nice work @Demonland

Great interview Andrew.

JT never gives too much away. But I think there are things you can deduce if you listen carefully.

He somewhat gave away Windsor was at least a little needs related, and watching how slow we’ve been between the arcs the last 2 years it’s not a surprise. Why do I get the feeling they wanted Windsor at 11 but he kept rising? When JT does he due diligence on a player the word probably gets around and other sides start circling.

I get the sense he’s excited by Tholstrup’s potential in a range of roles but also they really like the character and early indications are so do I!

He was probably a little more excited for Kynan Brown than I expected.

Aside from the 2 early picks I get the sense Jed Adams might be a favourite of JTs. Hope he gets through preseason healthy. 

On 23/11/2023 at 14:28, bluey said:

In July we held picks, 5, 13, 25, 33.

We had Brodes, Harmsey, Jordan, our premiership players.

Be nice to start again.

And achieve what exactly?

Harmes - McAdam. I'm more than happy with that. We've had nothing for Harmes to do for 2 years and have been crying out for a guy like McAdam to provide a mix of what Fritsch and Kossie do.

JJ - Billings. JJ might go on to be a player for the Swans but he was a free agent, we replaced him with a player who could be an immediate upgrade in a needs position.

Grundy - Fullarton. Personally I'd have liked to get in on the Brandon Ryan deal but Fullarton has a fair bit of upside and I'd rather have him than an unhappy and expensive Grundy.

33 was worthless in this draft. Would've ended up pick 40 on the night of the draft. We ended up with a spare pick 42 (44 come draft night) which we dealt for a future 3rd.

25 became 34 on draft night. Ended up at Carlton for Billy Wilson. 18, 34 and a pick we'd never use for 13 to get Tholstrup. Doesn't look so bad when Essendon and GWS gave up 2nd rounders to move 1 spot on draft night.

We've replenished our depth with better fits and drafted 2 talented kids. It's not flashy but the flashy moves often don't work out. Plus surely we're reloading with list spots and salary cap to be more aggressive next year.

29 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

And achieve what exactly?

Harmes - McAdam. I'm more than happy with that. We've had nothing for Harmes to do for 2 years and have been crying out for a guy like McAdam to provide a mix of what Fritsch and Kossie do.

JJ - Billings. JJ might go on to be a player for the Swans but he was a free agent, we replaced him with a player who could be an immediate upgrade in a needs position.

Grundy - Fullarton. Personally I'd have liked to get in on the Brandon Ryan deal but Fullarton has a fair bit of upside and I'd rather have him than an unhappy and expensive Grundy.

33 was worthless in this draft. Would've ended up pick 40 on the night of the draft. We ended up with a spare pick 42 (44 come draft night) which we dealt for a future 3rd.

25 became 34 on draft night. Ended up at Carlton for Billy Wilson. 18, 34 and a pick we'd never use for 13 to get Tholstrup. Doesn't look so bad when Essendon and GWS gave up 2nd rounders to move 1 spot on draft night.

We've replenished our depth with better fits and drafted 2 talented kids. It's not flashy but the flashy moves often don't work out. Plus surely we're reloading with list spots and salary cap to be more aggressive next year.

I don’t think it’s too hard to make a case that we paid overs to move up to 11.  Our original pick ended up being James Leake who I really like the look of and Darcy Wilson was still on the board. 25 & 33 is a lot more draft capital than we got for trading Grundy( an AA ruck). 
We didn’t have the list spots but could have traded into next year and  held a much stronger draft hand. 
JT said that the move up was two fold- to be in a position to grab a better player and to be in a better position to try and/or get one of the top picks which ultimately we were unable to get. 
We are normally quite aggrieved with our pick trades. It’s worked for us in the past. We probably lost this time round. 
 

