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POSTGAME: Rd 22 vs Carlton

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Demonland
in Melbourne Demons

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I still reckon Goody has not played every hand possible this year and against Carlton either for that matter.

 

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      On 15/08/2023 at 03:21, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

    I still reckon Goody has not played every hand possible this year and against Carlton either for that matter.

     

    I’m of that thinking as well. Feels like we’ve something up our sleeve. Petty was a loss but I think Fritsch will counteract that. If we have Fritsch, Melksham and Petracca forward, along with JVR and a couple of smalls with Smith as sub I think we’re good to go

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    •  
      On 14/08/2023 at 18:39, JimmyGadson said:

    Carlton were cleaner and applied more pressure for longer than us.

    That was the game.

    Complaining about the umpires is a massive lol.

    I could count 80 examples of players fumbling, missing handballs, missing kicks, making bad decisions, ball watching.

    We did that more than them. And they won because of it.

    @binman and @Binmans PA (lol) 


    Thoughts on the games against Hawthorn and Sydney? Still confident we'll win both?

    @Binmans PA, love that you'll every excuse in the book to defend a loss! Not just that we were outplayed? Plain and simple? Structure! haha. 

    Carlton were missing about 5 top choice players and their midfield embarrassed us at times.

    I said Carlton were brilliant. They couldn't have played better and their personnel changes wouldn't have made much difference. They couldn't have won more inside 50s against us than they did in the first... whereas we can play a whole lot better.

    The thing that's disappointing about you Steve is you go as mute as a dead fish in our wins, not a bubble for 20 pages on a post game thread, but as soon as there's a loss, you're on here whinging away, flapping about on the pier.

    I'm fine with supporters venting and I do it myself, we all have different uses for Demonland, but you literally come on to whinge or froth over having draft picks. That's literally all you do anymore.

    You used to be an insightful poster. It's like you've been locked up by a terrorist for years and finally released, but you're not the same Steve. You're Jimmy... and Jimmy, frankly is a neggy nuffy. What happens if we win the flag?

    Edited by Binmans PA

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    • Like 2
    • Clap 3
      On 15/08/2023 at 03:07, beelzebub said:

    No..fair enough... but they came out with a seemingly different mindset..  We looked like we were looking to win the qtr...win the match.  They threw EVERYTHING and the kitchen sink at that first 10 mins.  I suspect Voss was planning on getting a break on us...forcing us to play catch up footy...which gets harder and  harder as those legs get heavier and heavier.

    Looks like 2 coaches...2 different ideas to those 30 mins.

    Strangely both weren't wrong...but one more right than the other..

    The old adage,  never give a sucker an even break...comes to mind.  We did...

    Salem and ANB kick theirs and Petracca’s goes 6 inches further and we win by 2 1/2 goals. 

    Edited by Roost it far

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      On 15/08/2023 at 03:26, Roost it far said:

    I’m of that thinking as well. Feels like we’ve something up our sleeve. Petty was a loss but I think Fritsch will counteract that. If we have Fritsch, Melksham and Petracca forward, along with JVR and a couple of smalls with Smith as sub I think we’re good to go

    Even with Midfield combo's, rotations, etc. Grundy back in, Joel Smith back line then pushed forward when Pig comes on as the sub.

    Carlton pretty much reviled all to us and everybody else Sat night it meant the world to them to win.

    September is another season.

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    • Like 1
      On 14/08/2023 at 23:54, Gillies said:

    We are all assuming a win if trac or Salem kicks it.

    mo one knows. 40sec to go with a centre bounce with Carlton midfield , who know what happens next. Perhaps a draw even?

    trac or salems kicks didn’t cost us. Our poor footy at times did.

    considering how talented our midfield is, we really do get smacked in clearances sometimes. Perhaps we are slightly over rated based off 2021 

    Carlton midfielders, across the game, were fed by and roved well to big Max. Reading the 'tap' is an art and Carlton - like other teams this year - picked the eyes of Max's dominant ruck work more times than our midfield brigade. It helped enormously across the game, getting in many first breaks to increase scoring opportunities for them. We have seen this before and there has to be a solution.

    When Grundy rucks, he taps it to his feet, almost; creating increased congestion and so frequently, results in another, immediate ball up until one team gets the break.

    Possibly, the only solution is to tap the pill into a larger radius from the tap point with varied but intended midfield runners to firstly screen (not block) opponents for others to snatch the ball for a clearance; or, employing better indicators to where the ball will be tapped outside the centre circle - and rehearsed at training. These were the left-hand, right-hand taps that Crackers used to great effect with his 'roving' division, making him one of our most effective tap ruckmen in past times. (OK, so he wasn't too flash in other areas of a ruckman's game), but he could put a tap down the throat or in the pathway of pre-determined, 'secret' scouts in his presence. 

