Let's try and pin point the actual issue.

[Redleg 38,636]

57 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Nibbler was good.  

That is the most inaccurate post I have ever read on DL.

Probably a dozen clangers.

Turned it over continually.

 

 

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,024]

Teams are falling over themselves this year, I still believe we can go deep into September but the coaches need to acknowledge they’ve got it wrong. Quick ball movement to an open fwd line is critical. When Petty returns he must go back into defence. Defence is still so important and what made us great. Fritsch is too agile for bigger defenders and will out mark smaller ones but we don’t play to his advantage. Kosi is a massive asset but again, how do we use him. Now Salem is back surely we can use a Bowey up fwd. We don’t need to change everything, just tweak a few things. 
 

Lever May Hibberd

Salem Petty Rivers

Langdon Oliver Hunter

Bowey JVR Melksham / Smith

Chander Fritsch Kosi

Gawn Petracca Viney

 

Grundy Sparrow Brayshaw Spargo 

All being available i’d run with this, time to mix things up. Quick ball movement, less predictable, turnovers will occur but our defence can and will cope. I don’t want to die wondering….

[dazzledavey36 49,834]

4 minutes ago, Pulp Fritschon said:

Love this thread - DD starts off by stating they didn’t watch the game today and then goes on to write a thesis on what is not working. I love Demonland. 

This thread isn't about today's game bro.

Clearly don't have set of eyes on you.

This is more of a summary of information built off the back of last years form, coaching concerns, forward set up the losses we've had this year and how we're losing them and also a few others.

[dazzledavey36 49,834]

6 minutes ago, Redleg said:

That is the most inaccurate post I have ever read on DL.

Probably a dozen clangers.

Turned it over continually.

 

 

DS has a history of seeing the game in a completely different set of lense to everyone else.

Majority of the comments in the post game thread supports your argument about ANB's performance today.

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,166]

What happened to the corridor footy we saw pre season?? We rarely switch play, and barely even look to see if it's on.

The only thing we have changed about our F50 entries is it is not deep pocket every time. We still bomb it and teams run it out with ease and very little pressure. 

We are stale and have not fired a shot against decent opposition other than Gold Coast which is looking like a very good win up there.

Our skills have deteriorated, a lot of sloppy, lazy football the past few weeks in particular.

We are classic downhill skiers and have been that way for 18 months.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,024]

Bullet like passes into a smaller fwd line, if we don’t mark it force a stoppage and set up behind the footy. Let the smalls / mids go to work.

[Bombay Airconditioning 6,024]

In other words what Collingwood is doing. Only difference is we can defend better.

[YearOfTheDees 3,142]

They're not running from the second they get the ball they all stop and wait for a cheap pass. Number of time we went forward and no body had run forward was incredible today. 

[chook fowler 18,610]

Our poor record with clearances is the problem, as it has been all year. I’m staggered that with all the coaches we have it hasn’t been fixed.

[Juk3b0x 166]

Agree with a number of points from OP, but the biggest being that our structure starts from the back.  We were at our most threatening with 3 tall's and Lever playing as the third.  We still have all the same players on the list, why the hell would be move them around from where they played their best, and where we looked our best.  It also had such a flow on effect to our small defenders, excepting the addition of McVee who I've been impressed with, who remain our same premiership winning line-up of Hibberd, Bowey, Rivers.  Gawn also played a bigger defensive role from the ruck, being a consistent marking thread staying a kick behind the ball when the team pushed forward, and I don't see this from Gawn/Grundy as often this year.

Our midfield setup just confuses me, and has for some time.  In our premiership year we often played from behind, less man on man at stoppages, running forward and it worked well, but as a number of opposition analyses show, it's not that hard to counter and seems to have been - Gawn likes to hit forward left/right of the centre bounce and stoppage, so when he rucks play their mid's the same way as ours and start from behind but hold back slightly from bursting through and we'll likely force feed them first use of the football.  At the same time their ruck aims to hit forward of the centre bounce should they win the tap and task the 3rd mid running forward of the centre as our midfielders seem coached to run through assuming we'll win majority of the taps.   So as expected we consistently win hit out's, but lose clearances and when we do lose its usually from opposition just walking the ball out uncontested, handballing wide, or winning an uncontested possession forward of the centre bounce when they do win the tap.

