At some stage the game will become non contact, probably not in my lifetime.

Otherwise it will go the way of the Gladiators.

Things change, nothing stays the same.

  On 14/03/2023 at 04:00, Lucifers Hero said:

Not too sure.

I'm no lawyer but I would think the 'injured' has to 1) show cause and effect between the events and the injury, 2) there was negligence on the part of the accused and 3) that the injury caused or will cause quantifiable losses.  There may be other criteria that come into play...

Not sure what the level of proof is for those three things (and any other criteria) but I would think it has to be reasonably substantial.

Should be an interesting test case.

Could be a bit of Volenti non fit injuria...

  On 14/03/2023 at 04:10, Deebauched said:

Just wait for ex AFLW players to get in on the action over the next 20 years.

Its going to be hard though to prove your headaches or mood swings are because of playing footy years ago not to mention the makeup of player contracts. A woman will sue because she cant have kids or has cancer of some kind.

There's now a second class action.  Former Demon high-flyer Shaun Smith is a lead plaintiff in this one.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/jarman-smith-tuck-lead-second-concussion-class-action-against-afl-20230315-p5csbl.html

NRL has just gone to a 14 day mandatory time off following a concussion. Finally catching up to the AFL.

This is expected.  Between the 2 articles some interesting points.  One of a player who took out premnament disability insurance (He got a payout for his concussion injury) and he said other players should too at the start of their careers.

The AFLW player is interesting, (I don't know her history) given the short span of their competition at AFL level.  How many did she receive  in her juniors etc?  I coach junior girls footy, I spend time making sure they know how to approach the ball and protect their heads with good technique.

If it gets the trial, will the players need to bring up footage of every hit and who was negligent and why in the head contact?  As degrees of negligence is possible.

 

Lastly if one article which included Smith and Jarmen etc.  They are starting the case of duty of care from 1985, which was when a major study found the long term damaged from concussion on sporting players.  While recent action has seen an improvement in dealing with it, there a few decades the AFL did not address it.

This is going to be a long process and it will be interesting to see how the AFL respond with a hard legal defence or reach a compromise and fund ongoing player welfare and support programs. 

 

 

  On 15/03/2023 at 02:56, Jaded No More said:

NRL has just gone to a 14 day mandatory time off following a concussion. Finally catching up to the AFL.

I heard it was 11.   

 

Just heard Jordan Lewis on AFL 360 who went through his issues following a concussion in 2011 - went back on after a cursory flawed test.  Said he felt OK during the following weeks during training, but game day pressure left him feeling like he had had a few drinks, for about a month.  He said he would support even 4 weeks mandatory lay off.

Edited March 15, 20232 yr by monoccular

  On 14/03/2023 at 04:10, Deebauched said:

This was always going to happen in a world full of ambulance chasing law firms. Settle out of court with cashed up corporations is their bread and butter.

Just wait for ex AFLW players to get in on the action over the next 20 years.

Its going to be hard though to prove your headaches or mood swings are because of playing footy years ago not to mention the makeup of player contracts. A woman will sue because she cant have kids or has cancer of some kind.

It will happen. Its called money.

 

 

Good grief.

  On 15/03/2023 at 10:48, monoccular said:

I heard it was 11.   

 

Just heard Jordan Lewis on AFL 360 who went through his issues following a concussion in 2011 - went back on after a cursory flawed test.  Said he felt OK during the following weeks during training, but game day pressure left him feeling like he had had a few drinks, for about a month.  He said he would support even 4 weeks mandatory lay off.

I heard an interview years ago (Maybe 10ish years?) of a recently retired Rugby player (he wasn't a big name at all and I don't even remember which code he played) that was about 30. The reason he had to retire was because of 'concussion related injuries'. I can only assume this was further to the extreme end of concussion induced brain injuries, but this guy had short term memory issues to the extent where his wife would make sure his house keys went into the same bowl in the hallway of their house everyday. And everyday he would struggle to be able to find them. I *think* he said he had a short term memory of a couple minutes? So effectively analogous to early stages of dementia in terms of short term memory loss. 

He'd also have dramatic mood swings and struggled with emotional regulation and was quick to anger which wasn't really a part of his personality years before.

Because of all of this he wasn't able to work and in a lot of ways could only function with his wife's assistance. 

It was really eye opening because it made me think of all the Rugby/AFL players that had to retire because of concussion related brain injuries and what exactly their day to day lives were like. 
 