     

     

     

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    • Like 1
      On 15/08/2023 at 03:19, mauriesy said:

    It must be MFCSS that says we were "totally outplayed" when we lose by 4 points.

    I don't think anyone is suggesting we were totally outplayed in 120 minutes on Saturday night. Goodwin himself says that there are lots of "moments" in games, win enough of those and ultimately you win the game. First 5 minutes of last quarter on Saturday night was one of those moments. As was letting Josh Kelly run from the mark to kick the winner in Alice Springs. Gee, wouldn't we love to have those 8 points now?

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    •  
      On 15/08/2023 at 03:28, Roost it far said:

    Salem and ANB kick theirs and Petracca’s goes 6 inches further and we win by 2 1/2 goals. 

    But they didnt.

    The whole notion of running down your opponent....is that you do actually do so. We didn't...not by the scoreboard.  Nearly...but nearly might as well be a mile.

    There's 3 ifs in there alone... chuck in any number of maybes.....   but if you do so for one then why not the other.  If we're to play sliding doors scenarios. 

    It would be wiser would it not to get out in front of these "needed"  kicks and be the hunted not the hunter.

    If...but a small word....is actually a huge void.

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    • Like 1
      On 15/08/2023 at 03:57, beelzebub said:

    But they didnt.

    The whole notion of running down your opponent....is that you do actually do so. We didn't...not by the scoreboard.  Nearly...but nearly might as well be a mile.

    There's 3 ifs in there alone... chuck in any number of maybes.....   but if you do so for one then why not the other.  If we're to play sliding doors scenarios. 

    It would be wiser would it not to get out in front of these "needed"  kicks and be the hunted not the hunter.

    If...but a small word....is actually a huge void.

    My point is the margin and result was very nearly ours. We played great finals football and can hold our heads high. This loss may well be our seasons defining moment. Who knows how it spurs the players. I know that if I stood there after the siren I’d of been filthy with that result. It would galvanise me and I can bet my last dollar one M. Gawn and 22 others feel exactly the same way. Can’t wait for finals, reckon we’re in this upto our eyeballs

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    • Like 1

      On 14/08/2023 at 06:43, Fromgotowoewodin said:

    It is a pretty vaguely defined sub-clause 18.5.2(a):

    IMG_2163.thumb.jpeg.0ec7dfbc1dd0c6c4271b85d90a730e15.jpeg

    Last week Lever got done for blocking when Eddie Ford tried to jump over him in what I would define as 18.5.2(e), but then this week Tom De Konig discovered that jumping on Gawn from behind while not touching the ball is a valid way to stop Gawn from taking a mark (did it at least twice from memory).

    What is or isn’t a block depends mostly on 1) the vibe, and 2) what side of the bed the umpire got up that morning.

    There are NO rules in Australian rules football. As soon as that rule is appreciated then you can enjoy the game. 

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    • Like 1
      On 15/08/2023 at 04:15, Bring-Back-Powell said:

    Who thinks Carlton are a genuine premiership contender?

    Not just an honourable semi final contender but a team that go all the way.

    I do. There's a bit of MFC 2021 about them.  It's going to be very hard for them from 5th though if we can win one ofthe remaining two games.

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    • Like 1
      On 15/08/2023 at 04:15, Bring-Back-Powell said:

    Who thinks Carlton are a genuine premiership contender?

    Not just an honourable semi final contender but a team that go all the way.

    They are absolutely a contender, as the Sportsbet odds show, now into $6. However, if they win the last two, as expected, they will have won 13 in a row to salute on 30 September. And at least one interstate final in there. And if they happen to snare 4th, watch out.

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      On 15/08/2023 at 04:24, old55 said:

    I do. There's a bit of MFC 2021 about them.  It's going to be very hard for them from 5th though if we can win one ofthe remaining two games.

    MFC 2018, the bust will come and we will delight in it

    Edited by Roost it far

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    • Like 7

      On 15/08/2023 at 04:15, Bring-Back-Powell said:

    Who thinks Carlton are a genuine premiership contender?

    Not just an honourable semi final contender but a team that go all the way.

    They’re 100% a contender and clearly have the best form and profile right now 

    What’s more is they’re playing a game style that will stand up to the pressure of finals football

    On that basis, they’re every chance to give the “can’t win it from outside the four” theory a real shake, particularly given the evenness of the comp this year 

    But a month is a long time in football, and without finishing top four they’re every chance to play an interstate semi or prelim final, which will be tough for any side overcome

    Long story short - if they manage to win the flag from here, it would be one of the most impressive Premiership runs in history

    But we could just as well be sitting here in a month watching them flame out after an admittedly very impressive few months 

    Time will tell

     

    Edited by demoncat

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    • Like 5
      On 15/08/2023 at 04:24, old55 said:

    I do. There's a bit of MFC 2021 about them.  It's going to be very hard for them from 5th though if we can win one ofthe remaining two games.

    Their pressure was immense on sat night but I don’t think they can sustain it. 