2 minutes ago, Colm said:

I don’t think it’s too hard to make a case that we paid overs to move up to 11.  Our original pick ended up being James Leake who I really like the look of and Darcy Wilson was still on the board. 25 & 33 is a lot more draft capital than we got for trading Grundy( an AA ruck). 
We didn’t have the list spots but could have traded into next year and  held a much stronger draft hand. 
JT said that the move up was two fold- to be in a position to grab a better player and to be in a better position to try and/or get one of the top picks which ultimately we were unable to get. 
We are normally quite aggrieved with our pick trades. It’s worked for us in the past. We probably lost this time round. 
 

He also clearly stated that we were only ever going to take 2 players in the draft.

Thanks for doing the podcast. I was a touch underwhelmed...but only because Taylor played his cards so very close to his chest. It's not at all surprising that he thinks all the players he was asked about - which is everyone recruited or traded in in the last three years - have bright futures. What else could or would he say? I'm not sure I really learned anything we didn't already know.

Please don't misunderstand me. Taylor's job is to recruit the best available talent, not to be the best spruiker of that talent. I'm more than happy with what he does for his main job. And equally, very happy that he made himself available for the podcast. Well done, Andy.

56 minutes ago, Colm said:

I don’t think it’s too hard to make a case that we paid overs to move up to 11.  Our original pick ended up being James Leake who I really like the look of and Darcy Wilson was still on the board. 25 & 33 is a lot more draft capital than we got for trading Grundy( an AA ruck). 
We didn’t have the list spots but could have traded into next year and  held a much stronger draft hand. 
JT said that the move up was two fold- to be in a position to grab a better player and to be in a better position to try and/or get one of the top picks which ultimately we were unable to get. 
We are normally quite aggrieved with our pick trades. It’s worked for us in the past. We probably lost this time round. 
 

25 and 33 became 34 and 40 as the draft went on due to academies and father sons.

As I said. 40 had almost no value to us. We spun 44 for a Saints future 3rd. Do we need another future 3rd on top of that?

We used 34 to get up 3 spots to get Tholstrup.

Essendon gave up 36 for 1 spot.

GWS gave up a future 2nd in a deeper and less compromised draft to go 1 spot to get Leake.

We would’ve had to pay to get up one spot to get Leake. We weren’t ever linked to Wilson.

Clearly we thought getting above Sydney and St Kilda was important. 

There’s an argument to stay where we were at 18 and take Wilson, Edwards or DeMattia. 

The counters are; obviously JT has been good at this trade up business at times. We’ve committed the list spots to Billings, Hore, Melk, Ben Brown, T Mc and they all have value to try to win a flag now. We do have a solid crop of young talent now as is. And the second rounders in this draft weren’t worth more than mid year rookies, late picks, SSP additions etc in future years.

Well done Andy. My main takeaway from JT is that we must pronounce Coltyn's family name without the "h" so TOL- STRUP.

It's taken a couple of years to get the "o" out of Van Rooyen, so that it is Van ROY-YEN. 🙂

 

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

25 and 33 became 34 and 40 as the draft went on due to academies and father sons.

As I said. 40 had almost no value to us. We spun 44 for a Saints future 3rd. Do we need another future 3rd on top of that?

We used 34 to get up 3 spots to get Tholstrup.

Essendon gave up 36 for 1 spot.

GWS gave up a future 2nd in a deeper and less compromised draft to go 1 spot to get Leake.

We would’ve had to pay to get up one spot to get Leake. We weren’t ever linked to Wilson.

Clearly we thought getting above Sydney and St Kilda was important. 

There’s an argument to stay where we were at 18 and take Wilson, Edwards or DeMattia. 

The counters are; obviously JT has been good at this trade up business at times. We’ve committed the list spots to Billings, Hore, Melk, Ben Brown, T Mc and they all have value to try to win a flag now. We do have a solid crop of young talent now as is. And the second rounders in this draft weren’t worth more than mid year rookies, late picks, SSP additions etc in future years.

Your right about the pick for Leake. I forgot GWS traded up the spot with Saints. And Tim Lamb did say by moving up it allowed us access to a tier of players that we wouldn’t have had access to if we didn’t move up. 
 

