6 hours ago, Dee Viney Intervention said:

Midfield has gone backwards

I suspect that many are overlooking that we've lost one of our key mids/on-ballers in Brayshaw. Also, a heart and soul player who lifted those around him.

Bigger loss than is being acknowledged I feel.

52 minutes ago, binman said:

Yes, that's my take.

We will largely revert to 'our' tried and true method, but hopefully retaining some of the elements of our current method, eg hitting some high risk corridor kicks, using the lions style 20 metre foreard kicks on rhe 45, and some run and dare off the hb. 

Nice theory. Not disagreeing either because who of us really knows? But we still need to finish top 4 to have a real chance, so the keep your powder dry till finals strategy is not without risk.

1 hour ago, M_9 said:

Leigh Montagna pulling Saints forward structure to pieces . Ranked last in most categories. 
Petty playing back (if it happens) will have a field day.

Yes would not mind Petty in defence. I recall it worked well in 2021 , hmmm yes our premiership year.  

1 hour ago, bing181 said:

But we still need to finish top 4 to have a real chance, so the keep your powder dry till finals strategy is not without risk.

Agree.

Though of course every strategy has risk. 

We were cooked come finals in 2022.

I actually think they were in good shape condition wise last year, but were cruelled by injury. 

1 hour ago, bing181 said:

I suspect that many are overlooking that we've lost one of our key mids/on-ballers in Brayshaw. Also, a heart and soul player who lifted those around him.

Bigger loss than is being acknowledged I feel.

Don’t disagree that Angus is a massive loss and we are effectively currently two players short on our list. I don’t think the balance of our list is all that great. We have a whole heap of talls that are either finding their feet or banged and gone on a year too long or one that has been sent to play b grade in the ammo’s to get some game time. We haven’t drafted a pure midfielder in quite a while. Who are the pure midfielders at Casey? Casey can’t run out games because they are too too heavy.
 

On 22/05/2024 at 17:06, titan_uranus said:

And I fully agree with you that our midfielders are down on previous years, which is something I don't think Binman agrees with.

@titan_uranus No, I do agree our midfield is down on previous years, at least in terms of looking at them individually.

But we lost gus on the eve of the season.

And clarry, whilst performing remarkably well given his interrupted preseason, is not yet back to his best. 

And it didn't help losing Bowser in round one, which meant salo had to go back.

Nor did it help salo also getting injured.

Against that viney has been terrific, ditto tracc and Max.  

What I have been arguing is that the midfield isn't really a significant issue for us. The forward line is a much better issue.

Midfields are simply not as important as they were even two seasons ago.

Scores from clearances were something 60-70% of total score when goody took over as coach.

It's now only 20-30%, with scores from turnover being the main score source.

I mean you only have to look at the game we just played.

Seven years ago if we were plus 21 for scores from stoppages we win most games.

Not now, particularly when our opponents absolutely smash us on scores from turnover.

Yes mids play a role in creating turnovers and scoring from them, but no more than the high half forwards and wingers and less than intercepting defenders and half back flankers.

Edited May 23, 20241 yr by binman

16 hours ago, binman said:

@titan_uranus No, I do agree our midfield is down on previous years, at least in terms of looking at them individually.

But we lost gus in the eve of the finals. And clarry, whilst performing remarkably well given his interrupted preseasons, is not yet back to his best. 

And it didn't help losing Bowser in round one, which meant salo had to go back. Nor did it help salo also getting injured.

Against that viney had been terrific, ditto tracc and Max.  

What I have been arguing is that the midfield isn't really a significant issue. The forward line is a much better issue.

Midfields are simply not as important as they were even two seasons ago.

Scores from clearances were something 60-70% of total score when goody took over as coach.

It's now only 20-30%, with scores from turnover being the main score source.

I mean you only have to look at the game we just played. Seven years ago if we were plus 21 for scores from stoppages we win most games.

Not now, particularly when our opponents absolutely smash us on scores from turnover.

Yes mids play a role in creating turnovers and scoring from them, but no more than the high half forwards and wingers and less than intercepting defenders and half back flankers.

99 problems, and the mids ain't one.

Edited May 23, 20241 yr by binman

5 hours ago, bing181 said:

I suspect that many are overlooking that we've lost one of our key mids/on-ballers in Brayshaw. Also, a heart and soul player who lifted those around him.

Bigger loss than is being acknowledged I feel.

Last year they mic’d up Bradshaw during a match (from memory, it was that horrid game against the Giants at Traeger Park). I was so impressed by his on-field leadership. Had no idea just how deep this side of his game went. 

It’s not recommended viewing right now. Too sad, and agreed, an all too clear indication of a loss that can’t be overstated enough. 

Very grateful for the fact he’s still a presence at the club, but man do I miss his presence where it’s needed most. 

Edited May 22, 20241 yr by Mel Bourne

On 22/05/2024 at 08:41, chook fowler said:

I'm sure getting our asses kicked by MethCoast wasn't part of the grand plan

No. 

Getting their asses kicked by the 16th placed hawks probably wasn't part of last seasons two grand finalists grand plan either.

Perhaps we can strip the pies of their flag.

 

Edited May 22, 20241 yr by binman

27 minutes ago, binman said:

No. 

