37 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Does having an injured collarbone/shoulder affect fitness? Shouldn't Bowey be able to maintain his fitness level during his recovery?

I'm going to presume last night's performance was an aberration and assume wholesale changes aren't required. The forwards can hardly be blamed for not getting near the ball when the midfield was so soundly beaten. However, if it's possible, I'd like to persist with Rivers in the midfield. He's got pace, defensive skills when needed and unlike a lot of our midfield is capable of kicking on either foot. He's the perfect Brayshaw replacement.   

Bowser was back running about a week after the surgery and is now back in non contact training. Assuming a good base level of fitness over summer and that they can have him do plenty of footy type moving he should be right to go once he gets the all clear on the collarbone.

But it clearly isn't the 3-4 week collarbone that guys like Hogan have recovered from quickly where they bang a plate in that's stronger than bone and you're good to go pretty much as soon as the pain is tolerable. Something - either displacement, disruption of the AC joint, fractures in multiple parts - has required a longer lay off to get proper healing.

58 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Does having an injured collarbone/shoulder affect fitness? Shouldn't Bowey be able to maintain his fitness level during his recovery?

I'm going to presume last night's performance was an aberration and assume wholesale changes aren't required. The forwards can hardly be blamed for not getting near the ball when the midfield was so soundly beaten. However, if it's possible, I'd like to persist with Rivers in the midfield. He's got pace, defensive skills when needed and unlike a lot of our midfield is capable of kicking on either foot. He's the perfect Brayshaw replacement.   

Bowser was back running about a week after the surgery and is now back in non contact training. Assuming a good base level of fitness over summer and that they can have him do plenty of footy type moving at training over the next 4 weeks he should be right to go once he gets the all clear on the collarbone.

But it clearly isn't the 3-4 week collarbone that guys like Hogan have recovered from quickly where they bang a plate in that's stronger than bone and you're good to go pretty much as soon as the pain is tolerable. Something - either displacement, disruption of the AC joint, fractures in multiple parts - has required a longer lay off to get proper healing.

2 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

I'm definitely open to pushing Windsor behind the ball more, particularly now that we're down both Bowey and Salem (good kicks x 2). I'm also very much in favour of pushing Rivers into the middle more but without Bowey and Salem, that robs us of so much run. Hence the Windsor move, which as you say then opens up a spot for Hunter. Goodwin alluded to this as an option in his mid-week presser, when asked about how Hunter gets back into the side, so I reckon it's a reasonable chance of happening.

Brown and Petty were both bad last night, albeit at least Petty has the excuse of having Harris Andrews as his opponent. On last night's evidence one should be dropped, but the principal problem last night was the belting we got in the middle. When we have been strong in the middle, Brown's presence forward has been very important for us. I think we need to cut him and Petty some slack for last night.

I agree that the issue is in the middle. Will Oliver's injury improve over the break? If it does not, I would definitely be playing Rivers as a centre midfielder, even if it causes further instability in the back half. We need to do better at clearance and Oliver is a liability with only one hand. (I would probably still play him if we are convinced it won't make the injury worse, but as a high half forward.)

And the issue with Brown and Petty is not just a last night thing. The lack of pressure from Brown, Petty, JVR and Fritsch means we can only play three IMO.

49 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

I agree that the issue is in the middle. Will Oliver's injury improve over the break? If it does not, I would definitely be playing Rivers as a centre midfielder, even if it causes further instability in the back half. We need to do better at clearance and Oliver is a liability with only one hand. (I would probably still play him if we are convinced it won't make the injury worse, but as a high half forward.)

And the issue with Brown and Petty is not just a last night thing. The lack of pressure from Brown, Petty, JVR and Fritsch means we can only play three IMO.

I agree, start from the middle with our best available centre bounce rotation - and use rotations, Kozzy, ANB and Chandler even Kolt if he stays in the team can provide spells for Tracc and Sparrow who give the forward line more size. 

And also start from a run and movement basis up forward, if we get out marked so be it.

I don't agree with Oliver anywhere else but on ball. If he's not healthy and confident in his ability to use his hand sit him for as long as required. He's going to need to mark, tackle, win the ball in congestion anywhere on the field.

 

13 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

It's too early to make definitive calls, but I'll try anyway.

