POSTGAME: Rd 19 vs Fremantle

[kev martin 9,885]

6 minutes ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

Post away, Confucius. Just don't expect too many to warm to your life coaching full stop, let alone after a deflating game like that. 

Why the personal attacks? 

I am not Confucius.

[Jeremy 981]

Surely Tim Lamb’s got to feel the heat soon? Goody in his presser saying we don’t have another ruckman who can win hitouts, well why not? Gawn is 33 in a couple months, how was this not addressed in the last trade period? Speak to any lions fan for 2 minutes and they’ll tell you Fullerton’s not a ruckman, so why was he brought in? It’s not about having an A grader in the wings, a C grade ruckman would suffice as long as he’s competitive, incompetent list management, a big trade period awaits for Lamb, do SOMETHING  

[Dr. Gonzo 24,207]

1 hour ago, kev martin said:

The venting was all through the game day forum. Gets a bit much.

I can understand after the game.

The threads really tick over when the game doesn't go our way. When we take control the thread has much less input.

Seems the venters want to be the dominant voice.

Makes like they don't enjoy footy.

Maybe, just maybe, they use it as an outlet to vent? Probably better than kicking the cat, right?

[spirit of norm smith 16,441]

Viney 5/10 -  his heart BUT please take first option!!! Please!!! Caught or Smothered   DONT THINK !!! Do!!! 

May 4/10’- tough and hard but loose!!! FFS 

Lever -1/10- couldn’t do anything  right  fumbles, slip, turnover, outmarked … worst gsme ever !!! 

Bowey -4/10 … average !!! Missed kicks and tackles; just stays in 

Langdon 7/10 yes he actually gave a damn; ran and tackled at least 

Rivers 6/10 - tried and tried but outclassed 

Salem -3/10 - looks slow and his kicking is slow and up !! Slow decision making

Neal-Bullen -3/10  no influence.  Poor tagging hand as he fumbled and stumbled 

Petty 4/10- overwhelmed but not disgraced , competed hard 

vanRooyen 5/10- just needs to take his opportunity.  Compete hard

Moniz-Wakefield - 4/10 let down by experienced teammates; ok in patches 

McVee -7/10. Our best player. Skilled and reliable. No false moves  

McDonald -3/10 / oops. Slow today. Finish line is 5 weeks away  

Windsor 4/10 - at least he runs and showed some heart

Sparrow - 1/10 - poor and poor and poor ; slow and fumbled. Why is he playing?

Turner -3/10- battled but outgunned by Freo defenders.  

Fritsch 3/10 - poor today - needs to compete  

Chandler 4/10 -two goals but otherwise chased grass 

Oliver 3/10 - battled but outclassed; handballs to no one 

Tholstrup - 1/10 - caught three times when clear as was run down - little spatial awareness 

Pickett - 2/10 - fumbles and stumbles and miskick and fumbles and slip over !!!  

Melksham -5/10 - created goals - kicks accuracy but at times had no forward pressure 

Billings - 3/10 - did ok. Sub next week as time suits him

umpires 1/10 🤮💩🤮💩- on Dockers payroll 

votes. 3 McVee 2 Langdon 1 Rivers 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,207]

1 hour ago, kev martin said:

I understand it. Just don't get how it makes joy with that type of perspective. 

Focusing on the negative is a protective behaviour, so you don't do it again. Though you will all be back again for more of it.

Sadistic or change the behaviour. Repeating the way is not in your best interest.

 

And suppressing the negative sends people round the bend. You're really surprised at negative posting after a 50 point loss to a team who beat us by 15 goals about 8 weeks ago??

I get why people vent on here after a loss. I don't get why people want to lecture them for doing so. Life's too short, right?

[Dingo 1,059]

24 minutes ago, dimmy said:

For all the Doomsayers:

Hitouts 47-9 their way. Always going to happen,because our best CHF got monstered in the Ruck, but tried all day and plays with heart & courage (a 2020's version of Jonathan Brown) . He is learning all the time.

Petty : Our new recruit . 15 Kicks, 6 marks 5 tackles & 6 ho. Cannot doubt his performance today (but I must admit we would choose Jackson before him as a second ruckman). We (outsiders) probably do not realise the impact (in confidence in his body) plays. Today you could feel he is gaining confidence to attack the aerial stuff.

 Easy to be critical of our "defence" , but a midfield (With their tails up and playing to a winning ruck ). Even a Petracca, Brayshaw, Viney at their finest would have had their hands full today without a "full time ruckman" .    

Thanks for some cool, common sense.

[rpfc 28,383]

Good thing we didn’t risk Gawn…

This young team was outclassed by a team that is where we were in 2018/2021 (can’t decide which) and we are not what we were.

If we can escape the next 5 weeks with only one more horror day then we might call this season a success considering what we were up against, battled through, and with the issues we sustained.

