CHANGES: Rd 20 vs Fremantle

[Harrison Petty GOAT 44]

I thought our forward line worked pretty well booting 15 goals, surprisingly our defense wasn't playing at there best. But really it all comes down to our midfield whether we play well or not.

[binman 43,817]

10 hours ago, whatwhat say what said:

where do you stand on the expectation of the move to play two key forwards going forward from now?

I'm still convinced we will end up with the two talls - not sure if that wik be this week now as i cant see Mitch Brown coming into the side, and JVR is a long shot to be selected, at least this week (i have sneaky feeling he might get a shot on the eve of finals).

If BB is right to go next week, and Weed plays ok, i suspect they will both be selected next week

[whatwhat say what 22,949]

28 minutes ago, binman said:

I'm still convinced we will end up with the two talls - not sure if that wik be this week now as i cant see Mitch Brown coming into the side, and JVR is a long shot to be selected, at least this week (i have sneaky feeling he might get a shot on the eve of finals).

If BB is right to go next week, and Weed plays ok, i suspect they will both be selected next week

i was thinking the same thing but their pressure rating being so poor has me concerned 

[binman 43,817]

6 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

i was thinking the same thing but their pressure rating being so poor has me concerned 

BB's pressure doesn't worry me so much as he competes hard in the air, which i'm not even sure if that is factored into the pressure rating that has been bandied about

Weed's pressure absolutely worries me - on the ground and in the air.

Weed just disappeared in the second half against the dogs in terms of possessions, marks etc. Which wouldn't be such an issue if he applied big pressure in the air and on the ground. Which he didn't - not even close.  

[dimmy 1,308]

1 hour ago, binman said:

BB's pressure doesn't worry me so much as he competes hard in the air, which i'm not even sure if that is factored into the pressure rating that has been bandied about

Weed's pressure absolutely worries me - on the ground and in the air.

Weed just disappeared in the second half against the dogs in terms of possessions, marks etc. Which wouldn't be such an issue if he applied big pressure in the air and on the ground. Which he didn't - not even close.  

Bit hard to take marks/compete when the ball is down the other end of the ground.

[layzie 34,014]

1 hour ago, binman said:

BB's pressure doesn't worry me so much as he competes hard in the air, which i'm not even sure if that is factored into the pressure rating that has been bandied about

Weed's pressure absolutely worries me - on the ground and in the air.

Weed just disappeared in the second half against the dogs in terms of possessions, marks etc. Which wouldn't be such an issue if he applied big pressure in the air and on the ground. Which he didn't - not even close.  

He just doesn't do it for long enough. I know people attack Weid bashers for expecting too much from a high pick but the physical side that I'd like to see from him is something I would have expected from someone with his stature. 

[1964_2 2,357]

1 hour ago, binman said:

I'm still convinced we will end up with the two talls - not sure if that wik be this week now as i cant see Mitch Brown coming into the side, and JVR is a long shot to be selected, at least this week (i have sneaky feeling he might get a shot on the eve of finals).

If BB is right to go next week, and Weed plays ok, i suspect they will both be selected next week

I am concerned about the ability for Weid & BB to play in the same team. 
 

Weid’s games without BB this year

R3.       4.3 goals, 7 marks, 11 possessions 

R4.      0 goals, 3 marks, 7 poss.   (Raining, wet)

R5.       1.1 goals, 4 marks, 8 poss 

R19.      3 goals, 4 marks, 10 poss

 

Weid’s games with BB

R6.         3 goals, 1 mark, 8 poss 

R7.          1 goal, 1 mark, 8 poss

R11.        0.1 goals, 3 marks, 7 poss

R15.        0.1 goals, 1 mark, 11 poss 

R16         0 goals, 3 marks, 12 poss

 

Without BB - Ave 2 goals, 4.5 marks, 9 poss

With BB - Ave 0.8 goals, 1.8 marks, 9.2 poss 

 

If no BB, Weid has shown himself to be valuable, or at least our best option.

 

With BB, his contribution is down, & there is a void for the team to cover 2 players with very poor defensive pressure 

 

[binman 43,817]

1 hour ago, 1964_2 said:

I am concerned about the ability for Weid & BB to play in the same team. 
 

Weid’s games without BB this year

R3.       4.3 goals, 7 marks, 11 possessions 

R4.      0 goals, 3 marks, 7 poss.   (Raining, wet)

R5.       1.1 goals, 4 marks, 8 poss 

R19.      3 goals, 4 marks, 10 poss

 

Weid’s games with BB

R6.         3 goals, 1 mark, 8 poss 

R7.          1 goal, 1 mark, 8 poss

R11.        0.1 goals, 3 marks, 7 poss

R15.        0.1 goals, 1 mark, 11 poss 

R16         0 goals, 3 marks, 12 poss

 

Without BB - Ave 2 goals, 4.5 marks, 9 poss

With BB - Ave 0.8 goals, 1.8 marks, 9.2 poss 

 

If no BB, Weid has shown himself to be valuable, or at least our best option.

