POSTGAME: Rd 12 vs Carlton

[DeeSpencer 25,708]

19 minutes ago, A F said:

Tomlinson was always undersized in that contest. I thought he did reasonably well.

And sure enough, Lever started to look good again.

The issue is what do we do when we don’t come up against a side with Silvagni, bog ordinary smalls or Lewis Young as the perfect 3rd tall for Lever to zone off.

If Lever has to play on a dangerous opponent no matter what size then it’s hard to say we need a 3rd tall.

We also looked much better without Gus playing loose down back too. Salo, Riv, Bowey played great 2 way flanker footy. Next week we probably need Gus and he only knows how to be an interceptor down back. If Lever and Gus both naturally zone off smart teams will find match ups to abuse that.

There’s no doubt in Lever’s best role but I’m hardly convinced we always have to right talent alongside him to allow him to play it week in week out.

 

Edited June 2, 2023 by DeeSpencer

[Dr. Gonzo 24,216]

1 hour ago, dee-tox said:

Not huge amount to like. But the performance of the kids McVee, Sparrow, Bowey, JvR and to an extent Rivers was pleasing.

I am worried about Kozzie though. One highlight goal and not much else.

Was he playing a defensive role on Saad? Because Saad had minimal influence off half back.

Edited June 2, 2023 by Dr. Gonzo

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

11 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Tonight proved that our backline is designed to have 3 talls. I hope Tomlinson stays in

We were also very good when it hit the deck too. Clearly they are fixining one thing at a time.

[Jjrogan 1,420]

1 hour ago, BW511 said:

Take the win, onto next week.

I hope for all our sake that we can find an extra 5-10% in our skills

McVee is the find of the year, he’s a smooth mover, doesn’t ever seem panicked and lands in the right spot all the 

Ill repeat my call that he deserves midfield minutes.  His spacial awareness and execution is excellent within a 30 metre arc. Give him a run through the middle and lets see how he approaches 30 to 45 metre  I50 kicks.   We've got enough braun in there, we need some brain. 

[Jaded No More 68,915]

Just now, DeeSpencer said:

The issue is what do we do when we don’t come up against a side with Silvagni, bog ordinary smalls or Lewis Young as the perfect 3rd tall for Lever to zone off.

If Lever has to play on a dangerous opponent no matter what size then it’s hard to say we need a 3rd tall.

We also looked much better without Gus playing loose down back too. Salo, Riv, Bowey played great 2 way flanker footy. Next week we probably need Gus and he only knows how to be an interceptor down back. 

There’s no doubt in Lever’s best role but I’m hardly convinced we always have to right talent alongside him to allow him to play it week in week out.

 

Very few teams have 3 genuinely good talls. In fact I can’t name one. 

[deegirl 1,578]

Just here to fess up, I was convinced Carlton were going to win, but I am a long term MFCSS sufferer. 
 

There were some really good patches and some horrible ones, our disposal was nasty  

Tomlinson was solid, and as has been mentioned his inclusion allows Lever to play the intercept role & that’s vital to our game. 
 

The smith experiment wasn’t the disaster I was expecting and whatever his shortcomings you have to credit him for having a great attack on the footy. 
 

Nice to see Salo getting back to his best. And thought Bowey & McVee were very good. 
 

Im the first one to criticise Fritsch but was happy to see him be a strong contributor

[Big Col 1,347]

1 hour ago, FarNorthernD said:

Before everyone goes Tomlinson there is nothing he can do when the ball comes in lace out. I thought he was ok ish

Lever was back to intercepting form, and, as many have been saying on DL for ages, because he was not trying to be a lock-down defender. 

[Tarax Club 3,910]

15 minutes ago, A F said:

Tomlinson was always undersized in that contest. I thought he did reasonably well.

And sure enough, Lever started to look good again.

Smart coaching Curnow had no real influence and was well blanketed by May. McKay is no match winner on that performance. Jake Lever got some of his mojo back.

[Adam The God 30,259]

Oh btw. McVee looked better tonight, but how bloody good is Salem? I don't care what the DE stat was saying at quarter time, he was so clean, calm and effective.

We've missed his assuredness back there, and I think it makes Bowey and McVee better, freeing them up mentally and literally to join in on slingshot offence. We look so much better when we've got the three talls and the beautifully clean Christian Salem.

In fact, shout out to our entire defence tonight. Thought they were really solid and generated great run off half back. Certainly helped by Carlton's poor forward pressure though.

[layzie 33,803]

1 hour ago, FarNorthernD said:

Before everyone goes Tomlinson there is nothing he can do when the ball comes in lace out. I thought he was ok ish

Glad we're on the same page 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,216]

It was a dour struggle which at no point we looked like losing.