Pickett straight back in for Tholstrup. Was nice seeing his debut but he's not ready and shouldn't have played (not the first time we've got that wrong this year, we have to get better).

Presumably Salem misses. I actually liked Woey's efforts at half-back and wouldn't be against him getting a full game down there. But would be amazing if Hore was fit as he'd be the perfect replacement IMO (push Rivers up more and have Hore cover down back more).

Oliver can't play again with this level of impairment in his hand. If he hasn't improved sufficiently he has to be left out to heal and someone else has to play that role. But if that happens, our depth is going to be really tested as we just don't have the list depth in the middle.

Could see Hunter getting Billings' spot too.

Not sure what else we can do, other than dropping one of Brown or Petty and trying a different look. That might be easier when McAdam's fit but he will need time in the VFL first.

Even money bet that kozzie gets rubbed out again this year for what I will call a high bump.

 

27 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I agree, start from the middle with our best available centre bounce rotation - and use rotations, Kozzy, ANB and Chandler even Kolt if he stays in the team can provide spells for Tracc and Sparrow who give the forward line more size. 

And also start from a run and movement basis up forward, if we get out marked so be it.

I don't agree with Oliver anywhere else but on ball. If he's not healthy and confident in his ability to use his hand sit him for as long as required. He's going to need to mark, tackle, win the ball in congestion anywhere on the field.

 

It depends if playing makes Oliver's injury worse. Oliver is still giving more than Woewodin and Tholstup.

I’m not sure the hand is Clarrie’s only problem- looks heavy and slow

25 minutes ago, Fat Tony said:

It depends if playing makes Oliver's injury worse. Oliver is still giving more than Woewodin and Tholstup.

Is he thought? He didn’t look any better than Woey at half back. Both looked fairly out of place. So surely that’s not an option again.

And we’ll probably have Hore or maybe AMW in that role against Richmond.

And who knows how he’d go at half forward but if he can’t tackle, mark or handball on his main side what’s he giving?

He doesn’t really bring speed, pressure, elite endurance or great kicking in a flanker role either. Kolt has some work to do on his ball use and ball winning but his pressure and tackling at least were there.

The injury might not be made worse by playing but I get the feeling it’s not been made better. Can’t be good for his confidence either.

 

6 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

I forgot about Billings.  Possibly Moniz for him if he hits the mark this week at Casey?

One of the most insipid performances i've seen in the red & blue last night.

That's a huge overreaction unless you were born in 2015. 

9 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Is he thought? He didn’t look any better than Woey at half back. Both looked fairly out of place. So surely that’s not an option again.

And we’ll probably have Hore or maybe AMW in that role against Richmond.

And who knows how he’d go at half forward but if he can’t tackle, mark or handball on his main side what’s he giving?

He doesn’t really bring speed, pressure, elite endurance or great kicking in a flanker role either. Kolt has some work to do on his ball use and ball winning but his pressure and tackling at least were there.

The injury might not be made worse by playing but I get the feeling it’s not been made better. Can’t be good for his confidence either.

I agree that Oliver should not be played at half back. My main issue with Oliver in the midfield is the centre clearances.

Great opportunity for Hunter, Turner, Fullerton, AMW and Jefferson to make a good impression the next 2 weeks at Casey.

In - Pickett, Fullerton, Hunter - - - - Out - Brown, Salem, Tholstrup

B - Howes, May, McVee

HB - Rivers, McDonald, Lever

C - Langdon, Viney, Hunter

HF - Pickett, van Rooyen, Neal-Bullen

F - Fritsch, Petty, Chandler

Ruck - Gawn, Oliver, Petracca

Int - Windsor, Fullerton, Sparrow, Billings

23rd - Woewodin

2 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

I agree that the issue is in the middle. Will Oliver's injury improve over the break? If it does not, I would definitely be playing Rivers as a centre midfielder, even if it causes further instability in the back half. We need to do better at clearance and Oliver is a liability with only one hand. (I would probably still play him if we are convinced it won't make the injury worse, but as a high half forward.)

And the issue with Brown and Petty is not just a last night thing. The lack of pressure from Brown, Petty, JVR and Fritsch means we can only play three IMO.

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

I agree, start from the middle with our best available centre bounce rotation - and use rotations, Kozzy, ANB and Chandler even Kolt if he stays in the team can provide spells for Tracc and Sparrow who give the forward line more size. 