 

With BB, his contribution is down, & there is a void for the team to cover 2 players with very poor defensive pressure 

 

I see Smith is back this week. 

The more I think of it, the more I like the idea of Smith playing the second tall role.

He is everything weed isn't - high intensity, hard at it and loves the contest. 

And I've always liked the idea of him as a forward - his chaos style, speed and athleticism suits what we need down there, which is almost the forward equivalent of a zone off defender ie get across to aerial contests and either take a big grab or failing that make sure the ball comes to ground.

And Smith could also be used as defensive forward to nullify players like Aliir.

At 191 cms, he's six centimeters shorter than weed (but 3cms taller than fritter), so obviously he's not going to be a genuine tall.

But that is offset somewhat by his huge leap.

Accurate kick for goal too.

And perhaps creates a match up issue as he is pretty quick and with his height and leap, probably needs a reasonably big defender.

Edited July 27, 2022 by binman

[Fat Tony 5,273]

1 hour ago, binman said:

BB's pressure doesn't worry me so much as he competes hard in the air, which i'm not even sure if that is factored into the pressure rating that has been bandied about

Weed's pressure absolutely worries me - on the ground and in the air.

Weed just disappeared in the second half against the dogs in terms of possessions, marks etc. Which wouldn't be such an issue if he applied big pressure in the air and on the ground. Which he didn't - not even close.  

Weideman and Brown both offer similar amounts offensively. Why does Brown get a leave pass?

Brown can compete better in the air when he gets a run and jump but both get moved off the ball too easily.

We can't play both in the same side and our best side might be with neither. We played exceptional footy at the start of last year with TMac and Jackson.

[binman 43,817]

Just now, Fat Tony said:

Weideman and Brown both offer similar amounts offensively. Why does Brown get a leave pass?

Because, as I said, he competes hard in the air and rarely gets outmarked when up and about.

Weed doesn't compete hard on the air, and often gets outmarked, even when he is up.and about.

[loges 6,767]

49 minutes ago, dimmy said:

Bit hard to take marks/compete when the ball is down the other end of the ground.

We kicked 100 points 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 minute ago, binman said:

Because, as I said, he competes hard in the air and rarely gets outmarked when up and about.

Weed doesn't compete hard on the air, and often gets outmarked, even when he is up.and about.

Hasn't been 'up and about' this year then for the most part. Back a few weeks ago the article about our forward targets mentioned he's been 'targeted' the most for one on ones and only marked it once and was outmarked 8 times.

As far as contested marks goes, Ben Brown is ahead of Weid by 0.1 per game.

Disagree Weid doesn't compete well in the air, that's actually a strength of his, IMO his weakness is competing in the packs where he doesn't get to have a run and jump - he's never been good at that and his second half against the Dogs was poor for that even by his standards.

[Fat Tony 5,273]

3 minutes ago, binman said:

Because, as I said, he competes hard in the air and rarely gets outmarked when up and about.

Weed doesn't compete hard on the air, and often gets outmarked, even when he is up.and about.

I have a different perspective.

Brown regularly gets blocked or pushed under the ball.

They are similar in terms of contested marks and Brown averages 1.9 spoils per game versus 1.3 for Weideman. But Brown gives away 1.1 frees per game versus 0.8 for Weideman.

And at least we can have more trust Weideman to put his body on the line for a ground ball.

[loges 6,767]

1 minute ago, Fat Tony said:

I have a different perspective.

Brown regularly gets blocked or pushed under the ball.

They are similar in terms of contested marks and Brown averages 1.9 spoils per game versus 1.3 for Weideman. But Brown gives away 1.1 frees per game versus 0.8 for Weideman.

And at least we can have more trust Weideman to put his body on the line for a ground ball.

Can we though 

[Fat Tony 5,273]

1 minute ago, loges said:

Can we though 

I don't see courage as being Weideman's weakness. Agility, reading the play, lack of height and strength and clunking marks are his issues.

[Lucifers Hero 40,364]

big-docker-on-standby-to-combat-dees-dynamic-ruck-duo

Meek might play.  An audition?

An interesting discussion about the state of Optus Oval surface.  It looks like Freo have been given special permission to train at Optus because of the rain and state of the ground.  They don't play well in the wet.

It looks they could go in fairly tall at both ends of the ground which is odd as they know Brown won't be playing.

