Time to go Goody?

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,588]

On 03/08/2024 at 19:34, Roost it far said:

Personally I’d love the club to bring in Jason Akermanis as an assistant. Success follows him. 

Surely this is trolling

[layzie 33,716]

16 hours ago, middleagedemon said:

It's the classic goal-post shifting that is the more hilarious thing from Binman and the like.

It's now fatigue apparently!!! Fatigue! 

I mean, give us a break! 

How did fatigue go for us when we managed to peg GWS back in that last quarter? Was it fatigue in the first quarter alone against the Bulldogs? How are we measuring this exactly? 

You can't take that bunch seriously because there'll be an excuse that becomes 'The Reason' for our failings for that given season. Which is utterly ridiculous given these are commonalities ALL teams go through and just covers over underlying issues that have existed for too long. 

Injury and fatigue hey. Wow. 

How you measure these as a supporter depends entirely on what level of bias one holds for their team. For Binman and co, the dees  always seem to be victim of such cruelties, more so than any other side in the AFL! That's because this particular group of dlanders have held the long-standing and unequivocal belief that we are the best team in it, we have undoubtedly the best game-plan and the most talented list. 

If you vehemently believe the above to be true, you're no doubt going to throw up one or two excuses as 'The Reason' for a failed season. Which is exactly what this crew have done since the 2022 finals campaign, all the while completely ignoring a set of underlying issues that have plagued us even throughout our 2021 home and away year. 

Along with the obvious disadvantages that all teams face every year, why don't we look at some of the contributing factors that have remained with us as a side for far too long now. And are the reason that all supporters get so frustrated with Goodwin. 

1: Jackson replacement/genuine Gawn support. Why is it that Goodwin defenders cannot seem to handle criticism of the failings in this area? It's been a significant fail given the way we have relied on him and provided next to no support. If dlanders are happy to throw up the injury excuse when he's out or when 'carrying' injury, how do you not point the finger at Goodwin and co for providing no support in a game where injury is bound to happen to anyone at any time? Especially so when part of your game-plan has been built around Max Gawn. 

2: Midfield balance/attribute diversity I've banged on about this for I don't know how many years and it has plagued us in just about every game in which a team brings heat to our midfield. How much longer will it continue? Look no further than the first possession that we had on Friday night against the Dogs. Viney racing for a ball in dispute, gets to it and has two free Melbourne players if he manages to hook a dominant hand handball over his right shoulder. But no, he sees red, handballs blindly forward straight to a doggies player who takes possession. That kind of play is emblematic of our entire midfield unit when any serious heat is applied. And it happened all night. We have a contested heavy, ball winning heavy midfield unit who all lack in the same area when under pressure. Composure and disposal. 

It is that simple. We win the ball in tight and give it up almost immediately when the heat is applied. And every single side that have a half decent midfield know this when they play us. As the game goes on, the more desperate our mids become to win a clearance/contest and the more we swarm to the same ball and man with ball, in part because these mids have been 'ball winning' players since they were kids and desperation kicks in. The commentary around our lack of pace/run and the 'fatigue' comments are actually by-products of what is happening in close. We give the ball up that easily when heat is applied, it makes the opposition look quicker, fitter and like they have more players on the ground. When opposition half-backs could see the standard set by their mids on fri night, they knew they could have a field day by rolling the dice and streaming off their men, getting that call right the majority of the night due to how easily we were giving the ball up in close if we were getting our hands on it. (Which for much of the night we weren't even doing). So then it's two fold. You've got oppo half-backs playing their own game of footy as their mids are just consistently either winning first possession themselves and handballing out of congestion and then to running half backs, or they knew if we were to get first possession, we'd likely cough it up thanks to the the heat their team mates were applying in close and our lack of composure and disposal came to the fore. 

When the dogs bring heat like that, they look a million bucks because they are one of a few clubs who have mids who excel at feeding a ball out of a contest with a quick, smart handball under pressure. Libba and Bont specifically are specialists at this. Even Treloar has better hands in close than most if not all our mids. 

