Sounds like this topic is one we will all want to comment on and tomorrow I will drop the 2014 draft.

It was good to see the undercurrent of support for Taylor and how many are quick to defend his status as being more of a luminary than overrated.

A couple of you were disappointed that I could rate his 2013 draft that year as just a 5/10, a couple of you wanted to make the point that Salem, Hunt and Harmes are all potential 200 gamers - which shows that Taylor was pretty much on the money.

My own view is that you seemed to have missed the point in my overall comments - 2013 was one of the best draft years ever and while 2001 will always get the “best draft ever” tag, 2013 isn’t far behind.

I mentioned five clubs have current captains from that year - in fact it is six as I forgot Alex Pearce, who was taken with pick 37.

Three clubs - Giants, Bulldogs and Blues - snared superstars of the game (Kelly, Bont, Cripps) and Hawthorn (Sicily) and Essendon (Merrett) would also claim their recruiter did way better than Taylor that year.

Salem, Harmes and Hunt are all good role players, but none are stars of the game in my view.

And on the good average player selections basis, Port smashes us with Impey (21), Byrne-Jones (52) and Amon (68) all still going and all still a chance to make it to 200 games - if that is our gauge of success.

Sydney’s draft guru would also feel he fared better that year as well, even if Hewett (32), Nankervis (35) and Aliir Aliir (44) are all at other clubs.

And neither Port or Sydney had access to a high pick like us - which is my point in the 2013 pre-amble that one or two of you seemed to ignore - as I said oh to be a fly on the wall at the meeting when Taylor was asked who he planned to take with pick 2, before Viney and Roosy agreed to the Tyson trade.

So I am quite comfortable with Taylor’s rating of 5/10 for that year and I feel Viney’s trade rating of 3/10 is on the money given we ultimately gave up Kelly for Tyson and the second rounder for Vince cost us access to Merrett and many other quality picks in a quality draft year.

But Taylor fans don’t get too aggrieved - I suspect you might like how I rate his 2014 effort.

One final correction to “what, say what” who clearly has got very excited by the topic and has jumped forward already with lists of talls etc.

But in his original negative post, he seemed to be trying to allude to the fact that Jimmy Toumpas (who was drafted pre-Taylor) was the right choice and that he wasn’t injured in his draft year.

Toumpas was brilliant in his pre-draft year(2011), standing out as a 16yo in the SANFL, and then captaining SA at the 2012 carnival winning AA honours. But towards the end of the year he sustained hip issues and had surgery, as a result missing all the pre-draft testing camps. That’s why it was a bit of a gamble because we didn’t really know how fast he was, although he clearly was a nice kick, something we lacked back then with only Jones and Watts able to hit targets at training. Viney wanted Wines, but was outvoted, which is what happens. End story.

13 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

*not sure who came after Laurie

Very, very few good players.  McCreery probably the pick of them.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_AFL_draft

11 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

*not sure who came after Laurie

The picks between Laurie and our next pick (aside from academy selections etc) were Brayden Cook, Matthew McLeod-Allison, Nathan O'Driscoll, Sam Berry, Seamus Mitchell, Caleb Poulter, Liam McMahon, and Shannon Neale.

Josh Treacy was selected in the Rookie Draft.  18 clubs overlooked him prior to that!

He has done a very, very good job.

Loudly pointing at a few that don't make the grade is lazy reductionism.

As a body of work he has done a lot with what he has had to work with.

1 hour ago, whatwhat say what said:

derek hine at the filth

How do you split them? 

Again, I don't know the numbers but to my mind they're pretty on par. 

2 hours ago, Deespicable said:

Three clubs - Giants, Bulldogs and Blues - snared superstars of the game (Kelly, Bont, Cripps) and Hawthorn (Sicily) and Essendon (Merrett) would also claim their recruiter did way better than Taylor that year.