Can’t really agree with you logic about the value of the picks we traded though.  We traded two good second round picks during trade week when they had their most value. When the Suns were trying to load up on points. We traded 42 to Saints at the worst possible time we there were few takers and everybody knew we wanted rid of it. Normally you would expect to improve your hand if you trade out early not worsen it. 

You mentioned the McAdam trade we traded our future 2nd to get him. Second rounders have good value especially early ones. The fact that we didn’t have list spot just mean we would had to  trade into next year. 
 

They way I see it we had an each way bet on the Harley Reid cup( and from listening to JT it sounds like WC were genuinely considering our offer).

We lost our win bet but collected the place in getting Koltyn to the club which  I’m very excited about. 

 

Great work Andy, as always! 
 

The great man has to be one of the best to get imho, and to all the MH haters, it was greys to hear JT mention Marty & how much he deserves his shot after being cruelly cut due to list size diminishing, hope he plays another 50+ games & shows his skills to all those numpties fuelled by negativity.

Well done on providing this content to all Demonlanders, appreciate your efforts. 
Some gems in the interview from Taylor who yes gives measured responses. 
Would be great to get Tim Lamb on a podcast, a natural talker who may divulge more with responses. 
 

37 minutes ago, Colm said:

Your right about the pick for Leake. I forgot GWS traded up the spot with Saints. And Tim Lamb did say by moving up it allowed us access to a tier of players that we wouldn’t have had access to if we didn’t move up. 
 

Can’t really agree with you logic about the value of the picks we traded though.  We traded two good second round picks during trade week when they had their most value. When the Suns were trying to load up on points. We traded 42 to Saints at the worst possible time we there were few takers and everybody knew we wanted rid of it. Normally you would expect to improve your hand if you trade out early not worsen it. 

You mentioned the McAdam trade we traded our future 2nd to get him. Second rounders have good value especially early ones. The fact that we didn’t have list spot just mean we would had to  trade into next year. 
 

They way I see it we had an each way bet on the Harley Reid cup( and from listening to JT it sounds like WC were genuinely considering our offer).

We lost our win bet but collected the place in getting Koltyn to the club which  I’m very excited about. 

 

I don’t think Adelaide would’ve accepted the pick that became 40 for McAdam. They didn’t use any second rounders this year. I don’t think that’s a good second round pick either. I think we only get a future third for it. 

Might’ve accepted (25) 34 and on traded it for a second. You’re right we could’ve done that too. No one traded out a second straight up so there’s no direct guide. I think we get a future second for it but not from a bad club.

Gold Coast were the only side trading down multiple spots at any stage of the first round, we took the chance to get it when we could.

I don’t see the relevance for Reid. If they didn’t want 6, 14, the second rounders and a future first then combining it to 11 doesn’t really convince them. From the Eagles perspective I’d have wanted the combo of more picks as they have a lot of needs and more list spots.

We have to trust JT when he says they got up a tier in the draft. With Sydney taking a ruckman (a good one but still), GWS trading up for about the same price for Leake, the Crows going for Charlie Edwards who’s raw as can be and North drafting project players if we didn’t want Wilson I can see it as a tier. 

On 28/11/2023 at 14:49, Demonland said:

He also clearly stated that we were only ever going to take 2 players in the draft.

He did  so, but firstly, great interview and thank you .If anyone wants to read the Twomey report today on Gettable,AFL website-  Twomey highlights that Melbourne tried everything to move up the table but would not go over the top,Gaining two likely types whom could break into the 22 or 23 in 2024.Another great job by Lamb and Taylor , a great coupling indeed.

Edited November 29, 20231 yr by jayceebee31
Spelling and add on.

Great work Andy. Awesome interview. 

Particularly loved the question of taking Windsor over Curtin. Hard question to ask of a such a special guest but you did a great job with that question. Showed a lot of tact. Exactly the question I wanted you to ask. Well done. 

