On 01/07/2024 at 02:15, Deepfreeze said:

If we could learn to not have goalless quarters, this would not be as big an issue on this forum.

The umpiring is bad but we need to take responsibility for missed opportunities.

I think at least 2 games this year we have lost due to goalless quarters? Almost a third against North.

They are separate issues.

Yes, we should kick more goals from the opportunities we get

And...

Yes, the umpiring needs to improve 

  On 30/06/2024 at 13:49, PaulRB said:

I say introduce deaf AI robot umpires trained to interpret the (current) interpretations of the (current) rules. Like driverless cars for footy.

Do it AFL.

🤓😉

Hey PaulRB but their already robotically programmed to reward certain players( we know who they are) and penalise others.

Certainly deaf to any criticism.

  On 01/07/2024 at 02:53, PaulRB said:

I'm waiting for @binman's theory on how Umpire training may be affecting their vision and decision making abilities...

Are the umpires loading? ;)

 

By training do you mean the fitness, or the instructions from the coaches re decision making, what to look for in games etc? If the second, this can have a massive influence and make them not impartial.

  On 01/07/2024 at 08:01, Clintosaurus said:

By training do you mean the fitness, or the instructions from the coaches re decision making, what to look for in games etc? If the second, this can have a massive influence and make them not impartial.

Indeed, I wasn’t being totally facetious about umpire fitness. Maybe some of the new umpires need a few more preseasons? 

Umpiring is usually bad every year, since they’ve had 4 each game it’s gotten worse, who knows why, it’s the AFL’s fault not umpires. It’s because the rules change week after week. 
the game has become unwatchable, what makes it worst for us is we’ve got to watch a team coached by the worst coach in the game.

Put simply, if the umpires are going to be bad, I want us to be consistently favoured by the terrible decisions, maybe winning a few close games due to their egregious errors.

Dillon, the AFL CEO, today announced to the sheep that the standard of Umpiring has never been higher, that the reason for the 'inconsistencies' is because 'Competition among clubs is tighter.'

He sounds like a cross between Biden and Trump, if you can imagine anything more insane.

  On 02/07/2024 at 08:16, Monbon said:

Dillon, the AFL CEO, today announced to the sheep that the standard of Umpiring has never been higher, that the reason for the 'inconsistencies' is because 'Competition among clubs is tighter.'

He sounds like a cross between Biden and Trump, if you can imagine anything more insane.

I spoke to 2 co-workers today about footy and they both (independent of each other) said exactly the same thing I said on here in the last week. That they only watch their teams play (Essendon/Carlton) and they don’t watch neutral games anymore because the umpiring is so frustrating. 
 

I was pretty surprised to be honest. Hard to extrapolate out to broader supporters thoughts, but 2/2 thinking and saying the identical thing is interesting.

  On 02/07/2024 at 08:45, BoBo said:

I spoke to 2 co-workers today about footy and they both (independent of each other) said exactly the same thing I said on here in the last week. That they only watch their teams play (Essendon/Carlton) and they don’t watch neutral games anymore because the umpiring is so frustrating. 
 

I was pretty surprised to be honest. Hard to extrapolate out to broader supporters thoughts, but 2/2 thinking and saying the identical thing is interesting.

The AFL, like most Western Countries, lives in Fantasyland. They hate confronting THE REAL, which Iggy Popp sang about: ya gotta deal with the real.

I know one of the AFL umpires and feel for them with all the criticism. Their job is to make split-second decisions that are supposed to be perfect and scrutinized by numerous slo-mo replays. Listen to Razor Ray on the radio and how he follows the game and adjudicates

A lot of what Dillon says is true when he discusses their training, reviews and development. To this, there are lots of measurables, stats and KPIs on which they judge performance. If Dillon is so sure that the standard is as good as ever I would ask him to produce the data they collect to support this premise.

In our game last week there were perhaps 25 frees given for the whole game and it was the obvious ones not paid that fire supporters up.

I get the impression that is safer to err in not giving a decision or handing a 50-meter penalty than giving an iffy contentious one.

 

  On 30/06/2024 at 13:52, DubDee said:

The umpiring is just as ****house as it was 10 years ago

i try to ignore it but it is hard sometimes 

Not sure when the number of umpires were increased to four (which I thought was a good idea at the time- to pick up legitimate frees deep in forward/ defence)- which has proven to be an abject failure.

This stretched the talent pool which increased the likelihood of more poor / inconsistent decisions being made.

Add to this the fine line interpretations required to determine what is a handball / throw and players milking the system for frees (eg driving their own head into the ground) it all just looks / feels worse than the standard 10 years ago. 

Seems like quite a few games results this year were directly impacted by some very bad calls late in the game.
Such a shame for those of us that watch football because we love football (as opposed to the ‘professional entertainment’ game that it had sadly morphed into).

If the Dees aren’t playing I’d much rather watch country footy than AFL due to the umpiring. And who thought turning up their mics to 500db was a good innovation for TV?? [censored]…..

  On 01/07/2024 at 01:20, Hawk the Demon said:

(a) is not relevant because he was within 9 metres of the line. Arguable if there was immediate physical pressure, but due to the behaviour of the Geelong players the umpire judged (b) didn't apply.  So, he had time and space and therefore should have disposed of the ball. I reckon it was the right call.

The rule was brought in to stop all those rushed behinds Hawthorn conceded in a final - if I recall correctly.