Getting their asses kicked by the 16th placed hawks probably wasn't part last seasons two grand finalists grand plan either.

Perhaps we can strip the pies of their flag.

 

if only we could

McAdam needs time — he’ll prove his worth!

Petty goes back, it’s that simple. Seston (unlikely) or K Brown to get blooded, or Kolt in. Lingers & JVR return for Brown & Billings perhaps 

Edited May 22, 20241 yr by Tolstoys Nudge
Brain fart

1 hour ago, binman said:

No. 

Getting their asses kicked by the 16th placed hawks probably wasn't part of last seasons two grand finalists grand plan either.

Perhaps we can strip the pies of their flag.

 

At end of day it all comes back to each week not being a darn indicator of a teams flag chances — factors can be small margins in a comp this tight.. we need some luck but we’ve not played anywhere NEAR best footy yet, and we will eventually so I can’t see how we miss top 4 but Lever hurts answer HAS to be Petty back for that long a period Tommo isn’t answer!  

1 hour ago, binman said:

No. 

Getting their asses kicked by the 16th placed hawks probably wasn't part of last seasons two grand finalists grand plan either.

Perhaps we can strip the pies of their flag.

 

A loss late season when all your key metrics are healthy can often be a blip. However, a loss when lots of your key metrics are unhealthy can often point to a more significant issue that many on here are overlooking.

We’re 17th from scores from turnover (Only Richmond is worse) over the last 5 matches and we’ve got a midfield mix who have next to nothing score involvement averages (apart from Trac).

A win this week will be nice, but honestly all I want is to kick a healthy score off turnover and an improvement in score involvements across our mids.

Freo are also the best team at moving the ball so it doesn’t get better next week.

 

I just want to see something rather than nothing...this whole "trust the system" line is tired and guess what, it didn't work!  Please think on your feet and do something different because the results are saying we need to do something different, even if just to get the players a bit more excited about life and footy, they just all look flat and tired...like this "system" perhaps.

Mix it up coaches!!!

On 21/05/2024 at 20:37, Demonsone said:

Great to see Petracca laughing on how he couldn’t catch Reid on afl 360 

he was actually catching him, just off balance when pushed off and seemed to be expecting someone else to stop him.

when he saw he was away he chased , made up ground but not enough to affect a tackle or stop the kick.

Goodwin does seem to have so much faith in the process that he doesnt employ taggers. Might be something he considers when opposition teams match up with depth in mid field 

im not too concerned where we sit in the eight as i think the system we have combined with our effectiveness on surges is good enough to beat any side. 

We dont want to waste our significant advantages by exposing it every week. 

We have a good list which does go quite deep but not all combinations work. Im happy that we are putting more players on the park giving them exposure and making them aware of what they  need to develop. 

The surge / burst is based around Max Trac Clarry and Viney, we dont want their effectiveness blunted by opponents watching a set structure each week. Keep the system for finals, yes use it regularly to ensure it is almost intuitive, but modify and even completely change it to not only have alternatives available but also to not allow opponents to prepare strategies to counter it.

14 hours ago, bing181 said:

I suspect that many are overlooking that we've lost one of our key mids/on-ballers in Brayshaw. Also, a heart and soul player who lifted those around him.

Bigger loss than is being acknowledged I feel.

Every club is missing a top player. This isn’t an excuse. Sydney hasn’t had their captain all season, Brisbane have 4 player with acl’s, Collingwood have 10 starters on their injury report and Fremantle have lose Oscar McDonald lol…

 

Van Rooyen was greatly missed

Based on training it’s;

JVR for Brown

Tomlinson for Lever

Langdon for ?

Will not surprised if we lost this one too. St Kilda are under the pump and will match us in the middle of the ground based on form. 

My MFCSS is on full throttle so there is no stopping my anxiety about this game. Our top 4 chances are on the line in this game, lose it and we almost need to go undefeated for the remainder of the season to make up for it. We cannot be dropping any more games. 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

St Kilda are under the pump

....and the Demons aren't?

52 minutes ago, FTB said:

Based on training it’s;

JVR for Brown

Tomlinson for Lever

Langdon for ?

Please be Billings!

Goody also said in his presser that Seston is closing in.  I have a feeling he could be a very good Sub player.

2 hours ago, dpositive said:

he was actually catching him, just off balance when pushed off and seemed to be expecting someone else to stop him.

when he saw he was away he chased , made up ground but not enough to affect a tackle or stop the kick.

Goodwin does seem to have so much faith in the process that he doesnt employ taggers. Might be something he considers when opposition teams match up with depth in mid field 

Reid tag wouldn’t have done a thing — maybe avoids that one GOTY but only MAYBE! I am actually glad Trac laughed it off, we prefer him Moping about it & letting it hurt his pride do we? We’ll get em back.

 

Interestingly — seems it’s Tommo over Petty playing back which for me is the wrong call, just can’t see him intercepting whereas Petty would be perfect in that role! But we will see, hope for Tommo he nails-it & maybe even gives us enough for some compo if a club pays him enough. I’d actually prefer he stay for depth but we all know that ain’t happening.

Turnover game will get a good test this weekend with sloppy-saints, need to generate better shots! Mcadam 2nd up I’m backing 💯 & with JVR I think he’ll be more dangerous.. can’t wait!