[ElDiablo14 4,998]

2 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Good thing we didn’t risk Gawn…

This young team was outclassed by a team that is where we were in 2018/2021 (can’t decide which) and we are not what we were.

If we can escape the next 5 weeks with only one more horror day then we might call this season a success considering what we were up against, battled through, and with the issues we sustained.

2018, they haven't made a PF.

Won't see them in the GF until they can actually make it to a PF. If they make it this year, a more experienced Sydney, Carlton or Brisbane would take them down.

[ANG13 2,062]

24 minutes ago, The Taciturn Demon said:

Am I just feeling mean-spirited after that nonsense, or is Jackson wasted at Fremantle? 

He’s definitely not wasted at Fremantle in my opinion. 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,207]

48 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

I think that’s the problem, I don’t think he would have competed any better than Petty or Roo and he can’t take a contested mark making him a liability. 
 

Goodwin said post game that there is nobody on our list who could win ruck contests against Darcy and Jackson except Gawn.
If that’s not the worst vote of confidence for Fullerton you’ve ever heard, I don’t know what is. 

So why trade him in? Give him a run and see. Some players do better when given a challenge. The other thing is having him in would settle our forward line and make their defence more accountable without needing to throw Petty/JVR in there.

[BoBo 2,941]

2 hours ago, DeeZee said:

I’m sorry to those that rate him but Sparrow is just a nothing player

Went and had a look at some player ratings numbers for all players. I wanted to see how sparrow ranked for the whole AFL and randomly picked another player which was Ed Langdon.

2022:

Tom Sparrow was 275th ranked player.

2023:

Ranked 219.

2024:

Ranked 333

Big progression in one season but then a bigger regression 2024.
 

For juxtaposition…

 

Ed Langdon -

2022:

ranked 238

2023:

ranked 257

2024:

ranked 323.

Ed on the other handed has had 2 seasons in a row of regression. 

Going by the player ratings alone, you could argue Ed Langdons effect on games this year are only just better than Tom Sparrow.

Doesn’t feel like it but the rankings are what they are. 

Edit: this is neither an endorsement or defence of Tom Sparrow. Just interesting to look at some numbers and compare him to another player. 

Edited July 21 by BoBo
Clarification

[Dr. Gonzo 24,207]

45 minutes ago, kev martin said:

I am not upset.

Merely trying to change a few of the perspectives. Those wallowing could be happier with a change in their thoughts.

I like the moments I live. To win or lose is not so important to me, the journey is my joy. Success is overated. 

If only the praise would be expressed more. The criticism always seem to be in greater numbers. Reading the venom is not much fun, and shows a lack of self understanding by the authors.

You're the second person to say I shouldn't post.

What is that about?

Good luck group thinkers. A dissenting voice to the "realists" and "venters" should not heard! 

 

 

Instead of dissenting and telling others not to post negative opinions, a futile pursuit, perhaps you should just post positive opinions and balance up the ledger.

[kev martin 9,885]

33 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Maybe, just maybe, they use it as an outlet to vent? Probably better than kicking the cat, right?

I think they do both.

Behaviour, causes habits and then addiction. 

[Older demon 2,741]

Listen to Goody's presser. Salem has hamstring tightness so maybe he was playing injured. Yes we don't have a tao ruckman on the list besides Max. Fullarton is a forward who can do some ruck work like Van Rooyen does.

So time to find a different style of ruck than Max more like a Briggs at GWS. Max is a generational player who is irreplaceable. Who can come on I don't know but look at how Lloyd Meek has developed at Hawthorn, he is a seriously big unit.

[The heart beats true 18,123]

I really liked Windsor’s game today. The kid is going to be an absolute weapon. It’ll be an interesting watch to see if he moves on ball more in seasons 3-5. He’s the kind of player we’ve missed for the last decade. 

[kev martin 9,885]

4 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Instead of dissenting and telling others not to post negative opinions, a futile pursuit, perhaps you should just post positive opinions and balance up the ledger.

But, the venters hit up straight away in the first. Not good reading for someone looking for game info.

[spirit of norm smith 16,441]

Disposal efficiency 

top 3 

Petty 15 possessions.  DE 100% 

AMW 11 possessions  DE 90%

McVee 21 possessions. DE 86% 

bottom 3 

Turner 7 possessions  DE 28%

Viney 23 possessions  DE 60% 

Billings 18 possessions DE 61%

 

[KingDingAling 3,757]

1 minute ago, Older demon said:

Listen to Goody's presser. Salem has hamstring tightness so maybe he was playing injured. Yes we don't have a tao ruckman on the list besides Max. Fullarton is a forward who can do some ruck work like Van Rooyen does.

