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Farewell Brodie Grundy


Ouch!

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Good stuff from Goody calling out the media.

One thing we have to remember is that McInerney has had to carry a huge load this year and Maxy has had to do a lot less than previous seasons. This would have to be a factor in how he performed on the weekend and this is only going to be a larger factor into finals. Both Gawn and Grundy will be as fresh as they probably ever have for a finals series.

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13 minutes ago, layzie said:

The way Goodwin has handled this one has been quite exemplary. 

I agree but I still think we should have come out on the front foot with this messaging.

Managing or Omitting Grundy for whatever reasons be they to hone his forward craft for Goody's reasons above or even manage any soreness was always going to create media hysteria. We should have been ready for that.

I think his omission was leaked due to Tom Morris' involvement in the "breaking" of this story. We need to look at plugging this hole because we've been good in this area (not leaking) over the last few years.

In addition we needed to be ahead of this story so we could have at least put our narrative out there. Yes the media will always be the media and put their own spin on it but when you're on the back foot you always look like your hiding something. Probably not the case here but when the media gets to frame the narrative it spreads like wildfire.

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59 minutes ago, Katrina Dee Fan said:

Good on Goodwin slamming the trade rumours, and confirming Grundy is staying.  Why the club couldn't do it yesterday I don't know, but they have now, and hopefully that's the end of the matter

Clubs say alot of things Katrina.

While i'm sure this is probably the thinking, and may well be for some time, things can change quickly at club land.

Stewart Dew one recent example.

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2 hours ago, Jaded No More said:

He is wrong, because as you said, his assertion, like the rest of the media, is that we are trying to turn him into a 40 goal a season KPF. We are not. 

Sorry Jaded, Buckley was right in saying:  "Brodie Grundy is not a forward and “never will be”.

He hasn't asserted anything, simply stating his opinion.

The club has come out and said we don't intend to make Grundy a forward but a ruck/fwd, ipso facto Buckley's opinion was correct.

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2 hours ago, layzie said:

The way Goodwin has handled this one has been quite exemplary. 

Agree. Never stumbled once and was forthright and unambiguous.

Ended the media speculation about Grundy being a permanent key forward once and for all.

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2 hours ago, Demonland said:

 

I posted this yesterday:

On 7/19/2023 at 9:19 AM, Lucifers Hero said:

Agreed.  Anyone would think we want him to be a KPF like Jeremy Cameron.

I'd say learning the 'forward craft' Richardson referred to is related to a specific role where he needs a few forward skills to compliment our other forwards and to not compete with them.   

So all this talk about Grundy not being a fwd is shallow thinking by the commentators.  Of course he isn't and won't be but he can play a role which may not be kicking heaps of goals.

Not sure what all the fuss (or Goodwin's word: hystereia) in the media and in this thread is all about as I thought the club's intentions were clear from the beginning. 

Had the media not gone all hysterical there was no need for the club to clarify its intentions.

Edited by Lucifers Hero
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So the consensus seems that Grundy plays and spends time predominantly as a forward.

So the real question is, whoa makes way for him?

Bbb was better than Jvr last week but didn't kill it. The Petty plan seems shelved for the season. I'm not sure we will see Smith get another crack fwd unless he comes in there via subway and does well. Pretty sure Tmac is finished. Even if he gets over his injury, time may beat him and his form prior wasn't great.

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Seems our tall forwards main roll is to provide a contest and not be out marked.
Bring the ball to ground for the smalls to .... Lock in 😐
So he should be able to do that.

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Goodwin can say what he likes but playing 2 x A Grade ruckmen is just silly. One takes away from the other. I still believe we should be looking down the path of a KPF (one who actually knows how to play forward) to chop out in the ruck (a mostly overrated position IMO). Our problem is forward connection, Grundy does not improve that, nor do I think he will.

It seems like Grundys main role is to bring the ball to ground and compete (probably sticking with the bombing it in). A half decent KPF will lead and knows their craft, which is most of the issue with our forward line. One only has to see all the flat footed players at times. I also have no faith in Stafford of all people, to teach a 29yo, forward craft in a week or two at VFL level - especially with a 14v14 practice match. Those who have played forward will know what I mean.

At the end of the day, the unspoken thing about all of this is that Grundy has actually done nothing wrong, his ruck work has been pretty good this year I reckon. It has been the FD's oversight and Max's own form in the forward 50 that has let him down. I'm pretty sure the original pitch was that Max would play predominantly forward. With spring approaching and dry September days, I hope the combination works wonders. At some point Max has to let go, I think he is struggling to do that, but we saw last Friday night that his value as sole ruck is priceless. Give me that approaching finals over trying to extend his career.

