On 14/08/2023 at 07:54, Fromgotowoewodin said:

Free kicks in a ruck contest: 

The full laws of the game can be found here: https://www.afl.com.au/about-afl/laws-of-the-game

Ignore all the 2017 videos, 2023 rules are at the first link. For some reason despite changing the rules every week they don’t want to update the example vids from 6 years ago.

This rule surprises me.

I thought it was compulsory for ruckman to push, bump, block and grab each other, especially at boundary throw-ins!

I can understand that Marchbank and the Blues were just so desperate to get a win at all costs.

Conning the umpires in this instance is a bit like going up for an appeal, when you reckon it wasn’t really out, but you go up anyway to see what the ump thinks.

Worked out for Carlton this time. Made me think what Dee players might have done in the same position. Marchbank might have been injured for this one (odds on at least) so might have missed the example set by Koz:

 

  On 14/08/2023 at 10:25, KLV said:

They’ve been like for ever. The most arrogant, insufferable supporters in the afl 

As we (Melbourne supporters) walked out up the aisle in the Mcc after the siren went, we were forced to run the gamut of navy blue scarves being waved in our faces. There were some supporters really getting ready to rip their scarves away from them so I wasn't surprised after about 5 security guards raced past me to get to a fracas (well it was the mcc and melbourne mcc members dont participate in such vulgarities)😉

Just employed Collingwood supporters.

  On 14/08/2023 at 06:12, kev martin said:

I don't know the rules well. It seems a really arbitrary rule. It is incongruent to the sheparding rule of being able to effect the player within 5 meters of the ball. Although players are constantly "picked", away from the ball and before the ball is in play.

"Under the Laws of Australian Football, a player can shepherd an opposition player when the ball is within five metres, with the exception of contests where players contest the ball in the air, i.e. marking contests and ruck contests, or when the ball is not in play. Players cannot shepherd in marking and ruck contests."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shepherding_(Australian_rules_football)

"inconsistently applied, and free kicks are paid only against blatant shepherds by a player whose eyes are not on the ball."

https://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/7152925#google_vignette

I've seen them train to get between their own player and opponent, in order to give protection.

There seems a fine line of holding your space and taking the others space. 

Thanks Kev but I consistently see one of our players being held off the ball and an opposition layer moves in to mark.

It looks so preconceived with no intention of marking. Surely that is a free kick.

Umpires make bad calls both ways. And we didn't lose the game because of the umpires.

We lost because we weren't up to it. Even with a handful of Carlton's best 10 players unavailable. 

I don't remember anyone saying we were lucky to get the rub of the green against Richmond which arguably gave us a hit of momentum which we took advantage of. 

Can't have it both ways. We lost because we and choose when we want to play our best footy too often. 

Carlton were cleaner and applied more pressure for longer than us.

That was the game.

Complaining about the umpires is a massive lol.

I could count 80 examples of players fumbling, missing handballs, missing kicks, making bad decisions, ball watching.

We did that more than them. And they won because of it.

@binman and @Binmans PA (lol) 

Thoughts on the games against Hawthorn and Sydney? Still confident we'll win both?

@Binmans PA, love that you'll every excuse in the book to defend a loss! Not just that we were outplayed? Plain and simple? Structure! haha. 

Carlton were missing about 5 top choice players and their midfield embarrassed us at times.

  On 14/08/2023 at 18:39, JimmyGadson said:

Carlton were cleaner and applied more pressure for longer than us.

That was the game.

Complaining about the umpires is a massive lol.

Just these two points...  please understand they are mutually EXCLUSIVE. 

Totally agree with first point. They were...absolutely.   The game was really won in the first 5 mins of the last qtr. ( as things turned out )

However...there is no escaping the reality and plausibility that despite that ( the above ) the umpiring over all was pox...and specifically the adjudication applied to Tracs goal was appalling; and that IT specifically decided the game.

It's not terribly often in games that despite an overall judgement that there were umpiring stuffups that anyone will seriously point to one particular event. That's not the situation regarding this game.

If ever a game was decided by how a spinning coin fell..this is a serious contender...and mores the point ( npi ) it should never have been uponthe coin's fall.

It WAS a goal.

And that deserves MASSIVELY  lambasting. 

 

  On 14/08/2023 at 15:21, JimmyGadson said:

Umpires make bad calls both ways. And we didn't lose the game because of the umpires.

We lost because we weren't up to it. Even with a handful of Carlton's best 10 players unavailable. 

I don't remember anyone saying we were lucky to get the rub of the green against Richmond which arguably gave us a hit of momentum which we took advantage of. 