  On 15/03/2023 at 11:30, BoBo said:

I heard an interview years ago (Maybe 10ish years?) of a recently retired Rugby player (he wasn't a big name at all and I don't even remember which code he played) that was about 30. The reason he had to retire was because of 'concussion related injuries'. I can only assume this was further to the extreme end of concussion induced brain injuries, but this guy had short term memory issues to the extent where his wife would make sure his house keys went into the same bowl in the hallway of their house everyday. And everyday he would struggle to be able to find them. I *think* he said he had a short term memory of a couple minutes? So effectively analogous to early stages of dementia in terms of short term memory loss. 

He'd also have dramatic mood swings and struggled with emotional regulation and was quick to anger which wasn't really a part of his personality years before.

Because of all of this he wasn't able to work and in a lot of ways could only function with his wife's assistance. 

It was really eye opening because it made me think of all the Rugby/AFL players that had to retire because of concussion related brain injuries and what exactly their day to day lives were like. 
 

Yes, that's very true.  Ian Roberts from NRL has also talked about it, I think there was a 'You Can't Ask That' episode (on ABC) where he did so 

  On 15/03/2023 at 11:45, DeelightfulPlay said:

Yes, that's very true.  Ian Roberts from NRL has also talked about it, I think there was a 'You Can't Ask That' episode (on ABC) where he did so 

Oh great, I’ll give that a watch. Thanks!

Given players are beginning to sue the AFL, I honestly think they (the AFL) have no option but to step in and not allow Paddy McCartin to continue playing. 

  On 10/04/2023 at 10:33, Ethan Tremblay said:

Given players are beginning to sue the AFL, I honestly think they (the AFL) have no option but to step in and not allow Paddy McCartin to continue playing. 

Sad as it is 'Ethan', you are probably right.

The question then is...where does it sit with the law?

Could he sue the AFL for not letting him play?

Interesting times ahead.

Edited April 10, 20232 yr by rjay

  On 10/04/2023 at 11:04, rjay said:

Sad as it is 'Ethan', you are probably right.

The question then is...where does it sit with the law?

Could he sue the AFL for not letting him play?

Interesting times ahead.

Impossible position. 

  On 10/04/2023 at 10:33, Ethan Tremblay said:

Given players are beginning to sue the AFL, I honestly think they (the AFL) have no option but to step in and not allow Paddy McCartin to continue playing. 

I don't know of any (current) rules that would allow the AFL to step in, though no doubt they could invoke some "special" ruling to compensate $ydney for his list position were he to retire.

On the subject, I didn't watch the entire farce at the MCG today but I did see a couple of pretty hard slam tackles where the head hit the ground.  Will these be cited by the "independent" MRO?

  On 10/04/2023 at 10:33, Ethan Tremblay said:

Given players are beginning to sue the AFL, I honestly think they (the AFL) have no option but to step in and not allow Paddy McCartin to continue playing. 

it’s a delicate situation isn’t it.  I’m sure Paddy, his family and the swans are listening to his doctor(s) more than any other outside voices. At least I hope so. He’s become an important player for them so I hope any drive for club success or money isn’t made bigger than his health concerns. The swans seem pretty together as a club and I’d tend to trust them in this matter.

On a club level Angus Brayshaw was v nearly in the same category as Paddy.  I wonder how Angus, us supporters, and the club itself would feel if his doctors said he was ok to keep playing and the AFL made him retire? 

It’s got to be either Paddy’s choice on his own or on a doctors insistence. In a case like this I think the medical findings need to be made transparent to the AFL. Then, if paddy wanted to ignore that advice , the AFL would have to act. 

AFL needs to set a threshold and if a player wishes to keep playing after reaching that threshold then they loose the ability to sue for damages later. If the afl allows players like McCartin to continue to play without any kind of waver then they are opening them self upto all kinds of issues down the track, inversely I don’t think a player should be forced to retire and forgo what could be a very lucrative career based on advise that changes by the day and is so open to interpretation. Just like how people do other jobs that knowingly put them self in danger as part of the job players need to be the one to make the choice eyes wide open if they want to run onto the field and risk permanent injury 

Garry Lyon said let's not all rush to retire Paddy Mccartin and I gotta say I agree. As pbvious as it may seem he wpuld have had a number of protocols checked off.

Watched the game today and Bews collided with another player only to come back on again then come off with delayed effects. Something seemed out of whack there. Surely the protocols need tightening.