Interesting. You talk about one player from each of those teams in the 2013 drafts, which is very convenient because each of those teams only really drafted one good player! The only possible exception is GWS, who also drafted Rory Lobb (who went home) and Cam McCarthy (who went home) with top 30 picks.

They selected the 5 players you mentioned with picks 2, 4, 13, 26 and 56, so we only had access to Cripps and Merrett (over Salem) and Sicily (over Jay Kennedy-Harris). Placing Taylor behind GWS and Bulldogs because he didn't draft Kelly or Bontempelli is disingenuous.

Those 4 clubs (GWS, Bulldogs, Essendon and Hawthorn) plus us selected 40 players between them that draft (we drafted 7 of them, including 4 rookie picks). There were 10 of those 40 players that played as many games as Jetta after being drafted. The 4 players you mentioned, Rory Lobb and then 4 players drafted by Taylor (Salem, Hunt, Harmes and Jetta). And only 7 of the remaining players played more than Jay Kennedy-Harris!

The strike rate from those other 5 teams (with, generally, much better picks) was 19% chance of getting a 'Jetta+' players and a 41% chance of getting a 'Kennedy-Harris+' player. Melbourne had 57% 'Jetta+' and 71% 'Kennedy-Harris+' rate.

From picks outside the top 39, where we had 1 successful pick, there were only 4 'Jetta+' players .... and we had 3 of them (the other was Sicily).

I think a 5/10 rating is silly.

 

Team/ND picks (all others rookies/PSD) players selected. Yellow are players selected that played as many games as Jetta, Blue are those that played as many as Kennedy-Harris.

Edited July 9, 20241 yr by Axis of Bob
Forgot that Clisby was a rookie elevation. 2nd update: completely forgot about Tom Boyd at pick 1!

18 minutes ago, middleagedemon said:

How do you split them? 

Again, I don't know the numbers but to my mind they're pretty on par. 

very hard - both have helped build premiership lists

i would argue hine got kotd cos of the dacaii, moore father-son selections plus quaynor as a 'cheap' nga pick before the rules changed to limit access only to outside the top 40 unless yr a franchise 'club'

 

1 hour ago, Demonstone said:

Very, very few good players.  McCreery probably the pick of them.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_AFL_draft

We did pull forward our draft pick from the future to take Laurie, so that needs to be also considered.

9 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

We did pull forward our draft pick from the future to take Laurie, so that needs to be also considered.

I suspect we did so with the intention of drafting Holmes, but we were gazumped at the 11th hour.

 

3 minutes ago, Demonstone said:

I suspect we did so with the intention of drafting Holmes, but we were gazumped at the 11th hour.

 

That could be right, but that possibility needed to be considered in making the trade. And we could have aborted and found a live trade back to the previous year. The 'out' on the picks being poor after Laurie is only telling half the story.

2 hours ago, Deespicable said:

I mentioned five clubs have current captains from that year - in fact it is six as I forgot Alex Pearce, who was taken with pick 37.

Three clubs - Giants, Bulldogs and Blues - snared superstars of the game (Kelly, Bont, Cripps) and Hawthorn (Sicily) and Essendon (Merrett) would also claim their recruiter did way better than Taylor that year.

Just another one here because I missed it the first time around.

GWS had picks 1 and 2, and whiffed on pick 1 (Tom Boyd) and selected Kelly at pick 2. Kelly is a very good player and a very good pick, but Tom Boyd played 9 games and was out of GWS at the end of the year. He only played 61 games in total and, barring one glorious half of football, was a total bust. 

Hawthorn chose Billy Hartung two picks before Zach Merrett. How come they get a pass on that whilst Taylor doesn't for selecting Salem 17 picks before him, even though Salem has been a high level player in the competition for many years whilst Hartung was not?

If Melbourne was a 5/10 in 2013, what ratings would you give to GWS, Bulldogs, Carlton, Essendon and Hawthorn in 2013?