Now, clearance altogether has two parts to it. The one I listed above and the second being our actual setup at both centre bounce and stoppage. Both our positioning and lack of connectedness with Gawn has been wildly inconsistent for too long. Another issue that Binman and his brigade seem to ignore when they say things like, 'oh well, we don't place a premium on clearances anyway'. 

How about nah. Clearance gives you complete ascendency if you get it right. End of the third Q grand final? 

3: Forward setup/personnel. 

Again. How long? Let's go back to last year's finals and those who basically said inaccuracy cost us the flag. That might be so, but that has been in part down to game-plan and personnel. And inaccuracy has cost us in plenty of other games over the last few years. I'm not sure what Goodwin expects when he plays two key defenders as key forwards and one young kid who is still learning how to be a forward at AFL level. (JVR played a lot of defence as an under-aged kid and I don't classify him as a classical key forward).

Our inability to land one has been telling. We have a make-shift forward line that consistently looks like a dogs breakfast with little to no predictability in the way it moves. At the very least, Ben Brown was a straight line ball leader, which created vacuums of space for specialist forwards like Fritsch or Kosi to creep into. Goodwin has seemed happy to continue to play 'competitors' which means our kids are again happy to bomb away into the forward 50 with little to no intentionality. 

This problem also goes hand-in-hand with our midfield issue which I highlighted above. We have average ball user through our midfield when under no pressure and they're poor when under pressure. 

So, what will it take for us to land a specialist forwards assistant coach and perhaps a complete re-think of the type of players we want to have inside 50? Are we prepared to continue to play Fritsch when the ball isn't perfect for him given his complete disinterest in competing defensively? Another factor in why opposition teams waltz the ball out of our defence. Opposition defenders completely exploit that part of Fritsch's game. Do people notice this? When will Goody hold him to account? I won't hold my breath given the myriad of issues we have in our forwardline anyway. 

Ben Brown at full fitness is what this team misses more than supporters give credit for and we need to bring in another player of that type pronto. 

So, whilst I'm not in the 'sack Goody' camp. I certainly think that he's done this team no favours in the last few years and if he is not to blame, who we blaming? The umpires? Injury? Fitness? 

How about no. Those things will be there every year, period. Sure Petracca has been a missive loss. But that's even more telling! If a team is that reliant on one player, there are some serious underlying issues. 

And just so it's clear, I'm no doomsdayer. I believe we can rectify, recalibrate and go again whilst we still have some key pillars. But we need to absolutely nail this off-season and nail the pre-season and actually fix some of these underlying issues that have existed for far too long. 

If not, it will indeed be a wasted era. 

This is THE post.

Take a bow Sir.

[Norm Smith's Curse 2,588]

There is no value in sacking a coach right now but suddenly our list looks thin, unfit and bog ordinary. 

[leave it to deever 17,506]

My biggest issue is that after Jackson left we got Grundy. When he left we didn't do anything.

Our fwd line imploded in the the 22 season finals with Bbb doing nothing, Melksham the same and Jackson absolutely nothing( already changed clubs). Tmac injured.

Come 23 when we almost beat Cwood and despite losing Gus the same it didn't fire again. Sadly Milkshake in his career best was injured prior to finals. This time it was Tmac who gave nothing and Bbb injured. 

Credit to Fritta who tried very hard and was the best fwd we had.

But our replacement for Jacko was left out. Maybe the memories of Jackson doing nothing was part of it, given Grundy had already moved on.

Point being, we have been complacent with our struggling fwd line for three years. 

Now it's our ball collectors struggling.

Gus is gone. Oliver has been struggling, Tracca has a serious injury. Jack Viney has been well down on last year's form and Sparrow really just makes up the numbers.

Harmes and Jordan and Hunt and Bedford have all moved on for various and fair reasons. And while not all of these are necessarily were keepers it's been interesting to see the players we picked up from other clubs.

At least our backline is still fairly solid. Although Lever and Salem and Bowey have been suspect this year and our big beltings were not really incumbent upon our defence.