I honestly don't know what to say of our forwards... I don't watch them well enough.  But no one in the league would look at our team sheet and think we have any Key Forward that is particularly threatening or hard to stop (i.e. Cameron, Curnow etc) except maybe Fritsch who shouldn't have to shoulder that as a medium forward.  Our current tactic gives me PTSD flashbacks - long, high bombs to a pack of forwards who have posed zero big pack crushing/marking threats in 2 years.  JVR is too green, McDonald has the speed, turning circle and intensity of fully laden flat bed truck, BBB hasn't even been given the chance, and Petty just doesn't seem like to the guy for the job.  Our F50 small forward brigade, who were a thing to be feared in 2021 for their defensive pressure and crumbing ability don't seem to have hit any kind of consistent form this year.  Do we even know how to lead in our forward 50?  I'm not convinced its something anyone except Fritsch and maybe our resting midfielder in Petracca know how do to.

We've got most of the same cattle we had in 2021, all capable of playing the same roles where we looked our best.  We've lost Jackson but added a genuine talent in Grundy, have some fresh exciting players in the likes of McVee and Chandler.  Even in 2021 our forward setup seemed to rely on goals from our midfield and medium/small forwards, and not our necessarily on our tall's - how have we lost our edge so quickly?!

Edited May 27, 2023 by Juk3b0x

[layzie 30,446]

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

That is the most inaccurate post I have ever read on DL.

Probably a dozen clangers.

Turned it over continually.

 

 

His worst game in a while. 

[Binmans PA 26,761]

Mate, it's bizarre you're getting on here and writing a book (like I usually do) without having watched the game.

[Binmans PA 26,761]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

This thread isn't about today's game bro.

Clearly don't have set of eyes on you.

This is more of a summary of information built off the back of last years form, coaching concerns, forward set up the losses we've had this year and how we're losing them and also a few others.

The way we've been losing hasn't been remotely like 2022, except for ironically today's loss.

[DeeSpencer 23,689]

5 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

DS has a history of seeing the game in a completely different set of lense to everyone else.

Majority of the comments in the post game thread supports your argument about ANB's performance today.

He had a couple of shocking clangers, he had a couple of regulation mistakes that will happen when you have 18 touches and only 1 mark (ie very little uncontested kick mark). He had 9 tackles and some quality disposals and fought hard to halve a heap of contests.

He definitely was not the problem.

[SPC 3,070]

6 hours ago, Hellaintabadplacetobe said:

What happened to the corridor footy we saw pre season?? We rarely switch play, and barely even look to see if it's on.

The only thing we have changed about our F50 entries is it is not deep pocket every time. We still bomb it and teams run it out with ease and very little pressure. 

We are stale and have not fired a shot against decent opposition other than Gold Coast which is looking like a very good win up there.

Our skills have deteriorated, a lot of sloppy, lazy football the past few weeks in particular.

We are classic downhill skiers and have been that way for 18 months.

I actually think that we are best served by playing boundary line, safe footy atm. We have terrible foot skills and cannot defend turnovers. 
Collingwood are a great one on one team, going through the corridor suits them as any mistakes can be cleaned up. We are sloppy. 

[Wells 11 5,009]

As Im calming down after the game a few things stand out. It was a tough, hard fought contest against a good team hitting their straps now. It’s not a crime to lose to a likely finalist on a winning streak, but it’s still a game we should have won. 

1./ Basic errors in tight games kill you.  spargo spoils fritsch mark at 30 metres, harmes does the same to Jvr. Both players also miss sitters from 30 during the game. Grundy running in to goal unpressured from 35 misses. Errors will always happen but we made way too many. 

2./ simple but true… bad kicking  costs you in tight games . They kicked straight we didn’t. Picket 2x OOF to go with his 2 goals but there was many culprits.  Not just bad kicking  at goal either, our kicking all over the ground was riddled with poor choices. Trac def a culprit. 

