On 15/04/2023 at 13:42, Dr. Gonzo said:

Yes and no - a trip across the Nullarbor returning late Sunday then off to Adelaide a few days later can throw people's routines off which can in turn impact their mindset. Not using it as an excuse by any means but I can see how it could be a factor. What seemed to happen though is when Essendon upped the ante and showed they were up for a fight and weren't just gonna turn their toes up our guys seemed to throw in the towel and couldn't be bothered. That's not the standard we've come to expect over the last 2 years.

Why didn't the team entertain staying in Adelaide and not coming all the way back to Melbourne?

  On 16/04/2023 at 04:19, WalkingCivilWar said:

wizened

It's a word that doesn't get enough usage. Demonstone would be proud.

  On 16/04/2023 at 04:21, whatwhat say what said:

except any b grade ruckman worth their salt wants to play in the team not in the vfl

look at peptides - phillips is a very capable body, and part of their regular best 22

there's not many of his type running around at second level and on afl lists; if they command a position in the squad then more often than not they're in the side

Reasonable money talks

And although we have 2 x A grade ruckman one is getting on and the other is a bit injury prone

So the 3rd AFL standard ruckman would almost certainly get game time and be paid ok money.  And that scenario can be sold to the prospective ruckman

Years ago clubs had up to 5 ruckman on a list but only 2 played

We are slowly moving to a squad mentality where all bases need to be covered

And what's one spot in the list anyway?  We've usually got 6-8 spots taken up by players who will be lucky to make it in the big time anyway

  On 16/04/2023 at 05:13, Macca said:

Reasonable money talks

And although we have 2 x A grade ruckman one is getting on and the other is a bit injury prone

So the 3rd AFL standard ruckman would almost certainly get game time and be paid ok money.  And that scenario can be sold to the prospective ruckman

Years ago clubs had up to 5 ruckman on a list but only 2 played

We are slowly moving to a squad mentality where all bases need to be covered

And what's one spot in the list anyway?  We've usually got 6-8 spots taken up by players who will be lucky to make it in the big time anyway

you'd be negligent in yr squad make-up if yr gonna pay 'reasonable money' to someone who is not in consideration for best 23

  On 16/04/2023 at 02:17, Macca said:

Spargo ducking his head was really dangerous and the coaches need to get that out of his game

He's lucky he only got concussion out of the incident so he's a lucky lad.  Ducking your head into an oncoming hip is asking for trouble

I reckon that hip could have avoided that head.

The head was stationary the hip was moving.

  On 16/04/2023 at 05:16, whatwhat say what said:

you'd be negligent in yr squad make-up if yr gonna pay 'reasonable money' to someone who is not in consideration for best 23

No not at all ... what would be negligent is leaving yourself short like we have done

Sports all around the world see players on reasonable coin as back-up ... and it will happen here as more money comes into the sport

Say $400k - $450k with the promise that that player would play 8-10 games.  Barring injury you'd rest Grundy and Gawn for about 4 games each

Add in injuries and the back-up might play 12-14 games

Or we could persevere with non ruckmen as the 2nd ruck.  Which to me, is unprofessional

  On 16/04/2023 at 05:28, Willmoy1947 said:

The head was stationary the hip was moving.

 

He ducked his head into the oncoming player.  That's on Spargo and he was rightfully pinged

Great decision by the umpire

By the way, if we're are being honest we had the better of the umpiring yesterday as we did against the Eagles

 

Edited April 16, 20232 yr by Macca

I didn’t think the umpires had any impact on the game at all. We got belted around the contest and outworked on spread. 

  On 16/04/2023 at 05:41, The heart beats true said:

I didn’t think the umpires had any impact on the game at all. We got belted around the contest and outworked on spread. 

Spot on

Yesterday's reaction to the umpiring reminded me of the Neeld reign.  i.e very few complaints

We were so bad back then that the large majority realised that the umpiring had zero effect on our crud play.

The last couple of years i have been use to seeing us dish out almighty fistings, but credit where credit is due we got given a real awakening fisting last night.

What ever the reasoning behind the result, i hope this opens the players eyes to the need of respecting all our opponents we come up against.

We played like a team who had other things on their minds other than football.

  On 16/04/2023 at 05:41, The heart beats true said:

I didn’t think the umpires had any impact on the game at all. We got belted around the contest and outworked on spread. 

They did have some impact. They called a comical ruck free against Draper about 15 meters from goal which JVR converted. 

  On 16/04/2023 at 05:32, Macca said:

No not at all ... what would be negligent is leaving yourself short like we have done

Sports all around the world see players on reasonable coin as back-up ... and it will happen here as more money comes into the sport

Say $400k - $450k with the promise that that player would play 8-10 games.  Barring injury you'd rest Grundy and Gawn for about 4 games each

Add in injuries and the back-up might play 12-14 games

Or we could persevere with non ruckmen as the 2nd ruck.  Which to me, is unprofessional

i think we'll agree to disagree on that one

that's totally not something i think would be a sensible thing to do

i'll trust our list management strategists as they're the experts, after all

  On 16/04/2023 at 06:05, whatwhat say what said:

i think we'll agree to disagree on that one

that's totally not something i think would be a sensible thing to do

i'll trust our list management strategists as they're the experts, after all

So what is sensible? ... paying Schache & Dunstan reasonable coin and only using them in an emergency

The way you're carrying on you've got me spending $Millions on a 3rd ruckman

Which is not what I'm advocating .. are you reading what I've got to say carefully or glossing over?