3 hours ago, Pulp Fritschon said:

Particularly loved the question of taking Windsor over Curtin. Hard question to ask of a such a special guest but you did a great job with that question. Showed a lot of tact. 

Me too. I liked the answer. JT obviously thinks the Duke (Windsor) is a better footballer which is consistent with my assessment.

AFL to overhaul draft on Father/Son picks

“What’s that you say? The Dees have got three gun father son picks coming up? Time to put a stop to this!”

It’s about making clubs part with first round picks to secure F/S if their selection gets nominated in the first round, to stop what happened this year, with R1 bloating out to 29 picks.

The idea will be overseen by Geoff Walsh and was proposed by Graeme Allen (and Steven Wells) as soon as the Daicos boys were picked up for nothing.

2 hours ago, 3183 Dee said:

AFL to overhaul draft on Father/Son picks

“What’s that you say? The Dees have got three gun father son picks coming up? Time to put a stop to this!”

It’s about making clubs part with first round picks to secure F/S if their selection gets nominated in the first round, to stop what happened this year, with R1 bloating out to 29 picks.

The idea will be overseen by Geoff Walsh and was proposed by Graeme Allen (and Steven Wells) as soon as the Daicos boys were picked up for nothing.

Changes won’t come in until after the Lions get a second top 5 father and son pick next year. Typical AFL reaction. Allow it to massively advantage some clubs and then shut it down. 

2 hours ago, 3183 Dee said:

the Daicos boys were picked up for nothing.

Yes and no.  Josh was pick 57 and Nick pick 4.

10 minutes ago, Demonstone said:

Yes and no.  Josh was pick 57 and Nick pick 4.

Nick may have been chosen at pick 4 but he cost the Pies 38, 40 & 42.

4 hours ago, Colm said:

Changes won’t come in until after the Lions get a second top 5 father and son pick next year. Typical AFL reaction. Allow it to massively advantage some clubs and then shut it down. 

Yes …And the Dees begin their influx of F/S with Kalani White in 2025 and Marley Davey the year after, I believe.

Although, I think Noah Yze is available next year, but that doesn’t fit my narrative 😂

 

4 minutes ago, 3183 Dee said:

Yes …And the Dees begin their influx of F/S with Kalani White in 2025 and Marley Davey the year after, I believe.

Although, I think Noah Yze is available next year, but that doesn’t fit my narrative 😂

 

White seems a talent but there’s not really any evidence those guys will be really high picks. Or in White’s case even choose Melbourne. 

If they wait until every club has had a good run they’ll never close it. 

We got a great deal on Viney once upon a time.

More than happy to pay a fairer price if we do get highly rated guys. 

8 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

White seems a talent but there’s not really any evidence those guys will be really high picks. Or in White’s case even choose Melbourne. 

If they wait until every club has had a good run they’ll never close it. 

We got a great deal on Viney once upon a time.

More than happy to pay a fairer price if we do get highly rated guys. 

I know - but I’m still salty after they changed the NGA rules to give Mac Andrew to GC.

It does sound as though those players are rated quite highly, though.

Edited November 30, 20231 yr by 3183 Dee

13 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Or in White’s case even choose Melbourne. 

 

100% he will choose Melbourne. He is a die hard Melbourne man like his dad. 

4 minutes ago, 3183 Dee said:

I know - but I’m still salty after they changed the NGA rules to give Mac Andrew to GC.

It does sound as though those players are rated quite highly, though.

Personally I'm glad they changed it and we picked JVR rather than Mac. 

1 hour ago, 3183 Dee said:

Yes …And the Dees begin their influx of F/S with Kalani White in 2025 and Marley Davey the year after, I believe.

Although, I think Noah Yze is available next year, but that doesn’t fit my narrative 😂

 

Davey will be 2028 I believe, he is only turning 14 next year.

Be interested to see if Nathan Browns other children come through the system as well. Jake is two years younger than Kynan and Ryder is 4years his junior and is apparently a very good soccer player going off a previous MFC article.

Noah has a bit of work to do to put himself into draft contention.