3./ Lever is way down on form. Got to good places to impose himself but dropped marks he would normally take including the one that led to the sealer. 

4./ An intangible. It felt, at the ground, we just didn’t have a lot of spark. They are consistently tough and we should all appreciate that. But there just doesn’t seem to be much excitement between them or anyone to light that fuse. 

5./ We’re a good to very good side in 23. Top 4-6. But we’re no longer a great one. BBB and  Tmac are pretty much done now and they were both a big part of our flag year. Sadly I think We may have to adjust to the truth of where we actually sit in 23. 

[dazzledavey36 49,834]

7 hours ago, A F said:

Mate, it's bizarre you're getting on here and writing a book (like I usually do) without having watched the game.

Watched the first quarter late last night and just finishes watching the rest this morning

After watching the replay nothing has remotely changed my opinion at all.

We were soundly beaten in the clearence and stoppage game until we decided to pull our finger out in the last quarter. This sums up our year as a whole. 

We missed so many gettable opportunities that it would have infuriated supporters at the ground.

Again, where was our plan B? For instance it looked like there was a hard tag on Viney but yet we tried nothing to either mix this up or break this. When I say mix it up, where was the Pickett to midfield move to get a spark? I would have thrown Viney as a half forward and Pickett into the midfield.

Another thing that backed up my argument was the need for an extra tall defender. Lever is being greatly exposed and its costing us big time. God he was awful. He's so bereft of confidence that it's like seeing a completely different player to what he was back in 2021. This experiment needs to end immediately effectively.

I also thought Grundy was the better ruckman between he and Gawn. I'd like this to see Grundy spend big minutes in the ruck if it means we have to play Gawn deep.

Anyway, as I said, watching the replay did not deter from my original argument at all. It made zero difference. I'll repeat once again in that we seriously need a huge monumental change in attitude from both the coaches and the players.

[Gorgoroth 12,447]

9 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

DS has a history of seeing the game in a completely different set of lense to everyone else.

Majority of the comments in the post game thread supports your argument about ANB's performance today.

I’ll defend Nibbler a bit here, the pressure rating each time they showed it was in the elite category. He had some horrible moments but so did nearly everyone, multiple times.  He is just an easy target. He at least had a lot of defensive work and  tackling that others didn’t. 
Some don’t show as changers either like Trac running to 50 and blasting at goal when he had three options in f50 he could have chipped it too.

[BDA 20,895]

56 minutes ago, Wells 11 said:

4./ An intangible. It felt, at the ground, we just didn’t have a lot of spark. They are consistently tough and we should all appreciate that. But there just doesn’t seem to be much excitement between them or anyone to light that fuse. 

Everything is so painfully laboured. Moving the ball seems like such hard work. Our handballs cause the receiver the break stride. No flow or fluency at all. No connection.

I suggest the team head off to Bali during the bye and blow off some steam (I'm half serious). Find some joy because at the moment we're playing joyless footy. 

[dazzledavey36 49,834]

27 minutes ago, Gorgoroth said:

I’ll defend Nibbler a bit here, the pressure rating each time they showed it was in the elite category. He had some horrible moments but so did nearly everyone, multiple times.  He is just an easy target. He at least had a lot of defensive work and  tackling that others didn’t. 
Some don’t show as changers either like Trac running to 50 and blasting at goal when he had three options in f50 he could have chipped it too.

The issue with ANB is that his horrible moments are on display on a weekly basis. 

It's just so predictable that once the pressure goes up he crumbles and fumbles his way through like a bumbling mess.

Defensive and tackling shouldn't be a compensation for all of his deficiencies. It's getting to the point where it's costing us big time. His form last year in the back half was woeful. He alongside Spargo should have been dropped and given opportunities to Bedford.

The sooner we can add another talented small whether that's through the draft or trade period the better we can start phasing him out of the team.

 

Edited May 27, 2023 by dazzledavey36

[leave it to deever 16,594]

14 minutes ago, BDA said:

Everything is so painfully laboured. Moving the ball seems like such hard work. Our handballs cause the receiver the break stride. No flow or fluency at all. No connection.