Also, some of the hysteria from supporters re the media is quite shocking. When you realise, everyone has an opinion and the media is there to generate conversation and traffic through websites it's like water off a ducks back. Everyone has an opinion, sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong, who really cares. Also, ex players, even champions of the game, have a lot more knowledge of things than any of us.

With the potential for BBB, TMAC not getting back to their best and the likelihood of Max and Brodie not working forward of centre, I do hope we are looking at a KPF to bring into our system to grow with JVR.

 

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I think Goodwin has created a bit of a strawman there. We are not comfortable with Max playing a third of the game forward (10mins each qtr as stated) because he struggles to play that role atm and impact games. 

Brodie, if he plays in 2023 in finals, will be forward or on the bench for at least 75% of the game. So what role do you call that? ‘We are not turning him into a forward, we are just teaching him forward craft.’

Great. But for this year, to play finals, he is a what first? Anyone? Anyone?

He is a forward first. Like JVR is, like TMac would be if they were back up. 

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10 minutes ago, Demonstone said:

Goodwin literally said he was looking for each ruckmen to go forward for ten minutes per quarter.

Quite right DS and Goodwin didn't even say "each".

"We see Brodie and Max playing 10 minutes a quarter forward of the ball."

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5 minutes ago, rpfc said:

I think Goodwin has created a bit of a strawman there. We are not comfortable with Max playing a third of the game forward (10mins each qtr as stated) because he struggles to play that role atm and impact games. 

Brodie, if he plays in 2023 in finals, will be forward or on the bench for at least 75% of the game. So what role do you call that? ‘We are not turning him into a forward, we are just teaching him forward craft.’

Great. But for this year, to play finals, he is a what first? Anyone? Anyone?

He is a forward first. Like JVR is, like TMac would be if they were back up. 

How do you calculate that 75% bench and forward for Grundy?

When together they have been sharing the ruck about  50:50 and Max has played more minutes forward because he has played 75% gametime vs Brodie's 65%. A total nett gametime of 140%.

If this nett gametime continues and Max increases to even 60% ruck and 15% forward, and Brodie decreases to 40% ruck and increases to 25% forward you're still way off 75%.

I reckon they'll each play between 15 and 25% forward and this move is to maximise Brodie's contribution in that role.

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27 minutes ago, old55 said:

How do you calculate that 75% bench and forward for Grundy?

When together they have been sharing the ruck about  50:50 and Max has played more minutes forward because he has played 75% gametime vs Brodie's 65%. A total nett gametime of 140%.

If this nett gametime continues and Max increases to even 60% ruck and 15% forward, and Brodie decreases to 40% ruck and increases to 25% forward you're still way off 75%.

I reckon they'll each play between 15 and 25% forward and this move is to maximise Brodie's contribution in that role.

Gawn just played a game indicative of his role and he played around 80-85% in the ruck didn’t he?

So where this number of 40 mins each game for Max to go forward would then set an expectation that we simply won’t meet. Gawn is not going to spend 33% of gametime forward. Especially not after these recent decisions to drop Grundy, and with his performance on Friday night. 

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7 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Gawn just played a game indicative of his role and he played around 80-85% in the ruck didn’t he?

So where this number of 40 mins each game for Max to go forward would then set an expectation that we simply won’t meet. Gawn is not going to spend 33% of gametime forward. Especially not after these recent decisions to drop Grundy, and with his performance on Friday night. 

The whole point is that Gawn can't sustain 80-85% ruck time.  That's why he drove the acquisition of Brodie Grundy and the Grundy's contribution so far this season enable Max to deliver against Brisbane.

Take another look at my numbers above:

If this nett gametime continues and Max increases to even 60% ruck and 15% forward, and Brodie decreases to 40% ruck and increases to 25% forward you're still way off your 75% forward and bench Grundy.

Edited by old55
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10 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Excuse me?

Look I get that you're a lifelong office bearer of the Consolidated Key Forwards Union and you see this as a demarcation dispute and a personal affront to your hard won skills.  Grundy is just going to play a bit more forward, a bit more effectively, that's the aim and it's reasonable.

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1 hour ago, Redleg said:

Agree. Never stumbled once and was forthright and unambiguous.

Ended the media speculation about Grundy being a permanent key forward once and for all.

Still up for grabs Mr Leg.

Don't leave your run too late!

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1 hour ago, old55 said:

Quite right DS and Goodwin didn't even say "each".

"We see Brodie and Max playing 10 minutes a quarter forward of the ball."

Fgs, what coaches say and do definitely don't always coincide. Not to mention that the team is evolving. It's a big deal he's not playing at all so one can't assume he's still going to spend time in the ruck and play fwd.  I'd wager Goody is definitely keeping his cards close as the club doesn't really know what to do at this point. I find it interesting that Goodwin has to take time out to assure everyone that Grundy WILL be playing finals. 

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