So it's some tough times ahead for us as a club I believe. Max is showing signs of age and we have players like Schache and Fullerton that we never play.

Goody is partly responsible for the lack of recruiting but it's not time to panic and throw out an experienced premier coach.

That would make things worse.

The upside is we have some great young talent we just need to spend a fair bit of cash and bring in some experience. But no more Billings or Hunters.

Also let's be careful on how we spend money going fwd. I dare say there are too many players now on our list that are not playing according to their salaries.

Id point out Kozzie as a good example of this. He's a great player at times and a match winner on occasions. But look at his last three games. He has been very inconsistent this year. He has done very little in our last 3 rounds when finals were on the line. 

It's very difficult to point out where we lost this season aside from a dodgy fwd line where for 18 games Petty has given 6 goals.

I mean after Gather we were four from five and then we fell off the cliff one week and rebounded the next only to see us get worse week to week.

Losing Max and Tracca our two best obviously contributed to this but the real fact was and is our lack of depth.

We have been losing players and not replacing like for like. 

But losing Goody at this point in time will just make things worse.

[ElDiablo14 4,990]

52 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

And now let's do an honest assessment of which players have improved this year. Our senior players have let us down badly. Oliver, Salem, Viney, Lever, Petty

Improvers: Rivers, McVee, maybe Langdon, maybe JvR. That's it

First year players - Windsor - started well. Tholstrup - has been OK

 

Who has improved from the 2021 GF:

• May - no
• Lever - backwards
• Rivers - yes
• Petty - backwards
• Salem - backwards
• Petracca - excused
• Langdon - maybe
• ANB - maybe
• McDonald - no
• Sparrow - backwards
• Spargo - excused
• BBrown - no
• Fritsch - Backwards
• Bowey - excused
• Pickett - not really
• Chandler - no
• Gawn - no
• Oliver - backwards
• Viney - no

Theres our problem right there.

 

A lot of players that are fringe. Woey, billings, Hunter, Schache, Thommo, McAdam, Hore, Verral, Sestan, Farris White BBB

 

 

Petty - need him back in his natural position to assess 

Petracca - definitely improved before injury 

Langdon - I wouldn't say improved but back to his 2021 level 

ANB - slight improvement 

Fritsch - keeps scoring lots of goals, skill wise he is consistent. His issue is more mental/effort 

I would agree with all others. Although some you don't need them to improve but just maintain the level (Max, Clarry, Viney, Lever).

[ElDiablo14 4,990]

20 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

My biggest issue is that after Jackson left we got Grundy. When he left we didn't do anything.

Our fwd line imploded in the the 22 season finals with Bbb doing nothing, Melksham the same and Jackson absolutely nothing( already changed clubs). Tmac injured.

Come 23 when we almost beat Cwood and despite losing Gus the same it didn't fire again. Sadly Milkshake in his career best was injured prior to finals. This time it was Tmac who gave nothing and Bbb injured. 

Credit to Fritta who tried very hard and was the best fwd we had.

But our replacement for Jacko was left out. Maybe the memories of Jackson doing nothing was part of it, given Grundy had already moved on.

Point being, we have been complacent with our struggling fwd line for three years. 

Now it's our ball collectors struggling.

Gus is gone. Oliver has been struggling, Tracca has a serious injury. Jack Viney has been well down on last year's form and Sparrow really just makes up the numbers.

Harmes and Jordan and Hunt and Bedford have all moved on for various and fair reasons. And while not all of these are necessarily were keepers it's been interesting to see the players we picked up from other clubs.

At least our backline is still fairly solid. Although Lever and Salem and Bowey have been suspect this year and our big beltings were not really incumbent upon our defence.

So it's some tough times ahead for us as a club I believe. Max is showing signs of age and we have players like Schache and Fullerton that we never play.

Goody is partly responsible for the lack of recruiting but it's not time to panic and throw out an experienced premier coach.

That would make things worse.