$400k - $450k and there would be a ruckman out there we could snag.  Someone is missing out

So you can default to your list management strategists argument but as good as they are they can still overlook an issue

So are you happy to go into a finals campaign with Tommy Mac as the 2nd ruck? With the chance of being up against 2 decent types like we faced yesterday?

  On 16/04/2023 at 06:14, Macca said:

So what is sensible? ... paying Schache & Dunstan reasonable coin and only using them in an emergency

The way you're carrying on you've got me spending $Millions on a 3rd ruckman

Which is not what I'm advocating .. are you reading what I've got to say carefully or glossing over?

$400k - $450k and there would be a ruckman out there we could snag.  Someone is missing out

So you can default to your list management strategists argument but as good as they are they can still overlook an issue

So are you happy to go into a finals campaign with Tommy Mac as the 2nd ruck? With the chance of being up against 2 decent types like we faced yesterday?

you don't spent shy of half a million of a $13.5m cap on a player yr not intending to play

which is essentially what you are advocating

i am also saying that anyone on that sort of coin expects to be playing senior footy

  On 16/04/2023 at 05:36, Macca said:

 

He ducked his head into the oncoming player.  That's on Spargo and he was rightfully pinged

Great decision by the umpire

By the way, if we're are being honest we had the better of the umpiring yesterday as we did against the Eagles

 

You don't understand that on Land it's never our fault do you.

  On 16/04/2023 at 01:43, BoBo said:

Hard to argue with that. Goodwin backs us in to regain momentum mostly by depending on us to win back contested ball. Yesterday and the lions felt the same purely because they knew we were going to be predictable and were set up to absorb it. 
 

It’s clear now that teams have the blue print on how to beat us and will do it all year unless Goodwin can make it so we aren’t so  predictable which plays into opposition plans. Wouldn’t mind seeing us switch more to be honest just to make oppositions have to change their set up, up the ground. We kick it straight to a contest constantly in which Essendon was winning at ground level. I don’t understand the point in persisting with that when we are getting outworked around the ball. 

Goodwin did adjust the plan in the off season  so that's all we're going to get.

Flexible  creative not

Edited April 16, 20232 yr by IRW

i thought goodwin threw a lot at the wall yesterday - shifted oliver out of the centre square to break the tag, rivers into the guts, brayshaw up onto the wing, jvr / plugger pushed back to gap cover when petty was off with sore ribs, trac moved permanent forward to replace the 'connection' that spargo's absence caused...

nothing works cos the peptides were too good

  On 16/04/2023 at 06:23, whatwhat say what said:

you don't spent shy of half a million of a $13.5m cap on a player yr not intending to play

which is essentially what you are advocating

i am also saying that anyone on that sort of coin expects to be playing senior footy

Not what I said ..

I'm advocating paying a 3rd ruckman $400k - $450k and then playing that player for at least 8 games (Gawn & Grundy rested for 4 games each)

So not half a million and not never playing seniors.  You said that, not me

And if Gawn or Grundy get injured the 3rd ruckman might play up to 14 games or even more

So keep your fingers crossed that Grundy doesn't go down with the extra workload

By the way, that scenario would have crossed the minds of most demon supporters.  It's our worst nightmare

I'm not sure we can win a flag without a decent 2nd ruckman

I rate ruckman higher than most and in my view, their value is often understated (except when it comes to Gawn where most see him as a great ruckman and a matchwinner)

I'll be happy if Gawn returns and we can get through the season unscathed.  Chances of that happening ... 50/50

 

 

Edited April 16, 20232 yr by Macca

  On 16/04/2023 at 06:31, IRW said:

You don't understand that on Land it's never our fault do you.

Oh I've been in some barney's here IRW, I can assure you

Going right back to when I dared to question the untouchable Neeld.  I swear he was miles more protected than Goodwin.  Which makes no sense

See you on the cycling thread

Edited April 16, 20232 yr by Macca

  On 15/04/2023 at 14:03, Jumping Jack Clennett said:

Spargo certainly ducked his head, so it was correct not to give him a free…..but to penalise him for incorrect disposal? He was semi-conscious when the ball came out of his hands. 
Ducking the head to try to avoid a tackle should certainly not be rewarded with a free, but the tackler still has a duty of care not to concuss the ducker.

100% correct.  Redmann CHOSE to bump rather than use his arms to tackle.  Spargo did not duck.  He was in a crouch position after taking possession of the ball, sizing up his options to move the ball forward.  Had he been tackled and retained the ball, then no problem, absolute holding the ball.  But he was knocked senseless by the knock to his head from Redmann's hip, while he still had the ball.  To rub salt into the wound, the ump insisted he stand the mark for Redmann's free kick.  As a result and due to concussion protocols, Spargs will miss next week.  Redmann won't. 

We dusted off our game plan from the Brisbane game. Fumbly, inaccurate by hand and foot, and second to the ball. As added spice, our usually reliable defenders were clumsy and spoiled each other.

  On 15/04/2023 at 22:25, leave it to deever said:

 

We don't look like premiers at this point in time and I'm not sure how we fix our fwd problem. Yea we will play finals but like last year will be beaten again. I just don't see the commitment from them.

 

Good post but I would argue our problems stem from the midfield. In both the Brisbane and Essendon games we've been flogged in the midfield early.

How Draper is not on report for jumping and kneeing TMac is beyond me.

  On 16/04/2023 at 09:42, jnrmac said:

How Draper is not on report for jumping and kneeing TMac is beyond me.

Simple, we don’t complain in the presser like Scotty the sook