Can't have it both ways. We lost because we and choose when we want to play our best footy too often. 

When a team has a good win but has a few players out, doesn't guarantee they can play any better than those that replaced them.

  On 14/08/2023 at 18:39, JimmyGadson said:

 

@Binmans PA, love that you'll every excuse in the book to defend a loss! Not just that we were outplayed? Plain and simple? Structure! haha. 

 

Sorry Jimmy - how can you say we were outplayed when the result was so close.  If Tracc's kick was declared a goal I suppose you wouldn't have said we outplayed Carlton.  They outplayed us for some of the match, we outplayed them for another part of the match.    Let's see a glimpse of positivity.

I wonder if Goodwin had his time again he’d of started Gawn, Petracca, Oliver and Viney in the middle for the first 10 of the last quarter?

  On 14/08/2023 at 23:31, Roost it far said:

I wonder if Goodwin had his time again he’d of started Gawn, Petracca, Oliver and Viney in the middle for the first 10 of the last quarter?

Ridiculous that he didn't..

Not saying because mr hindsight suggests..but more that he himself knew we had our work cut out and needed to getva crack on in the 4th.. He basically said as much at 3/4 time....  and then.. 

Many observed the Blues fade towards the end of the 3rd... you'd have to think they're not going to dip in any fountain of youth at the break !!  They were more than probably going to tire as the game ebbed on.

Capt Obvious would suggest all hands to the wheel until they did...tire. 

For reasons known only to Simon he charted another course . I dont blame him for those 10 mins...but i question the wisdom.

Learnings...hmmmm ...   do we ??

  On 14/08/2023 at 23:45, beelzebub said:

Ridiculous that he didn't..

Not saying because mr hindsight suggests..but more that he himself knew we had our work cut out and needed to getva crack on in the 4th.. He basically said as much at 3/4 time....  and then.. 

Many observed the Blues fade towards the end of the 3rd... you'd have to think they're not going to dip in any fountain of youth at the break !!  They were more than probably going to tire as the game ebbed on.

Capt Obvious would suggest all hands to the wheel until they did...tire. 

For reasons known only to Simon he charted another course . I dont blame him for those 10 mins...but i question the wisdom.

Learnings...hmmmm ...   do we ??

Also in hindsight we did come pretty hard at them in the second half of the quarter and really should have won when Salem stormed into a sitter. 

We are all assuming a win if trac or Salem kicks it.

mo one knows. 40sec to go with a centre bounce with Carlton midfield , who know what happens next. Perhaps a draw even?

trac or salems kicks didn’t cost us. Our poor footy at times did.

considering how talented our midfield is, we really do get smacked in clearances sometimes. Perhaps we are slightly over rated based off 2021 

Steven May was on SEN this morning and was asked about Caleb Marchbank's 'Fingertips of God'. He said he couldn't tell from where he was but he said that Marchbank immediately looked towards the goal umpire and signalled touched and when it is instinctive like that it usually means the player got a touch to it. He sounded OK with the call but just disappointed not to get the 4 points.

  On 14/08/2023 at 23:58, No. 31 said:

Steven May was on SEN this morning and was asked about Caleb Marchbank's 'Fingertips of God'. He said he couldn't tell from where he was but he said that Marchbank immediately looked towards the goal umpire and signalled touched and when it is instinctive like that it usually means the player got a touch to it. He sounded OK with the call but just disappointed not to get the 4 points.

That’s because he knows nothing will change the result and his focus is now Hawthorn. 

  On 14/08/2023 at 18:39, JimmyGadson said:

Carlton were cleaner and applied more pressure for longer than us.

That was the game.

Complaining about the umpires is a massive lol.

I could count 80 examples of players fumbling, missing handballs, missing kicks, making bad decisions, ball watching.

We did that more than them. And they won because of it.

@binman and @Binmans PA (lol) 

Thoughts on the games against Hawthorn and Sydney? Still confident we'll win both?

@Binmans PA, love that you'll every excuse in the book to defend a loss! Not just that we were outplayed? Plain and simple? Structure! haha. 

Carlton were missing about 5 top choice players and their midfield embarrassed us at times.

It doesn't matter whether they were playing or not if the rules prevent them from getting to the ball it is irrelevant.

Also i believe in horses for courses rather than 5 top players..

  On 14/08/2023 at 12:45, Sir Why You Little said:

The Carlton fingertip is nowhere near the ball

We got stitched up so badly by a shoddy AFL System 

just imagine this rubbish in September….