The upside is we have some great young talent we just need to spend a fair bit of cash and bring in some experience. But no more Billings or Hunters.

Also let's be careful on how we spend money going fwd. I dare say there are too many players now on our list that are not playing according to their salaries.

Id point out Kozzie as a good example of this. He's a great player at times and a match winner on occasions. But look at his last three games. He has been very inconsistent this year. He has done very little in our last 3 rounds when finals were on the line. 

It's very difficult to point out where we lost this season aside from a dodgy fwd line where for 18 games Petty has given 6 goals.

I mean after Gather we were four from five and then we fell off the cliff one week and rebounded the next only to see us get worse week to week.

Losing Max and Tracca our two best obviously contributed to this but the real fact was and is our lack of depth.

We have been losing players and not replacing like for like. 

But losing Goody at this point in time will just make things worse.

2022 we should've done the Lynch type move that Richmond did in 2018.

I'll say it again, despite looking unlikely, we should've put a godfather offer in front of McKay.... Was Ben King available?

[Ugottobekidding 1,141]

I'm back💥😆😆😆😆

I think Mr Goodwin has lost the playing group. Also Gawny has probably let his leadership responsibilities slide. They need a captain that will inspire the team to do the hard work. Not a social media comedian.

[Ted Lasso 19,164]

Simon Goodwin 

9 years as coach

Win %: 57.2

Finals win %: 50%

1x premiership 

3x top 4 finishes 

1x minor premiership

1x coach of the year award

 

I think the thing i'd suggest posters consider is if you were offered this record at the beginning of his tenure, simply by virtue of the 1 premiership i think 99% of posters would take it without hesitation. 

The next part of this argument is, if we sacked him tomorrow, are we really better off with an untried coach over a coach with a nearly 60% win record? Unless we could somehow lure John Longmire, Chris Scott or Dimma i really don't see there being any benefit in sacking Goody as of right now. 

 

[Jaded No More 68,819]

9 minutes ago, Ted Lasso said:

Unless we could somehow lure John Longmire, Chris Scott or Dimma i really don't see there being any benefit in sacking Goody as of right now. 

 

We all saw how Dimma went when he lost the top end talent at Richmond, and despite their 9000 first round picks, GC have again done SFA this season.

Longmire has won the same number of flags as Goodwin in 13 seasons as coach, and has the advantage of academy picks. Remove the players Sydney got via COLA and the academy, and lets see how he goes. 

Likewise Scott inherited a premiership dynasty and won a flag in his first year, but it took him 11 season to win another one. 

I really don't understand why fans thinks that a new coach = more success. History will show you that in many cases, new coach does not in fact equal instant or faster success. Look how many coaches Carlton went through. Each one made them no better, until Voss inherited a good list thanks to multiple years at the bottom end of the draft. And still, no flags. 

GWS have had every advantage known to man in terms of drafting, and yet 0 flags despite 2 grand final appearances. Freo were a bee's dick away from getting rid of Longmuir last year, and they're a flag chance this year. 

And then you have perennial 'always the bridesmaid never the bride' in Fagan and Hinkley. 

Winning a flag is bloody hard. We won one in 57 years. And now we want so sack the coach who got us that flag, because he hasn't won another one since? Like how many current coaches have won more than 1 flag with the same club? 

[loges 6,767]

1 hour ago, Ugottobekidding said:

I'm back💥😆😆😆😆

I think Mr Goodwin has lost the playing group. Also Gawny has probably let his leadership responsibilities slide. They need a captain that will inspire the team to do the hard work. Not a social media comedian.

That must be why all the good young players have signed contract extensions.

[John Demonic 5,691]

2 hours ago, Norm Smith's Curse said:

Surely this is trolling

Roost meant Justin Leppitsch. And I concur. Great tactical mind on SEN a few years ago, down to earth and approachable, but still looks like he doesn't take [censored]. Head coaching experience which he would have learnt a hell of a lot from like Voss. Went over and was instrumental in the Pies premiership alongside McCrae.