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Lucifers Hero

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

28 minutes ago, binman said:

Because, as I said, he competes hard in the air and rarely gets outmarked when up and about.

When up and about.. 

How often has that happened this year? 

His lack of form has clearly contributed to our woes forward of the ball. 

Brown, Weed and Fritsch are all in the top 10 for least pressure applied within the AFL. 

And Brown has absolutely been out bodied and out marked throughout many games this year. Far more often than he's taken a contested mark. 

[old dee 23,872]

2 hours ago, binman said:

BB's pressure doesn't worry me so much as he competes hard in the air, which i'm not even sure if that is factored into the pressure rating that has been bandied about

Weed's pressure absolutely worries me - on the ground and in the air.

Weed just disappeared in the second half against the dogs in terms of possessions, marks etc. Which wouldn't be such an issue if he applied big pressure in the air and on the ground. Which he didn't - not even close.  

Binman I am not sure why people all of a sudden expect the Weid to be different. Since his first game years ago he has seldom if every contributed for four quarters and seldom applied much pressure. Last weekend he started very well then almost disappears. Watching on tv you could be forgiven for thinking he was not on the ground. The best we can hope for is the odd good quarter. 

[Spargonicus 539]

I think what some people are forgetting about last season, is that we had an injection of young talent into the team - especially towards the end of the season, with Bowey debuting and doing very well. It massively (stop saying massive) injected energy into the rest of the playing group.

I agree with those calling for one or more of Smith, JVR and Chandler to be brought into team.

New/unseen talent also makes it harder for opposition teams who have "worked us out".

Happy to eat my words (or my cake that I've already had) if we win with no changes this week.

[old dee 23,872]

If Brown is ok he comes in this week and the Weid stays as there simply are no other tall forwards available this week. Like last weekend God knows how we will kick a winning score.

[1964_2 2,357]

2 minutes ago, old dee said:

If Brown is ok he comes in this week and the Weid stays as there simply are no other tall forwards available this week. Like last weekend God knows how we will kick a winning score.

Brown already ruled out

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 minute ago, old dee said:

If Brown is ok he comes in this week and the Weid stays as there simply are no other tall forwards available this week. Like last weekend God knows how we will kick a winning score.

Hey OD, Goody has already said earlier in the week BBB won't be playing this week.

Personally I'd love to see JVR in, reckon we need a second 'proper' tall in that forward line and even though JVR is young and not super tall he'll bring the mongrel and intensity we need in that forward half IMO.

[binman 43,817]

49 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Disagree Weid doesn't compete well in the air, that's actually a strength of his, IMO his weakness is competing in the packs where he doesn't get to have a run and jump - he's never been good at that and his second half against the Dogs was poor for that even by his standards.

Yes, that is what i mean.

BB is better in these contests - which are the majority of the contest our talls are involved in.

Agree Weed is much better when he gets a chance to run and jump at contests. He looks so much better when he has space.

But with our method (ie kick to big packs, little separation for forwards, crowded inside 50s etc etc) he gets bugger all opportunities to run and jump at contests.

Weed has got maybe one, two max, chances to lock in the second tall positions. I hope he takes his chance. 

Edited July 27, 2022 by binman

[binman 43,817]

9 minutes ago, old dee said:

Binman I am not sure why people all of a sudden expect the Weid to be different. Since his first game years ago he has seldom if every contributed for four quarters and seldom applied much pressure. Last weekend he started very well then almost disappears. Watching on tv you could be forgiven for thinking he was not on the ground. The best we can hope for is the odd good quarter. 

I don't expect him to be different.

I hope he will be different. 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

4 minutes ago, binman said:

Yes, that is what i mean.

BB is better in these contests 

Agree Weed is much better when he gets a chance to run and jump at contests. He looks so much better when he has space.

But with our method (ie kick to big packs, little separation for forwards, crowded inside 50s etc etc) he gets bugger all opportunities to run and jump at contests.

Weed has got maybe one, two max, chances to lock in the second tall positions. I hope he takes his chance. 

Yeah gotcha! We're in agreement then mate.

Wondering now too, as we've spoken about BBB's form, it does seem to have coincided with his knee flaring up. He's a much better player than his second half of the season form says, so wonder if that's a big part of it?

The irony with Weid is, he may end up not on our list for the very same reason Brown ended up not on North's. He's a leading forward, not great with the packs and pressure, in a team that relies more on pressure and contests (which is apparently the direction north wanted to go when not re-signing Brown).

I'm resigned to Weid just being depth tbh, think he's a long shot to lock in a spot in the 22 for finals (pending Brown's injury status).

Edited July 27, 2022 by Lord Nev