Season's not over yet. Well maybe for the Dockers ...

 

  On 20/07/2023 at 05:52, leave it to deever said:

Fgs, what coaches say and do definitely don't always coincide. Not to mention that the team is evolving. It's a big deal he's not playing at all so one can't assume he's still going to spend time in the ruck and play fwd.  I'd wager Goody is definitely keeping his cards close as the club doesn't really know what to do at this point. I find it interesting that Goodwin has to take time out to assure everyone that Grundy WILL be playing finals. 

He's done that because people like you are "reading into" it.

  On 20/07/2023 at 05:32, Demon Dynasty said:

Still up for grabs Mr Leg.

Don't leave your run too late!

I don’t follow.

What’s up for grabs?

I was complimenting Godwin’s presser.

  On 20/07/2023 at 06:02, old55 said:

He's done that because people like you are "reading into" it.you

Thanks oldandgrumpy55.😀

Edited July 20, 20231 yr by leave it to deever

  On 20/07/2023 at 04:28, SFebes said:

Goodwin can say what he likes but playing 2 x A Grade ruckmen is just silly. One takes away from the other. I still believe we should be looking down the path of a KPF (one who actually knows how to play forward) to chop out in the ruck (a mostly overrated position IMO). Our problem is forward connection, Grundy does not improve that, nor do I think he will.

It seems like Grundys main role is to bring the ball to ground and compete (probably sticking with the bombing it in). A half decent KPF will lead and knows their craft, which is most of the issue with our forward line. One only has to see all the flat footed players at times. I also have no faith in Stafford of all people, to teach a 29yo, forward craft in a week or two at VFL level - especially with a 14v14 practice match. Those who have played forward will know what I mean.

At the end of the day, the unspoken thing about all of this is that Grundy has actually done nothing wrong, his ruck work has been pretty good this year I reckon. It has been the FD's oversight and Max's own form in the forward 50 that has let him down. I'm pretty sure the original pitch was that Max would play predominantly forward. With spring approaching and dry September days, I hope the combination works wonders. At some point Max has to let go, I think he is struggling to do that, but we saw last Friday night that his value as sole ruck is priceless. Give me that approaching finals over trying to extend his career.

Also, some of the hysteria from supporters re the media is quite shocking. When you realise, everyone has an opinion and the media is there to generate conversation and traffic through websites it's like water off a ducks back. Everyone has an opinion, sometimes they're right, sometimes they're wrong, who really cares. Also, ex players, even champions of the game, have a lot more knowledge of things than any of us.

With the potential for BBB, TMAC not getting back to their best and the likelihood of Max and Brodie not working forward of centre, I do hope we are looking at a KPF to bring into our system to grow with JVR.

 

Yes the hysteria on here by our very own supporters is actually quiet bizarre. 

Amazing how some get so easily sucked in by people simply giving their opinions.

  On 20/07/2023 at 05:59, Demonland said:

Season's not over yet. Well maybe for the Dockers ...

 

The team on top literally play 2 rucks....

  On 20/07/2023 at 06:39, DistrACTION Jackson said:

The team on top literally play 2 rucks....

Guess how many rucks we played when we won the flag 2 years ago...

  On 20/07/2023 at 06:39, DistrACTION Jackson said:

The team on top literally play 2 rucks....

You mean Collingwood with Cox who has always been a forward? Or Port with Dixon who's always been a forward? Or Brisbane with Daniher who has always been a KPF?

 

  On 20/07/2023 at 06:42, Jaded No More said:

Guess how many rucks we played when we won the flag 2 years ago...

Ahhhh 2021..... What did Geelong do last year? Oh thats right, they had Hawkins....who also plays as a full time forward.

 

See the trend here? We need a KPF (who already knows the forward craft, unlike Grundy) who can then chop out in the ruck. We don't need two "A" grade ruckmen, who struggle forward. Anyway enough from me, I'm off overseas. Cheerio

Edited July 20, 20231 yr by SFebes

  On 20/07/2023 at 04:20, Demonstone said:

Goodwin literally said he was looking for each ruckmen to go forward for ten minutes per quarter.

So if we're working on 30 minute quarters (roughly) ....

Neither plays in the forward line for the other 10 minutes?

5 minutes each on the bench per quarter with the other 15 minutes each quarter as the ruckman?

That would make it about 83% game time for both players

Unless we drop one ruckman back periodically ... that might be needed in a tight finish.  One back, one forward

Grundy might be back in the seniors quicker than we thought if we want to get to work on that plan.  Or at least practice it

What's holding it back is that neither player has impacted forward (yet) so Grundy goes back to the 2's to practice forward craft for a bit

So if the above is true why the drama from the media and from the former players?  

We're just making a football move and it's nothing personal

  On 20/07/2023 at 07:11, Macca said:

So if the above is true why the drama from the media and from the former players?  