Although how could we pry him away from the Pies? It would have to be a big contract offer with the mind that his tactical approach is going to be a key reason for us contending next year ie a senior assistant who's either going to be successful at it, or take over as head coach if the club isn't next year. Oh and he should also take a key role in selecting/bringing over some line coaches. That might be the way we can get him over.

Edited August 5 by John Demonic

[Sydee 4,372]

1 hour ago, Ugottobekidding said:

I'm back💥😆😆😆😆

I think Mr Goodwin has lost the playing group. Also Gawny has probably let his leadership responsibilities slide. They need a captain that will inspire the team to do the hard work. Not a social media comedian.

Ugottobekidding right? 

[Ugottobekidding 1,141]

10 minutes ago, Sydee said:

Ugottobekidding right? 

Never. Time is up. Our list won't get us out of the bottom four for the next few years. I really think that a new leadership team is essential to changing the current malaise. Gawn has been great but is aging and they need someone who sets the standayfor the rest of the players.

Edited August 5 by Ugottobekidding

[Sir Why You Little 36,859]

51 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

We all saw how Dimma went when he lost the top end talent at Richmond, and despite their 9000 first round picks, GC have again done SFA this season.

Longmire has won the same number of flags as Goodwin in 13 seasons as coach, and has the advantage of academy picks. Remove the players Sydney got via COLA and the academy, and lets see how he goes. 

Likewise Scott inherited a premiership dynasty and won a flag in his first year, but it took him 11 season to win another one. 

I really don't understand why fans thinks that a new coach = more success. History will show you that in many cases, new coach does not in fact equal instant or faster success. Look how many coaches Carlton went through. Each one made them no better, until Voss inherited a good list thanks to multiple years at the bottom end of the draft. And still, no flags. 

GWS have had every advantage known to man in terms of drafting, and yet 0 flags despite 2 grand final appearances. Freo were a bee's dick away from getting rid of Longmuir last year, and they're a flag chance this year. 

And then you have perennial 'always the bridesmaid never the bride' in Fagan and Hinkley. 

Winning a flag is bloody hard. We won one in 57 years. And now we want so sack the coach who got us that flag, because he hasn't won another one since? Like how many current coaches have won more than 1 flag with the same club? 

We all know that we have won a Flag, that is not the issue and it was 3 Seasons ago

The issue is what is happening now and beyond 

These stats are very damming 

[Jaded No More 68,819]

4 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

We all know that we have won a Flag, that is not the issue and it was 3 Seasons ago

The issue is what is happening now and beyond 

These stats are very damming 

Absolutely they are and if you think Goodwin is blind to those stats then you’re wrong. 
Doesn’t mean a new coach will magically fix the issues and we also need to look at the why behind these stats. Last I checked Goody isn’t an inside mid anymore.

We have Clarry struggling for known reasons, we lost Trac halfway thru the year, Viney is either aging or carrying something, Sparrow hasn’t stepped up, we lost Gus, Salem who they ear marked to play midfield couldn’t get his body right. Etc etc etc. 

We need to regenerate the midfield. 

[Ugottobekidding 1,141]

I believe that Goodwin threw everything at a premiership but it has come at a cost of trading loads of craft picks. Now our next generation of players is looking a bit thin.

Edited August 5 by Ugottobekidding

[Sir Why You Little 36,859]

6 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Absolutely they are and if you think Goodwin is blind to those stats then you’re wrong. 
Doesn’t mean a new coach will magically fix the issues and we also need to look at the why behind these stats. Last I checked Goody isn’t an inside mid anymore.

We have Clarry struggling for known reasons, we lost Trac halfway thru the year, Viney is either aging or carrying something, Sparrow hasn’t stepped up, we lost Gus, Salem who they ear marked to play midfield couldn’t get his body right. Etc etc etc. 

We need to regenerate the midfield. 

