7 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Also a huge difference in age profile/experience, number of pre-seasons etc.

Perhaps I should rephrase the original: I'd be surprised if there's much difference in fitness programs across the AFL.

It’s a little more nuanced than that in an industry where every club is trying to make improvements of 1-2%, which can translate to 5 goals.

Clarrie isn’t putting Selwyn down – it’s just that there is no other Burgess.

Oliver said our strength and conditioning has gone downhill since Burgess left. Amazed anyone could think that's not insulting to the current strength and conditioning team.

Even if it’s between the ears, there is absolutely no question we are not as ‘fit’ as we were in 2020-2021-2022.

Burgo was all about pushing players when they were ready to stop, giving them belief to go again and again.

Adelaide have recruited well but they are looking super fit and strong, much like we used to

Edited Thursday at 10:561 day by BW511

Given Bucks is a fitness freak himself and one of the best prepared players ever, he's going to know a thing or two about fitness. If he's got doubts on their program, I reckon Selwyn will be one of the first to go.

When Burgess was departing the club, I happened to be talking to a mate who is working as part of a strength & conditioning team at another AFL club.

I asked him - “Burgess is well known to be the number 1 man in the industry, outside of him, who is the next best rated?

His answer surprised me.

He said, “you’ve already got him - Selwyn Griffith”.

I agree, fitness was an issue, but remember they don’t run the whole thing.

There was a clear message at the start of preseason. Day 1 - normally we do 2km time trial and straight into heavy fitness.

This year - it was more viewed to work on building the love as the priority early on. Maybe the consequence of rebuilding connection was a little less fitness. And a little less might make all the difference.

So maybe it might be a time for change, but I wouldn’t point the fitness problem just at him.

34 minutes ago, BW511 said:

Even if it’s between the ears, there is absolutely no question we are not as ‘fit’ as we were in 2020-2021-2022.

Burgo was all about pushing players when they were ready to stop, giving them belief to go again and again.

Adelaide have recruited well but they are looking super fit and strong, much like we used to

Hmmm …playing the oldest team …how’d that going ?

4 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

How many did we win when we were 2 goals down to say 5 goals up (or 8 in the case of the saints game)?

Winning them when you’re 6+ goals down but never threatening or 6 goals up and the other team has packed it in doesn’t mean much.

In close games we seemed to consistently run out of puff.

You’re spot on and the only win of note where we grinded out a hard fought close win while out scoring the oppo in the last qtr was the Brisbane win.

The fact that we could barely ever grind out a close last quarter and subsequent win should put him under pressure.

Still surprising we won 10 last quarters nontheless.

1 hour ago, WiseDeeMan said:

When Burgess was departing the club, I happened to be talking to a mate who is working as part of a strength & conditioning team at another AFL club.

I asked him - “Burgess is well known to be the number 1 man in the industry, outside of him, who is the next best rated?

His answer surprised me.

He said, “you’ve already got him - Selwyn Griffith”.

I agree, fitness was an issue, but remember they don’t run the whole thing.

There was a clear message at the start of preseason. Day 1 - normally we do 2km time trial and straight into heavy fitness.

This year - it was more viewed to work on building the love as the priority early on. Maybe the consequence of rebuilding connection was a little less fitness. And a little less might make all the difference.

So maybe it might be a time for change, but I wouldn’t point the fitness problem just at him.

All good points, well made.

As part of efforts to change the vibe, they also changed up training days.

And, after being almost injury free before Xmas (with XL's PCL a notable exception, we had a horror run in January and February with injuries which put us behind the 8 ball.

And atvthevend of the players have to bare some responsibility-even with all the tech and data only they know if they are truly giving 110% (and some probably think they are but in reality aren't)

6 hours ago, Ted Lasso said:

I feel like he's not trying to insult anyone, he's trying to compliment Burgo and he's just worded it really really poorly.

Correct. 'Going downhill' refers to the team performance. It's not a direct comment on the performance of the current fitness staff. Storm in a teacup.

Just also adding that having a training session the day before a game is madness.

Go for a 5k and then back it up the next day with 10.

Then the next week do 5 again but wait a day and then do 10 and see how much faster you do the 10 than the week before.

6 hours ago, biggestred said:

Just also adding that having a training session the day before a game is madness.

Go for a 5k and then back it up the next day with 10.

Then the next week do 5 again but wait a day and then do 10 and see how much faster you do the 10 than the week before.

Captains run the day before a game is not bothering anyone, it’s standard practise to get the body moving.

Recreational enthusiasts (think runners and cyclists) would be doing a hell of a lot more hours than our guys can imagine, so it’s just the sequence that seems off to me.

At a guess, I’d say the main session being so close to games is an attempt to bring the training stress levels up, so we are not going backwards from a numbers perspective, although I think it hasn’t worked out - to the eye at least.