I’d go as far as to say it was almost ALL down to player development during the Bailey/neeld years.
 

The vast majority of players we drafted back then were objectively the highest-rated players in their respective drafts (yes, even Jimmy Toumpas). A classic example is that almost any other club would have taken Jack Watts at pick 2 if we didn’t take him with number 1.

To then say they “stuffed up the draft picks” would be wildly incorrect and simplistic, especially considering that you couldn’t possibly get that many picks wrong even if you deliberately tried. I mean think about it.

Anyways, hard to believe that was 10-15 years ago now.

Leaning towards overrated. Out of contract this year, wouldn’t hate a change. Since 2020, extremely hit and miss if you care to have a look. Four first round picks in Laurie, JVR, Jefferson and Tholstrup that are having no impact. Howes, Woewodin, Adams more that are looking average. Windsor may have been too far of a reach. This whole strategy of getting rid of all your second / third round picks to move up a couple spots in the first round is really hurting us, it’s not paying off, no depth when we need a quantity of good young players. He’s paid the big bucks, landing a Joel Freijah type at pick 45 or Logan Morris at 31 is what can see a team rise, more of this and less of being so obsessed with trading future firsts, time to earn your pay packet JT

On 09/07/2024 at 09:08, DistrACTION Jackson said:

Not a big fan of Caleb and Kolt?

Jury is still out with both.

33 minutes ago, Greg Schneider said:

Leaning towards overrated. Out of contract this year, wouldn’t hate a change. Since 2020, extremely hit and miss if you care to have a look. Four first round picks in Laurie, JVR, Jefferson and Tholstrup that are having no impact. Howes, Woewodin, Adams more that are looking average. Windsor may have been too far of a reach. This whole strategy of getting rid of all your second / third round picks to move up a couple spots in the first round is really hurting us, it’s not paying off, no depth when we need a quantity of good young players. He’s paid the big bucks, landing a Joel Freijah type at pick 45 or Logan Morris at 31 is what can see a team rise, more of this and less of being so obsessed with trading future firsts, time to earn your pay packet JT

JVR is having a bad season. Jefferson is developing and has had some good and bad games. Kolt had an injury and Laurie was in the Covid year that you might as well have pulled a name out of a hat. It’s probably worth looking back more years than a couple to see his work and development

I also think about how he wanted to move heaven and earth to get the picks for Holmes and Georgiardis and Butters. I think it’s fair to say he knows what he is doing.

I know it's been a bad 24 months but [censored] this thread is a shocker.

9 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

I know it's been a bad 24 months but [censored] this thread is a shocker.

The bath's empty and the babie's gone!

13 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

I know it's been a bad 24 months but [censored] this thread is a shocker.

worst thread i’ve seen on here, as i’ve mentioned recently he single handily saved this club

Windsor will be one of our better players, if not a star

I am concerned perhaps the Kolt was a personality hire in the wake of losing Angus Brayshaw?

He drafts based on the coach and footy departments direction. Competitive, combative players who win their own footy was the brief. Only recently speed and ball use has been a focus.

Not his fault. He has done what was asked. Knows good footballers

22 minutes ago, jaydenh10 said:

worst thread i’ve seen on here, as i’ve mentioned recently he single handily saved this club

He was one of many parts that turned the ship.

Jason Taylor seems to be a visionary when we're going well and somebody to blame when we're not.

Well there is not much point in having a champion recruiter if you end up currently 14th on the ladder with 5 wins. A very traditional result for the MFC I might add.

The playing list isnt good enough, obviously.

But then the recruiter doesnt work in isolation but rates the players at the direction of the football department. If the club asks for the best one legged left hander then I am confident that JT will call out the best.

However as we havent drafted a 'tall' in a decade perhaps the recruitment dept needs strengthening in identifying talent in that area.

So is JT in charge of drafting in young talent as done a great job overall with the key forwards the issue, who looks after trade in existing/ free agency players , lamb?