. 😀

7 hours ago, Adam The God said:

Not true at all. I don't believe you went to the GWS game. Our brand was clearly on show in that game.

Over Rounds 2-5, we showed brief glimpses in otherwise limp performances. Almost like we'd been smashed on the training track...

5 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Exactly what I was about to say the notion we turned this around in a flight back from Adelaide, a recovery session, 1 main session, a captain’s run and a few review and strategy meetings is laughable.

There’s a lot who don’t understand the background work which goes in over a sustained period to implement a plan and break ingrained habits is huge

Again, the stats don't support this. A significant shift in our ball movement, defensive pressure, territory and forward half intercepts all started from round 6 onwards. I find it amusing that Binman questions this when the first thing on the Freo episode of the podcast he mentions the change in our pressure rating which has clearly gone through the roof since round 6.

I'm not saying they weren't working on it all summer, but I am saying that the players clearly weren't executing it properly.

Take our forward handballs as an example. We basically had no forward handball game before the Freo game. Suddenly, it's brought out and it's obvious for all to see.

In round 1-4 Oliver had close to a 50-50 kick-to-handball ratio. In round 6 he had 20 handballs and only 5 kicks. Do you think he just woke up that morning and decided to handball more that game instead of getting direction from the coaches?

Edited Wednesday at 14:082 days by At the break of Gawn

15 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Then why don't the stats support this? Surely we would have seen some of this in the earlier rounds.

The data does support this. We've been one of the top transition sides all year. Now we're better at scoring from transition chains.

1 minute ago, Adam The God said:

The data does support this. We've been one of the top transition sides all year. Now we're better at scoring from transition chains.

Even Carlton are in the top handful of teams who transition well from the D50 to their forward 50 but are 18th for scores per inside 50. I'm not sure you can really hang your hat on that stat when it's not a complete picture of ball movement in regards to scoring.

Also, most of our scores are coming from forward half intercepts, not via the back half. The added defensive pressure, the tackles inside 50, the way we're changing angles on entry are all contributing. Clearly there was an emphasis on forward 50 tackling pressure too from round 6 onwards. It's been off the charts since the Freo game.

Edited Wednesday at 14:042 days by At the break of Gawn

8 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Even Carlton are in the top handful of teams who transition well from the D50 to their forward 50 but are 18th for scores per inside 50. I'm not sure you can really hang your hat on that stat when it's not a complete picture of ball movement in regards to scoring.

Also, most of our scores are coming from forward half intercepts, not via the back half. The added defensive pressure, the tackles inside 50, the way we're changing angles on entry are all contributing. Clearly there was an emphasis on forward 50 tackling pressure too from round 6 onwards. It's been off the charts since the Freo game.

You said we had a fundamental change in our method in one week, when evidence like aggressive forward handballing and faster transition was evident from Round 1.

Let's just admit you [censored] the bed on this one and move on.

6 hours ago, Pennant St Dee said:

Just stop Swyl massive time and effort went into the changes from pre season

they were disgraceful but the glimpses were there and we kept telling posters they were there, but you went with your standard

I have higher expectations than others nonsense

What’s so hard about Running with the Ball Carrier to give options?

It’s not a revolutionary change

But the white flag went up in Rounds 2-5, you might not like it , but it is what happened.

Nonsense indeed…

Edited Wednesday at 14:462 days by Sir Why You Little

2 hours ago, picket fence said:

I NEVER give a fat rats clacker, regarding popular opinion and the dislikes???? Pft even less, mate wise up.This is an open forum and EVERYONE is entitled to an opinion! Even me!

Even you....heaven forbid. I know I would feel like a lost soul in purgatory.

7 hours ago, Adam The God said:

I reckon our stars learned to be team players in 2020, and because they got a flag ajd 3 straight top 4 finishes doing it, when Goody asks them to do it again, they nod.

Players that don't do what goody ask them to do should be shipped out

7 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

A significant shift in our ball movement, defensive pressure, territory and forward half intercepts all started from round 6 onwards.

Application of learning & skill development takes time to show up.

All others have been saying is that it's something we've been working on for a while.

From round 6 we've started to see the results of that work break through.

The great jazz saxophonist Michael Brecker talked about the frustration of practicing a new skill but not seeing the results on the bandstand.

Then 6 months later it would start to show through.

It was as though it came from out of nowhere.

The significant shift might have shown up from round 6 but it was the culmination of a lot of hard work started way before then.

Surely that makes sense.

2 hours ago, rjay said:

All others have been saying is that it's something we've been working on for a while.

From round 6 we've started to see the results of that work break through.

The great jazz saxophonist Michael Brecker talked about the frustration of practicing a new skill but not seeing the results on the bandstand.

Then 6 months later it would start to show through.

It was as though it came from out of nowhere.

The significant shift might have shown up from round 6 but it was the culmination of a lot of hard work started way before then.

Surely that makes sense.

I agree that does make sense, but I also get the sense there was some attitude shifts from round 6 onwards. Pressure and the manic tackling inside 50s are all effort based. As Goodwin talked about, there seemed to have been a lack of focus on the things we value defensively. That was switched back on from round 6 which has complemented other parts of our game. It would have been nice for that shift to have happened earlier because being 0-5 gives us so little room to make a really good run for finals.

Edited Thursday at 00:282 days by At the break of Gawn

Goody was still copping it up until round 6, he had kept repeating the same mantra we are process driven, one week at a time, we are transitioning from our old game plan, it takes time and practice . When it finally clicked against Freo I mentioned on here that I saw the change but didn’t understand what caused the massive change. Fortunately there are some DLanders who grasped the changes early, Binman, Adam, Roost it, DD, Pennant and a number of other posters that could articulate the changes that saw our numbers change so dramatically. Now the whole football world are trying to dissect and understand what happened post 1-5, but rjay summed it up well, practice practice and more practice then it becomes second nature and appears effortless.

11 hours ago, picket fence said:

I NEVER give a fat rats clacker, regarding popular opinion and the dislikes???? Pft even less, mate wise up.This is an open forum and EVERYONE is entitled to an opinion! Even me!

The thing that frustrates me with you Picket is I’m never quite sure where you stand!😀

17 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

but I also get the sense there was some attitude shifts from round 6 onwards. Pressure and the manic tackling inside 50s are all effort based. As Goodwin talked about, there seemed to have been a lack of focus on the things we value defensively. That was switched back on from round 6 which has complemented other parts of our game.

Agree, it was frustrating in the early games.

I wonder what changed?

Just thinking aloud, it could of been the culmination of a few things.

Maybe Goodwin gave them an old fashioned rocket.

I doubt he would have given an old fashioned bake but he would have made his thoughts known.

The game clicking into place...concentration on the specifics of the plan previously meant not enough on basics like pressure.

Getting some flow into the game.

Fitness & form...The Clarry move whilst pilloried by many in the media seems to have been a master stroke for one.

A bit of a rocket in dropping Fritsch & JVR putting players on notice.

It's never just one thing.