3 hours ago, WiseDeeMan said:

When Burgess was departing the club, I happened to be talking to a mate who is working as part of a strength & conditioning team at another AFL club.

I asked him - “Burgess is well known to be the number 1 man in the industry, outside of him, who is the next best rated?

His answer surprised me.

He said, “you’ve already got him - Selwyn Griffith”.

I agree, fitness was an issue, but remember they don’t run the whole thing.

There was a clear message at the start of preseason. Day 1 - normally we do 2km time trial and straight into heavy fitness.

This year - it was more viewed to work on building the love as the priority early on. Maybe the consequence of rebuilding connection was a little less fitness. And a little less might make all the difference.

So maybe it might be a time for change, but I wouldn’t point the fitness problem just at him.

Personally think Burgess gets mythologized a bit too much. Yes we were fit and uninjured during 2021 but that was a year where literally everything was going right for the club. He was there the following year when we were cooked at the end of the season and bungled out in straight sets too.

People have been praising his work at Adelaide. But they didn't make finals in their first two years under him and couldn't run out the game against Collingwood last night.

A lot has to go right for clubs and fitness is just a part of the bigger picture.

57 minutes ago, KozzyCan said:

Personally think Burgess gets mythologized a bit too much. Yes we were fit and uninjured during 2021 but that was a year where literally everything was going right for the club. He was there the following year when we were cooked at the end of the season and bungled out in straight sets too.

People have been praising his work at Adelaide. But they didn't make finals in their first two years under him and couldn't run out the game against Collingwood last night.

A lot has to go right for clubs and fitness is just a part of the bigger picture.

He left at the end of 2021. The 2022 falling in a heap was under Selwyn.

Also, not sure fitness had anything to do with last night. The Crows pressed pretty hard and their pressure was up but Collingwood's defence was too organised.

9 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

He left at the end of 2021. The 2022 falling in a heap was under Selwyn.

Also, not sure fitness had anything to do with last night. The Crows pressed pretty hard and their pressure was up but Collingwood's defence was too organised.

Fair enough. Though that's just another year under him where crows didn't do much.

17 hours ago, KozzyCan said:

Clarry... Mate. It's time to stop talking to the media.

If you've got two eyes and you know what to look for then its pretty simple to see our last quarter demise since 22.

Our Fitness decline along with recruitment have been our biggest failures as a whole club.

Who ever takes charge of our club i hope he installs his own fitness Guru as we are well in need of a change.

Bye bye Selwyn time is well and truely up.

32 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

He left at the end of 2021. The 2022 falling in a heap was under Selwyn.

Also, not sure fitness had anything to do with last night. The Crows pressed pretty hard and their pressure was up but Collingwood's defence was too organised.

The Crows ch it the bed, not enough experience.

1 minute ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

If you've got two eyes and you know what to look for then its pretty simple to see our last quarter demise since 22.

Our Fitness decline along with recruitment have been our biggest failures as a whole club.

Who ever takes charge of our club i hope he installs his own fitness Guru as we are well in need of a change.

Bye bye Selwyn time is well and truely up.

Happy for him to be moved in if that's what the club thinks is best. Not convinced he deserves as much blame as he gets.

11 hours ago, binman said:

All good points, well made.

As part of efforts to change the vibe, they also changed up training days.

And, after being almost injury free before Xmas (with XL's PCL a notable exception, we had a horror run in January and February with injuries which put us behind the 8 ball.

And atvthevend of the players have to bare some responsibility-even with all the tech and data only they know if they are truly giving 110% (and some probably think they are but in reality aren't)

Agree @binman …I’ve been fortunate to train with many elite level athletes including many Olympians. I’ve been in squads that have had Olympic athletes, athletes that weren’t quite at that level, and others that were no where near it.

Same coach, same message, same program, yet some were multiple Olympic Gold medalists, and others - nobodies.

So what was the difference?

I mean yes we can talk physical advantages - but I can largely say its application (mindset). Willing to push themselves more than anyone else. Day in day out. Never excuses. With the down days, the drop off is minimal.

I vividly remember one morning, one of Australia’s greatest athletes that everyone would know, pushing himself so much he projectile vomited. Took a few deep breaths and then went again for the next rep of the main set. While most others in the squad, were just not willing to go to that level (maybe they were the sensible ones!).

There is an interesting paradox however - This particular coach here, would either make or break athletes. He had Olympic Gold Medalists, but would burn out a hundred other athletes to get that 1.

The art of being a great coach in any area, is being able to effectively influence each athlete, or in this case, player. It’s the ability to get the most out of each individual, not just a portion. To know what buttons to push.

And that is a different skill set than the programming piece.

Purely an opinion from the outside here, but based on what ive seen (relying on footage) - this is where Burgess seems elite.