So time to find a different style of ruck than Max more like a Briggs at GWS. Max is a generational player who is irreplaceable. Who can come on I don't know but look at how Lloyd Meek has developed at Hawthorn, he is a seriously big unit.

Hawks would’ve paid overs to get Meek. We can’t afford to pay overs. We have too many big contracts taking up $$$. It’s why we have to go for left field options like Fullerton. From what I’ve seen of the VFL. I’d probably play Verrall next week. Swing Petty back, and bring Jefferson in. 

[loges 6,767]

3 hours ago, wizardinoz said:

And how did that work for us today, Simon?  Fullerton left out and we got destroyed in the ruck. Why draft the bloke if you aren’t going to play him? 

As if Fullerton would have made a difference, this was on the players.

[DiscoStu17 731]

16 minutes ago, BoBo said:

Went and had a look at some player ratings numbers for all players. I wanted to see how sparrow ranked for the whole AFL and randomly picked another player which was Ed Langdon.

2022:

Tom Sparrow was 275th ranked player.

2023:

Ranked 219.

2024:

Ranked 333

Big progression in one season but then a bigger regression 2024.
 

For juxtaposition…

 

Ed Langdon -

2022:

ranked 238

2023:

ranked 257

2024:

ranked 323.

Ed on the other handed has had 2 seasons in a row of regression. 

Going by the player ratings alone, you could argue Ed Langdons effect on games this year are only just better than Tom Sparrow.

Doesn’t feel like it but the rankings are what they are. 

Edit: this is neither an endorsement or defence of Tom Sparrow. Just interesting to look at some numbers and compare him to another player. 

 

1 hour ago, Older demon said:

Don't let anyone tell you the ruck contest is overrated. Darcy was brilliant, gave his team first use of the ball and tapped it to space, allowing his mids to run onto the ball. The tapouts and clearances were a mauling, and our makeshift ruck combo was out of their depth.

I was disappointed that we couldn't cover their overlap run and they constantly switch to the middle of the ground to a lone player and then the run starts. They scored 10 goals starting from their half back line. Our half forwards were pantsed and didn't apply enough pressure or chasing.

I thought McVee was sensational, May was outstanding and poor Lever had probably his worst game I can remember but had his left shoulder heavily bandaged after quarter time so unsure if he was injured.

Against their talls we needed extra marking power. Tuner was monstered and Petty/JVR rucking meant we were undermanned up from. Max's influence is immeasurable as he marks down back up forward and contests. 

It’s difficult to rank players or believe their outside ratings when they don’t know or understand the roles the players have been given. It looks to me like these roles allow other players to play other parts - dropping off, intercepting, rolling through half forward etc.
 

Having said that, quite a few of those roles were null and void because freo were allowed to run unchecked through the midfield. I don’t think Fullarton would have made a difference, but I think Verrall might have negated some of their many hits to advantage.

It was just putting our defence on the back foot immediately following stoppage. No defence can withstand that onslaught.

Edited July 21 by DiscoStu17

[BoBo 2,941]

3 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

I really liked Windsor’s game today. The kid is going to be an absolute weapon. It’ll be an interesting watch to see if he moves on ball more in seasons 3-5. He’s the kind of player we’ve missed for the last decade. 

He got a possession in the last and burned away easily from a Freo playing in chase. His top speed is up there at 34.2km/hr 

[DiscoStu17 731]

51 minutes ago, kev martin said:

Why the personal attacks? 

I am not Confucius.

This sums me up,

Man is sometimes extraordinarily, passionately, in love with suffering. 

Nothing in this world is harder than speaking the truth, nothing easier than flattery. 

Much unhappiness has come into the world because of bewilderment and things left unsaid.

Right or wrong, it's very pleasant to break things from time to time.

[loges 6,767]

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

We got belted, yeah, but I didn't think we were deplorable. Having no ruck killed us and our mids weren't able to win clearance to make up for it. From there our defenders were hammered and our forwards couldn't get near it. We had patches where we kicked some consecutive goals but never really threatened.

Probably lucky not to lose by more to be honest but I didn't think it was through lack of effort, we were just outplayed/outclassed. Freo are a decent side who seem to have put it together after a few years of threatening and are printed to make a run for the flag. Today just showed we are more of a 6-10th side at the moment rather than a top 4 team.

It takes effort to contest and tackle, it wasn't there.

[whatwhat say what 22,742]

15 minutes ago, Older demon said:

Listen to Goody's presser. Salem has hamstring tightness so maybe he was playing injured. Yes we don't have a tao ruckman on the list besides Max. Fullarton is a forward who can do some ruck work like Van Rooyen does.

exactly what many of us have been saying

[DeeZee 7,378]

Our midfield got smashed inside and out, they always seemed to have the extra player on the outside and our pressure was poor.

Disappointing effort or just beaten by a better side?

They just seemed to play a better structured game to us and we have great difficulty in playing against it.