The wider problem is that that situation is not always paid.

Since the rule has come in they've been consistent that if the player taking possession is within 9m of the goal line (ie in the goal square) and there are opposition players in the vicinity then you are allowed to rush it. For some reason they've decided, without consultation or communication, to change their interpretation and now pay that as a free kick. Was that a one off? Or will they pay it consistently like that now? Or will it be ad-hoc depending on which umpire you get and which team is infringing which seems to be how most of the rules are officiated these days.

I laughed out loud when I read this on the AFL’s Footy Fan Survey…

Has the score review and the use of technology improved the game?

Yes, it's important to get decisions right - 73 per cent
No, leave it to the on-field umpires - 27 per cent

So the options are - get the decision right, or don’t get it right by leaving it up to the umpire.

And they wonder why we don’t trust umpiring decisions? They just told us they don’t either.

  On 01/07/2024 at 08:58, Dave1711 said:

what makes it worst for us is we’ve got to watch a team coached by the worst coach in the game.

But we don’t barrack for St Kilda. I’m confused 🤔 

  On 02/07/2024 at 09:23, Older demon said:

I know one of the AFL umpires and feel for them with all the criticism. Their job is to make split-second decisions that are supposed to be perfect and scrutinized by numerous slo-mo replays. Listen to Razor Ray on the radio and how he follows the game and adjudicates

A lot of what Dillon says is true when he discusses their training, reviews and development. To this, there are lots of measurables, stats and KPIs on which they judge performance. If Dillon is so sure that the standard is as good as ever I would ask him to produce the data they collect to support this premise.

In our game last week there were perhaps 25 frees given for the whole game and it was the obvious ones not paid that fire supporters up.

I get the impression that is safer to err in not giving a decision or handing a 50-meter penalty than giving an iffy contentious one.

 

I know an umpire too. It’s a tough gig. They are scrutinised very heavily internally and externally. 

Making decisions is harder than ever as there are way too many players around the ball and the rules are difficult to interpret.

Very rarely, if ever, in the cold light of day can I point to umpiring as a deciding factor.

The AFL on the other hand…. they are an entertainment company that is completely unaccountable to the game.

Amen Titus

Like us, umpires are trying to determine the nature of an event that no longer has any connection to reality.

It is the AFL’s crowning glory.

As usual, a very good read

https://titusoreily.com/afl/the-magical-fairyland-of-afl-umpiring?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaaI33B5hYUmUR_7PUXnGsFqrNPNZnAD3J_TXME-rflpSMQd1OqT6WyHRn4_aem_IKWwmAJMc0wEZvTwjmyUTw

  On 01/07/2024 at 08:58, Dave1711 said:

Umpiring is usually bad every year, since they’ve had 4 each game it’s gotten worse, who knows why, it’s the AFL’s fault not umpires. It’s because the rules change week after week. 
the game has become unwatchable, what makes it worst for us is we’ve got to watch a team coached by the worst coach in the game.

You can't just change teams from year to year..

  On 03/07/2024 at 01:32, Brownie said:

Amen Titus

Like us, umpires are trying to determine the nature of an event that no longer has any connection to reality.

It is the AFL’s crowning glory.

As usual, a very good read

https://titusoreily.com/afl/the-magical-fairyland-of-afl-umpiring?fbclid=PAZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAaaI33B5hYUmUR_7PUXnGsFqrNPNZnAD3J_TXME-rflpSMQd1OqT6WyHRn4_aem_IKWwmAJMc0wEZvTwjmyUTw

spot on

  On 02/07/2024 at 08:45, BoBo said:

they don’t watch neutral games anymore because the umpiring is so frustrating. 

I don't mind watching some teams on the wrong end of umps calls.

But it is getting more noticeable.

  On 01/07/2024 at 04:59, leave it to deever said:

Hey PaulRB but their already robotically programmed to reward certain players( we know who they are) and penalise others.

Certainly deaf to any criticism.

As i understand the situation, the pending potential Dual Brownlow Medallist has given away at least three maybe four free kicks in the last three Games. Of course that only means that he is not the Fairest, but hey.

In fact there is probably Two players in question Cripps and Neale

  On 03/07/2024 at 01:51, leave it to deever said:

I don't mind watching some teams on the wrong end of umps calls.

But it is getting more noticeable.

Same for me. I'm embarrassed at the number of times I have had to say "ridiculous free (or missed free), but since I'm barracking against X, I can't complain".

  On 03/07/2024 at 01:57, sue said:

Same for me. I'm embarrassed at the number of times I have had to say "ridiculous free (or missed free), but since I'm barracking against X, I can't complain".

The umpiring against Essendon in the third quarter on Saturday night was an absolute disgrace…

and some of the best TV I’ve ever watched.

I was genuinely concerned at the North game, purely for the inconsistency through the game. I watched it back, and just felt like it so up and down for both teams (though of course I was more aware of the Dees ones). I didn't recognize the umpire list, but that doesn't mean too much. But I do wonder if there is enough depth in the umpire ranks.

  On 30/06/2024 at 11:41, Older demon said:

Whatever happens I find it hard to watch our games let alone any others the umpiring is so inconsistent and unpredictable and influencing results.

Something has to be done to restrict this haemorrhage in the integrity of our game. Very soon, in real time, a loss - for any club - will represent umpiring with a purpose, not an impartial responsibility.