It’s the ‘coach’ side of him that gets the buy in from each and every player.

This is where the gold lies in my view.

We had mental toughness about us at that time. From what I see currently - we now don’t.

Whether this is all tied together here, I do not know, but my guess is it is.

Time will tell…

18 hours ago, Ghostwriter said:

Unbelievable… where in that comment does Clarrie bag Selwyn? Someone please point it out coz I’m not seeing it. “Reading between the lines,” I imagine ppl saying. Yeah nah, with Clarrie you don’t ever need to read between the lines.

He was asked about who might win tonight. He answered the question which included glowing praise for Burgo and deservedly so. Why do people assume that by praising Burgo Clarrie’s sch!ttt-canning Selwyn? Ffs get off his case.

Did he say this

"Then we won the flag the next year, and then he left, and we bowed out in two straight finals and it’s gone downhill since"

How do you interpret that statement?

Players dropped the ball?

Fitness program not up to scratch?

19 hours ago, BW511 said:

Even if it’s between the ears, there is absolutely no question we are not as ‘fit’ as we were in 2020-2021-2022.

Burgo was all about pushing players when they were ready to stop, giving them belief to go again and again.

Adelaide have recruited well but they are looking super fit and strong, much like we used to

Adelaide's biggest weakness is their midfield.

You can paper over it in the minor rounds but in finals when the bigger bodies are needed around stoppages they've been found wanting in a big way.

Riley O Brien is very one dimensional, he will give you limited access in the middle and gives you nothing around the ground.

Once that access is taken away from you in the middle, you're in no man's land.

Their midfield mix got bullied by Filth's experience campaigners Dawson, Berry, Peatling, Cumming, Soligo and Rankin ain't getting it done in the big games.

The heat got applied to them and they wilted on the big stage.

Rankin was a big miss for them granted but I believe they are a quality ruckman and a stoppage king away from unlocking the game.

Would explain the reason why they went hard for Milera and in the mix for Sam Draper.

Until then I cant see them threatening a GF even with all those quality talls either end of the ground.

Edited 19 hours ago19 hr by YesitwasaWin4theAges

2 hours ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

Adelaide's biggest weakness is their midfield.

You can paper over it in the minor rounds but in finals when the bigger bodies are needed around stoppages they've been found wanting in a big way.

Riley O Brien is very one dimensional, he will give you limited access in the middle and gives you nothing around the ground.

Once that access is taken away from you in the middle, you're in no man's land.

Their midfield mix got bullied by Filth's experience campaigners Dawson, Berry, Peatling, Cumming, Soligo and Rankin ain't getting it done in the big games.

The heat got applied to them and they wilted on the big stage.

Rankin was a big miss for them granted but I believe they are a quality ruckman and a stoppage king away from unlocking the game.

Would explain the reason why they went hard for Milera and in the mix for Sam Draper.

Until then I cant see them threatening a GF even with all those quality talls either end of the ground.

I think I saw a graphic pre-match that said only 3 crows players had played in a final.

Collingwood had 20.

That’s a big difference to overcome, no matter how good your season has been.

5 hours ago, Sydee said:

Did he say this

"Then we won the flag the next year, and then he left, and we bowed out in two straight finals and it’s gone downhill since"

How do you interpret that statement?

Players dropped the ball?

Fitness program not up to scratch?

If it was pretty much any other player I’d concede that this might be a thinly-veiled dig at Selwyn. But not when it’s Clarrie. Honestly, Clarrie doesn’t allude, he doesn’t imply, he doesn’t speak “between the lines.”

He likely wouldn’t have even realised what could be read into his comment. And folks at the club would know this. Should anyone point it out to him he’d calmly say, “Nah, if I wanted to say that I would’ve said it” or similar.

That much-reported incident where he had angry words with Selwyn at training was totally overblown IMHO. Clarrie doesn’t even remember it. There’s definitely no lingering grudge, there never was. They get on really well.

23 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Given Bucks is a fitness freak himself and one of the best prepared players ever, he's going to know a thing or two about fitness. If he's got doubts on their program, I reckon Selwyn will be one of the first to go.

Didn’t he say last year that we looked to be carrying a bit of extra weight?

We have not been fit enough for a while. Hopefully that changes next year

44 minutes ago, GS_1905 said:

Didn’t he say last year that we looked to be carrying a bit of extra weight?

We have not been fit enough for a while. Hopefully that changes next year

Yep, he said that on the couch and it elicited a response from Goody in a presser who said the "boys had done the work" over the off season. Fitness has a been a problem for a couple of years now.

There’s no way we’re as fit as we need to be. I presume there’s more than just Griffith’s in charge of this but the buck surely stops with him. I’d be hoping the new coach demands a higher return.