He has very long fingertips.

Ok I have a twisted mind. Be great is we could thump the Hawks on Sunday and both Port and Brisbane lose putting us back in second.  Carlton to lose to the Suns. Following week both Lions an Port lose again meaning we finish 2nd. But wait, in the Swans game we are 4 points in front, Swans kick for goal after the siren and Max just touches the ball though the sticks, Max turns to the ump and say gee I just missed that and a goal is paid. The blues then lose their last game and finish 9th. Ok silly but I love karma. 

No one will remember this game in 6 weeks time

bring on the real stuff

  On 14/08/2023 at 23:31, Roost it far said:

I wonder if Goodwin had his time again he’d of started Gawn, Petracca, Oliver and Viney in the middle for the first 10 of the last quarter?

Or even Kosi if Clarry was running on fumes at that stage.

A bizarre decision not to go hard to start the last quarter, and an even worse one to put Trac on Cripps. Needed to put a defensive mid on him, like Gus or Viney.

If the FD had their time again I also don't think they play Grundy, but we had to find out one way or another.

  On 14/08/2023 at 23:48, Roost it far said:

Also in hindsight we did come pretty hard at them in the second half of the quarter and really should have won when Salem stormed into a sitter. 

Our 4th qtr second half....should have been the 1st half ( if that makes sense ) 

We just get caught napping time and time again...and that game's result is why you can't....  it just won't always go your way if you leave it too late.

If we had amped up in the first 5-10  mins of the 4th.....we would have run them ragged.  Yes...we'd both be stuffed in the bottom half...but in all likelihood would have prevailed.

Should have started the 4th as though we were srarting the game again.  Ignore the previous 3 qtrs... ( other than.."learnings" ) ..treat it as a 30 min mini match..  

We had the legs to come home and run it out...they didn't.   Did we approach it this way ??   I don't  think so. Pretty dumb really...imho

 

  On 14/08/2023 at 23:58, No. 31 said:

Steven May was on SEN this morning and was asked about Caleb Marchbank's 'Fingertips of God'. He said he couldn't tell from where he was but he said that Marchbank immediately looked towards the goal umpire and signalled touched and when it is instinctive like that it usually means the player got a touch to it. He sounded OK with the call but just disappointed not to get the 4 points.

Maysie played a straight bat as he was instructed to do. As quoted by Gus at his presser as a club direction. So straight bat also by him but he summarised saying  "...everyone thought it was a goal..."

  On 15/08/2023 at 01:41, YearOfTheDees said:

Ok I have a twisted mind. Be great is we could thump the Hawks on Sunday and both Port and Brisbane lose putting us back in second.  Carlton to lose to the Suns. Following week both Lions an Port lose again meaning we finish 2nd. But wait, in the Swans game we are 4 points in front, Swans kick for goal after the siren and Max just touches the ball though the sticks, Max turns to the ump and say gee I just missed that and a goal is paid. The blues then lose their last game and finish 9th. Ok silly but I love karma. 

Brilliant.  Most of your post will come true imo

  On 15/08/2023 at 02:50, beelzebub said:

Our 4th qtr second half....should have been the 1st half ( if that makes sense ) 

We just get caught napping time and time again...and that game's result is why you can't....  it just won't always go your way if you leave it too late.

If we had amped up in the first 5-10  mins of the 4th.....we would have run them ragged.  Yes...we'd both be stuffed in the bottom half...but in all likelihood would have prevailed.

Should have started the 4th as though we were srarting the game again.  Ignore the previous 3 qtrs... ( other than.."learnings" ) ..treat it as a 30 min mini match..  

We had the legs to come home and run it out...they didn't.   Did we approach it this way ??   I don't  think so. Pretty dumb really...imho

 

No team wins every clearance, we lost a couple out the front at the wrong time. Now we make sure we don’t do it again when it really matters

  On 15/08/2023 at 03:00, Roost it far said:

No team wins every clearance, we lost a couple out the front at the wrong time. Now we make sure we don’t do it again when it really matters

No..fair enough... but they came out with a seemingly different mindset..  We looked like we were looking to win the qtr...win the match.  They threw EVERYTHING and the kitchen sink at that first 10 mins.  I suspect Voss was planning on getting a break on us...forcing us to play catch up footy...which gets harder and  harder as those legs get heavier and heavier.

Looks like 2 coaches...2 different ideas to those 30 mins.

Strangely both weren't wrong...but one more right than the other..

The old adage,  never give a sucker an even break...comes to mind.  We did...

Edited August 15, 20231 yr by beelzebub