We got our defensive structures right again with Tomlinson in to free up Lever.

We got our forward half intercept game working again and dominated inside 50s and time in forward half.

Just have to clean up that ball use inside 50 and try and switch the play to open up the forward line instead of going down the line to the contest again and again.

Salem and Sparrow were very good, Max started clunking some marks and JVR had another good game.

Plus Clarry's back next week!

All in all I was pretty pleased with the game but maybe that's because I was revelling in schadenfreude at Carlton's misery as much as joy for a Melbourne win.

[DeeSpencer 25,708]

1 minute ago, Jaded No More said:

Very few teams have 3 genuinely good talls. In fact I can’t name one. 

Collingwood - Johnson, Mihocek, Cox. 

None are great but we might be better off putting Hibberd (if healthy) on Johnson and Lever on Cox rather than going too tall and getting burnt be their speed and pressure.

Brisbane - Daniher, Hipwood, Gunston are all dangerous. Lever has generally taken Hipwood

Geelong - Hawkins, Cameron, Henry/Rohan. Usually the Cats play a small through Lever and attempt to get him turned around by Miers/Stengle at ground level.

[layzie 33,803]

1 hour ago, Bang Bang Bang said:

I’m sure the mood in this thread will soon resemble a funeral but I’m personally happy enough to win ugly.
Tomlinson was ordinary to poor tonight but Lever looked as good as he has in a long time. I’d keep Tommo in until Petty is good to go after the bye. 

We’ve survived the no-Oliver apocalypse and we just need to beat Collingwood to pump some adrenaline back in our season. Tough ask, but stranger things have happened. 

I wanted an ugly win more than a beautiful football win 

[Adam The God 30,259]

8 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

The issue is what do we do when we don’t come up against a side with Silvagni, bog ordinary smalls or Lewis Young as the perfect 3rd tall for Lever to zone off.

If Lever has to play on a dangerous opponent no matter what size then it’s hard to say we need a 3rd tall.

We also looked much better without Gus playing loose down back too. Salo, Riv, Bowey played great 2 way flanker footy. Next week we probably need Gus and he only knows how to be an interceptor down back. If Lever and Gus both naturally zone off smart teams will find match ups to abuse that.

There’s no doubt in Lever’s best role but I’m hardly convinced we always have to right talent alongside him to allow him to play it week in week out.

 

I agree to an extent. The dilemma will come as early as next week. We'll want to play three talls again, with Hibbo replacing Bowser, but I'm not convinced there's a good match up for Tomlinson, who remains undersized for a second key back. Maybe it's not a huge issue against Collingwood. 

Gus is a butcher in the midfield IMO and gets lost in transition, but he's so much smarter playing behind the ball. That's really his position. I felt Gus was much better when Bowser went off, because we shifted him behind the ball. He did a couple of really calm and clever things after that.

[Fork 'em 6,983]

 I'll tell ya 1 thing.
The big Roo has got it goin' on.
Kid has the strut.
I like it alot.
 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Fork 'em

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

1 minute ago, layzie said:

Glad we're on the same page 

If we persist with Petty up forward. You have to go May, Tommo , Lever. Lever looks so much more dangerous as the 3rd tall.
 

Also Kozzy needs a kick up the backside. He is incredibly out of form and has very little impact on the game for such a good player. Had a weird matchup today and couldn’t really out manoeuvre his oversized opponent. 

[DeeSpencer 25,708]

4 minutes ago, A F said:

Oh btw. McVee looked better tonight, but how bloody good is Salem? I don't care what the DE stat was saying at quarter time, he was so clean, calm and effective.

We've missed his assuredness back there, and I think it makes Bowey and McVee better, freeing them up mentally and literally to join in on slingshot offence. We look so much better when we've got the three talls and the beautifully clean Christian Salem.

In fact, shout out to our entire defence tonight. Thought they were really solid and generated great run off half back. Certainly helped by Carlton's poor forward pressure though.

Carlton’s pressure was very solid early but we stuck to attacking guns and switched it more tonight than in the last month. Even some corridor kick ins!

What I also loved is the backline mostly came forward and defended far higher and grew in confidence. Far less sitting back. 

Then Carlton got stuck in the turnover cycle, butchering it more and more so less and less unable to pressure. 

[Jaded No More 68,915]

4 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Collingwood - Johnson, Mihocek, Cox. 

None are great but we might be better off putting Hibberd (if healthy) on Johnson and Lever on Cox rather than going too tall and getting burnt be their speed and pressure.