I suggest the team head off to Bali during the bye and blow off some steam (I'm half serious). Find some joy because at the moment we're playing joyless footy. 

In 21, the team looked like it couldn't wait to get on the ground and play. Not now.

[Redleg 38,636]

35 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Watched the first quarter late last night and just finishes watching the rest this morning

After watching the replay nothing has remotely changed my opinion at all.

We were soundly beaten in the clearence and stoppage game until we decided to pull our finger out in the last quarter. This sums up our year as a whole. 

We missed so many gettable opportunities that it would have infuriated supporters at the ground.

Again, where was our plan B? For instance it looked like there was a hard tag on Viney but yet we tried nothing to either mix this up or break this. When I say mix it up, where was the Pickett to midfield move to get a spark? I would have thrown Viney as a half forward and Pickett into the midfield.

Another thing that backed up my argument was the need for an extra tall defender. Lever is being greatly exposed and its costing us big time. God he was awful. He's so bereft of confidence that it's like seeing a completely different player to what he was back in 2021. This experiment needs to end immediately effectively.

I also thought Grundy was the better ruckman between he and Gawn. I'd like this to see Grundy spend big minutes in the ruck if it means we have to play Gawn deep.

Anyway, as I said, watching the replay did not deter from my original argument at all. It made zero difference. I'll repeat once again in that we seriously need a huge monumental change in attitude from both the coaches and the players.

Everything you posted, I said to my son at the game.

I added, our disposal was terrible, 66% cannot win a a game, we showed no aggression, especially at LJ and more so when Darcy went off, allowing LJ to follow up and win the game for them, they didn’t miss, we too often did, we never short passed going into forward 50 and our forward line has a kid, a cooked player, an injured/lacking confidence one and too many small forwards who had no impact and we lacked awareness, spoiling team mates and costing a few certain goals.

Our GF team would have killed our side yesterday. Clarry and Petty out cost us beyond belief.

[leave it to deever 16,594]

42 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

gain, where was our plan B? For instance it looked like there was a hard tag on Viney but yet we tried nothing to either mix this up or break this. When I say mix it up, where was the Pickett to midfield move to get a spark? I would have thrown Viney as a half forward and Pickett into the midfield

Your not alone it thinking this. Given that Oliver wasn't playing,  it was a bit of a no brainer. JV had a very unusual one kick, one handball and no marks tally for the entire first half.

Goody is a premiership coach and maybe him being stuck in his ways served us well in 21. It didn't yesterday. 

[Gorgoroth 12,447]

12 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

The issue with ANB is that his horrible moments are on display on a weekly basis. 

It's just so predictable that once the pressure goes up he crumbles and fumbles his way through like a bumbling mess.

Defensive and tackling shouldn't be a compensation for all of his deficiencies. It's getting to the point where it's costing us big time. His form last year in the back half was woeful. He alongside Spargo should have been dropped and given opportunities to Bedford.

The sooner we can add another talented small whether that's through the draft or trade period the better we can start phasing him out of the team.

 

But if the rest of the team harassed, tackled etc. as much as he does then he doesn’t have to try and do it all. He had more tackles, disposals, pressure acts than Kozzie, Sparta and Chandler and yes a few more turnovers. 
He is a cog, and important cog and yea he will butcher it from time to time but so did/do the others. And I think all our smalls are suffering from the selection of too many talls. Drop Tmac for a small/mid and watch our game become better.

[leave it to deever 16,594]

1 hour ago, Wells 11 said:

/ We’re a good to very good side in 23. Top 4-6. But we’re no longer a great one. BBB and  Tmac are pretty much done now and they were both a big part of our flag year. Sadly I think We may have to adjust to the truth of where we actually sit in

Yep. Now  that, I've accepted this, as painful as it is, it helps. Collingwood is the new 21 us.

I kinda got this feeling about we we sit, against the Suns game. I just hope that despite dropping games to lower sides on our home ground, we take a few scalps as well.

I think we might scrape into the top 4 on%. Notwithstanding the Pies, it is a tight competition.

Really lamenting the squandered opportunity of last years chance. It didn't phase me as much then, because I was still high on the flag fumes.

Maybe the players were as well. It happens.