And also start from a run and movement basis up forward, if we get out marked so be it.

I don't agree with Oliver anywhere else but on ball. If he's not healthy and confident in his ability to use his hand sit him for as long as required. He's going to need to mark, tackle, win the ball in congestion anywhere on the field.

 

I'm with @DeeSpencer on this. Oliver has to play predominant midfield or not at all. Last night he was just a complete fraction of his usual self and it's clear to me the FD realised it and left him at half-back accordingly. 

I'm in the minority on this, I know, but I thought Woey was OK across half-back last night. I think we need to put more minutes into him so I'd be looking for ways to keep him in the side.

I think we can cover for Rivers moving up the ground, particularly once Hore and Salem come back in 3-5 weeks (I assume), but until then I think we have to focus on the midfield and deal with the backline as best we can, rather than the other way around.

I get the pressure issue with Brown/JVR/Petty/Fritsch but it's easier to cover when Pickett plays and Brown made us much better in the previous weeks when we weren't constantly on the back foot stoppage-wise. I'm not going to be mad if we make a change there but for the same reasons as above, our focus IMO has to be on maximising our stoppage game. There aren't players on our list capable of generating winning scores without a good midfield performance to help them.

 

Anyone has any inside word on the severity of Salem's hamstring?

Can't say I am shocked that he's played 5 consecutive games only to break down with a soft tissue injury. Such a shame.

Hunter for Billings

Kozzy for Tholstrup

Hore for Salem

 

Feeling a bit for Yze.  Taranto and Ross on top of the litany of other injuries. 

2 minutes ago, Swooper1987 said:

Feeling a bit for Yze.  Taranto and Ross on top of the litany of other injuries. 

Yze is the enemy now!

2 minutes ago, Swooper1987 said:

Feeling a bit for Yze.  Taranto and Ross on top of the litany of other injuries. 

I'll feel more sorry for us if we don't win by 6 goals+. They'll have half a VFL side out there.  

1 hour ago, SthSea22 said:

Great opportunity for Hunter, Turner, Fullerton, AMW and Jefferson to make a good impression the next 2 weeks at Casey.

In - Pickett, Fullerton, Hunter - - - - Out - Brown, Salem, Tholstrup

B - Howes, May, McVee

HB - Rivers, McDonald, Lever

C - Langdon, Viney, Hunter

HF - Pickett, van Rooyen, Neal-Bullen

F - Fritsch, Petty, Chandler

Ruck - Gawn, Oliver, Petracca

Int - Windsor, Fullerton, Sparrow, Billings

23rd - Woewodin

 

41 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Hunter for Billings

Kozzy for Tholstrup

Hore for Salem

 

You don’t think perhaps the selectors have had some “learnings” having disastrously played Spargo in round 0 without any match play at all - Hunter needs a few games at Casey IMO before being considered. 
Similarly (almost) is Hore actually ready - if so, sure in for Salem.?

And Fullerton needs to show something at Casey and is not an automatic in IMO

 

3 minutes ago, monoccular said:

 

You don’t think perhaps the selectors have had some “learnings” having disastrously played Spargo in round 0 without any match play at all - Hunter needs a few games at Casey IMO before being considered. 
Similarly (almost) is Hore actually ready - if so, sure in for Salem.?

And Fullerton needs to show something at Casey and is not an automatic in IMO

 

We don't have other options, depth is putrid 

Fullerton can take ruck duties which let's JVR focus more forward

Brown to Casey 

If we're half serious we should be winning this one by 6+ goals with all their injuries. They have an obscene injury list at the moment.

6 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

i fully expect, given the rest that we've now got ahead of us, that the football dept will back the team that was performing well before the flat game vs bears

OUT: salem, billings
IN: hunter, pickett

This is pretty spot on, but I think our forward line balance will be reviewed. I think it took till the last quarter for any of our tall forwards to even have a shot at goal. 

31 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

If we're half serious we should be winning this one by 6+ goals with all their injuries. They have an obscene injury list at the moment.

They had most of these injuries two weeks ago when they beat Sydney.

Take no one for granted. The competition has never been more even.

Also Clarry can’t pick up the footy and is looking like someone who needs a mini pre season.