  • Quote
      On 15/08/2023 at 04:15, Bring-Back-Powell said:

    Who thinks Carlton are a genuine premiership contender?

    Not just an honourable semi final contender but a team that go all the way.

    This is august

    Playing in September is another step up.

    They're good...   and weve seen how good..but those legs tired too early.

    There's a wall waiting for them...a bit too high this year.

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      On 15/08/2023 at 04:46, BDA said:

    Their pressure was immense on sat night but I don’t think they can sustain it. 

    If there's a premiership at stake for them, maybe that will give them enough motivation to sustain their pressure for another 6 games.  In fact they could get away with losing one of their last 2 games so they don't even have to be up for 14 straight games.

    Hope I'm wrong of course but that was the hardest and most impressive team we've played against this year. 

    Edited by Bring-Back-Powell

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    • Like 1
      On 15/08/2023 at 03:26, Roost it far said:

    I’m of that thinking as well. Feels like we’ve something up our sleeve. Petty was a loss but I think Fritsch will counteract that. If we have Fritsch, Melksham and Petracca forward, along with JVR and a couple of smalls with Smith as sub I think we’re good to go

    Conceptually I love the idea of not showing your hand. I'm just not sure what it may look like in practice...

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      On 15/08/2023 at 04:42, demoncat said:

    They’re 100% a contender and clearly have the best form and profile right now 

    What’s more is they’re playing a game style that will stand up to the pressure of finals football

    On that basis, they’re every chance to give the “can’t win it from outside the four” theory a real shake, particularly given the evenness of the comp this year 

    But a month is a long time in football, and without finishing top four they’re every chance to play an interstate semi or prelim final, which will be tough for any side overcome

    Long story short - if they manage to win the flag from here, it would be one of the most impressive Premiership runs in history

    But we could just as well be sitting here in a month watching them flame out after an admittedly very impressive few months 

    Time will tell

    Agree with all of the above.

    If they don't finish top 4 history is against them, but as you say they have the game.

    As do we. The same one in fact

    Contest, intense pressure, forward half football has been the template for winning the flag ever since Hardwick's tiger's won the flag in 2017.

    And one of the truisms of all sport, also holds true in footy - defence wins Grand Finals.

    And the dees and the blues have the best defensive systems by some margin

    The game on Saturday night showed how close and how well matched we are. The Blues were brilliant, and deserved the win. 

    But we had the better of the second half and looked fitter and stronger at the end. We were denied the four points by an officiating error, but even leaving that aside the game could have gone either way. 

    As Luke Ball said, the best game of the season - two top teams going head to head and being separated by under a goal. 

    It is only logical that anyone that rates the blues as a good chance of winning the flag rate also rate us a good chance of doing so.

    In fact if someone thinks the blues are a good chance of winning the flag, the logical extension is we have a greater chance of doing so.

    Yes they won that game, but I think we are the better team. But that is by the by - the fact remains, in all likelihood, we will have a double chance and they will not. So therefore we have a better chance of winning the flag.

     

    Edited by binman

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    • Like 5
      On 15/08/2023 at 05:13, binman said:

    Agree with all of the above.

    If they don't finish top 4 history is against them, but as you say they have the game.

    As do we. The same one in fact

    Contest, intense pressure, forward half football has been the template for winning the flag ever since Hardwick's tiger's won the flag in 2017.

    And one of the truisms of all sport, also holds true in footy - defence wins Grand Finals.

    And the dees and the blues have the best defensive systems by some margin

    The game on Saturday night showed how close and how well matched we are. The Blues were brilliant, and deserved the win. 

    But we had the better of the second half and looked fitter and stronger at the end. We were denied the four points by an officiating error, but even leaving that aside the game could have gone either way. 

    As Luke Ball said, the best game of the season - two top teams going head to head and being separated by under a goal. 

    It is only logical that anyone that rates the blues as a good chance of winning the flag rate also rate us a good chance of doing so.

    In fact if someone thinks the blues are a good chance of winning the flag, the logical extension is we have a greater chance of doing so.

    Yes they won that game, but I think we are the better team. But that is by the by - the fact remains, in all likelihood, we will have a double chance and they will not. So therefore we have a better chance of winning the flag.

     

    Very logical post. But your second last sentence I am not so sure about.

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      On 15/08/2023 at 05:26, bobby1554 said:

    Very logical post. But your second last sentence I am not so sure about.

    You think there is a greater likelihood the blues will have a double chance than us?

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      On 15/08/2023 at 03:54, bobby1554 said:

    I don't think anyone is suggesting we were totally outplayed in 120 minutes on Saturday night.

    Quite a few people here did.

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      On 15/08/2023 at 05:34, binman said:

    You think there is a greater likelihood the blues will have a double chance than us?

    I am very concerned about Sundays game. I think Hawthorn will be tough to beat. Would I say it is likely, no. But very possible.

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