All Clubs travel through adversity, we put up the White Flag far too often. 
We need new Faces and new voices this Summer

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,286]

2 hours ago, ElDiablo14 said:

Petty - need him back in his natural position to assess 

Petracca - definitely improved before injury 

Langdon - I wouldn't say improved but back to his 2021 level 

ANB - slight improvement 

Fritsch - keeps scoring lots of goals, skill wise he is consistent. His issue is more mental/effort 

I would agree with all others. Although some you don't need them to improve but just maintain the level (Max, Clarry, Viney, Lever).

Agree in part but it’s also part frustration. We have a congested fwd line and our delivery is poor.

[Sir Why You Little 36,859]

4 minutes ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

Agree in part but it’s also part frustration. We have a congested fwd line and our delivery is poor.

And how long have we had that problem for?

Part of Learning’s that never seem to be learnt..

[Gawndy the Great 9,010]

On 04/08/2024 at 17:03, dazzledavey36 said:

Well this is damning..

 

It certainly is. This is more than just personnel issues. This was the year we were supposed to answer the critics. Show them we had strong culture, get rid of the straight sets label. 

Well we missed that opportunity and now we are at a cross-roads. Which way will we go from here? Rebound or further in the abyss?

Do you trust Goodwin, Richo, the assistant coaches and Lamb to get us out of this mess?

[picket fence 16,970]

1 hour ago, Ted Lasso said:

Simon Goodwin 

9 years as coach

Win %: 57.2

Finals win %: 50%

1x premiership 

3x top 4 finishes 

1x minor premiership

1x coach of the year award

 

I think the thing i'd suggest posters consider is if you were offered this record at the beginning of his tenure, simply by virtue of the 1 premiership i think 99% of posters would take it without hesitation. 

The next part of this argument is, if we sacked him tomorrow, are we really better off with an untried coach over a coach with a nearly 60% win record? Unless we could somehow lure John Longmire, Chris Scott or Dimma i really don't see there being any benefit in sacking Goody as of right now. 

 

Nup, in this sport u need to be RUTHLESS He has not delivered now for 3 years. DEFINATELY time to move on! PERIOD!

[Sydee 4,372]

11 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

It certainly is. This is more than just personnel issues. This was the year we were supposed to answer the critics. Show them we had strong culture, get rid of the straight sets label. 

Well we missed that opportunity and now we are at a cross-roads. Which way will we go from here? Rebound or further in the abyss?

Do you trust Goodwin, Richo, the assistant coaches and Lamb to get us out of this mess?

Lamb is the one that really needs to be under scrutiny if he is the main man leading our trading strategy 

I suspect he is not operating in a vacuum and probably takes his lead from others but tbh it’s been very very poor imo

[Engorged Onion 10,198]

Looking forward to a synthesis of all these viewpoints for the end of season review power point presentation. 

Edited August 5 by Engorged Onion

[Sir Why You Little 36,859]

8 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

Looking forward to a synthesis of all these viewpoints for the end of season review power point presentation. 

Could be a long night…

[TracWhack 4]

Goody has been a decent coach but his game plan and our list isn't built for modern transition based footy. (Especially our poor skills). He needs to work on to adapt to new game styles with the player he has...  I'd give next year and we review and end of the season. New assistant  coaches are needed and new conditioning staff.. 

 

I just don't think this list was generational to have Dynasty. We just didn't have any notable key fwds either to level or fit for post 2021.  Dynasties have gun key fwds to bail them out of trouble

Lions (Lynch/Brown/Bradshaw)

Cats(Mooney/Podisadly/Hawkins)

Hawks (Buddy/Roughead/Gunston)

TIgers (Riewoldt/Lynch)

 

We had Tmac and BBB and when they played together we were  very good (last half of 2021/start 2022) before Tmac cooked his foot and BBB knee got worse. . Since then they barely played together if at all. And to be honest they don't hold a candle to other key fwds in sides I mentioned . In fact we haven't had key fwd that has kicked 35+ a season since 2018

 

Our only gun fwd was med fwd in Fritta and a young up commers with Kosi and JVR

 

I think he done more than decent job with the cattle.