Brisbane - Daniher, Hipwood, Gunston are all dangerous. Lever has generally taken Hipwood

Geelong - Hawkins, Cameron, Henry/Rohan. Usually the Cats play a small through Lever and attempt to get him turned around by Miers/Stengle at ground level.

Cox is the only genuine tall in that list. Miochek and Johnson are 192-193cm. 
Gunston likewise. 

Also Rohan lol. I said genuinely good! 

 

It’s like saying we play 3 talls and including Fritta in that. A genuine tall these days is 198cm plus. 
McKay is a genuine tall. Daniher. Cameron. Hawkins. These are the type of guys Lever should not play on as it robs us of his intercept game. He can totally play on Gunston and impact the contest. 

Edited June 2, 2023 by Jaded No More

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

Controversial opinion, but I think it was our best performance over the past month. Our contested game was strong, our clearance game was excellent, numbers around the contest was up, our defence looked very organised and we only gave up 6 goals. Carlton are lucky McKay actually kicked straight early or they would have been in real trouble.

Yes, our set shot kicking was awful and some of our inside 50 kicks were misguided and rushed, but if we get that many inside 50s next week with the same level of effort across the ground (contest, clearance, defence) then I think we’ll beat the Pies. 

[layzie 33,803]

1 hour ago, Red But Mostly Blue said:

I’ll start with the 4 points. Great. 

But was that the worst game that has ever been played??

We need to do something pretty drastic very quickly. Very worried for next week.

How far are we from 2021??

We got plenty to work on no doubt but I was happy with the way we went about this game intensity and pressure wise.

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 3,293]

1 hour ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Deep down we all know it too.

i recall one kick into the corridor. Just one kick! And what happened? Mark, goal.

40 forward half turnovers for 1.4 is unacceptable We should have had 10-15 scoring shots alone.

And set shots kicking! Wtf has happened here. 

10-12 other teams would have beaten the Blues by 10 goals tonight. 

Harmes likely gone by MRO and I think Viney gets rubbed out too. 

 

Harmes maybe, if you are taking the Viney dangerous tackle, no way! Threw him on his back and it was no worse than Cerra’s. But knowing the MRO, will probably be cited

[DeeSpencer 25,708]

1 minute ago, A F said:

I agree to an extent. The dilemma will come as early as next week. We'll want to play three talls again, with Hibbo replacing Bowser, but I'm not convinced there's a good match up for Tomlinson, who remains undersized for a second key back. Maybe it's not a huge issue against Collingwood. 

Gus is a butcher in the midfield IMO and gets lost in transition, but he's so much smarter playing behind the ball. That's really his position. I felt Gus was much better when Bowser went off, because we shifted him behind the ball. He did a couple of really calm and clever things after that.

Gus is better behind the ball but he plays half back as an intercepting tall not as an aggressive two way flanker.

It’s the combination of him and Lever in the same role that I don’t like.

Some of Gus’ best footy of his career was when Lever was out last year. When they both played together it’s fantastic against bad sides but gets silly against dangerous teams.

Of course if we do get to full health with mids and flankers we can consider Gus to a wing where he gets the benefit of playing as a spare back and a mid at the same time.

[layzie 33,803]

2 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Cox is the only genuine tall in that list. Miochek and Johnson are 192-193cm. 
Gunston likewise. 

Also Rohan lol. I said genuinely good! 
 

Not related but Cox gets a lot of credit for being a big American and having his parents come over every time there's a special occasion.

[mauriesy 7,296]

4 minutes ago, Gawndy the Great said:

Also Kozzy needs a kick up the backside. He is incredibly out of form and has very little impact on the game for such a good player. Had a weird matchup today and couldn’t really out manoeuvre his oversized opponent. 

One day, in an alternate reality universe, Kozzie will get a free for a head-high tackle.

[Adam The God 30,259]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Carlton’s pressure was very solid early but we stuck to attacking guns and switched it more tonight than in the last month. Even some corridor kick ins!

What I also loved is the backline mostly came forward and defended far higher and grew in confidence. Far less sitting back. 

Then Carlton got stuck in the turnover cycle, butchering it more and more so less and less unable to pressure. 

Yep, good calls. And I thought our half forwards brought the heat tonight, which meant there was a fair bit of inferred pressure that led to turnovers.

What was really interesting is that last week we managed one score from a forward half turnover (Gus' miss). This week to three quarter time we had generated a season-high 32 forward half intercepts, but scored an equal season-low of 10 points from this source (as per the AFL ap).

We need to tidy this up (particularly against Collingwood), but as Goody said in his presser, it was a pretty dominant display from us this week.

Edited June 2, 2023 by A F