The idiots in the media need to create some drama and hysteria

  On 20/07/2023 at 07:37, drysdale demon said:

The idiots in the media need to create some drama and hysteria

I'm more surprised with the ex-players

They know how clubs operate and they know that sometimes a good player misses out

They also know that the good player will return sooner or later

  On 20/07/2023 at 05:24, old55 said:

Look I get that you're a lifelong office bearer of the Consolidated Key Forwards Union and you see this as a demarcation dispute and a personal affront to your hard won skills.  Grundy is just going to play a bit more forward, a bit more effectively, that's the aim and it's reasonable.

Ok then. I think that I have been quite measured with what this means for the FD, Max’s future, for 2024 and beyond, and for Brodie to have a future in the team this year. 

I have critiqued that the FD brought in someone with known forward deficiencies and have reversed course on which ruckman would play predominantly ruck.

I have maintained that Max would be best placed learning to be a ‘forward who rucks’ over time. 

I have said this year is this year and that 2024 could look different with the role we have for Grundy.

I have laid out the role and the base level craft Brodie would be taught by me if I had the job to get him functioning in this forward line in 2023.

I don’t think that any of that is histrionics and the thing that some struggle to get past is that I am happy to own the critique of the initial decision to recruit him if this is where we are at 17 games in, and also that we have been disjointed in our communications on this situation which doesn’t help the situation (forward craft, no VFL, predominantly forward, not making him a forward).

Also, I am in the ‘guys get dropped’ union too - so give me some credit.

Edited July 20, 20231 yr by rpfc

  On 20/07/2023 at 07:52, rpfc said:

Ok then. I think that I have been quite measured with what this means for the FD, Max’s future, for 2024 and beyond, and for Brodie to have a future in the team this year. 

I have critiqued that the FD brought in someone with known forward deficiencies and have reversed course on which ruckman would play predominantly ruck.

I have maintained that Max would be best placed learning to be a ‘forward who rucks’ over time. 

I have said this year is this year and that 2024 could look different with the role we have for Grundy.

I have laid out the role and the base level craft Brodie would be taught by me if I had the job to get him functioning in this forward line in 2023.

I don’t think that any of that is histrionics and the thing that some struggle to get past is that I am happy to own the critique of the initial decision to recruit him if this is where we are at 17 games in, and also that we have been disjointed in our communications on this situation which doesn’t help the situation (forward craft, no VFL, predominantly forward, not making him a forward).

Also, I am in the ‘guys get dropped’ union too - so give me some credit.

You've somehow come to the conclusion that miraculously Max is going to be able to sustain 75% ruck gametime week-in week-out from here on in and that Grundy is going to play the majority of his gametime forward.

You've further claimed that this has been poorly communicated by the club.

Guess why?  Because that's not what's happening and you, like others, seem unwilling to take Goodwin's clarification at face value.

Yes it's true that the Max forward experiment has not been as successful as hoped, but it's not being abandoned in favour of your model above. Grundy is going to play a bit more forward, a bit more effectively.

There wasn't a perfect solution when Jackson decided to leave, Max can't ruck 75% gametime anymore and we're in the flag window.  They had to conjure out of available opportunities and make adjustments as necessary on the fly.

We're far better placed now than if we took Lobb or McStay who were the only other alternative.

 

Edited July 20, 20231 yr by old55

  On 20/07/2023 at 07:40, Macca said:

I'm more surprised with the ex-players

They know how clubs operate and they know that sometimes a good player misses out

They also know that the good player will return sooner or later

Once they join the media bubble they are paid well to be as controversial as possible and urged to do so.

Edited July 20, 20231 yr by drysdale demon
less information.

  On 20/07/2023 at 08:18, old55 said:

You've somehow come to the conclusion that miraculously Max is going to be able to sustain 75% ruck gametime week-in week-out from here on in and that Grundy is going to play the majority of his gametime forward.

You've further claimed that this has been poorly communicated by the club.

Guess why?  Because that's not what's happening and you, like others, seem unwilling to take Goodwin's clarification at face value.

Yes it's true that the Max forward experiment has not been as successful a hoped, but it's not being abandoned in favour of your model above. Grundy is going to play a bit more forward, a bit more effectively.

There wasn't a perfect solution when Jackson decided to leave, Max can't ruck 75% gametime anymore and we're in the flag window.  They had to conjure out of available opportunities and make adjustments as necessary on the fly.

We're far better placed now than if we took Lobb or McStay who were the only other alternative.

 

I guess we will find out the splits that Gawn and Grundy play in time.

Im not to blame for the mixed messaging and splitting hairs by AR and SG.

I never wanted Lobb and McStay. The opportunity cost was ongoing TPP commitments. But that’s done until 2027 so we should make the most of Grundy now.

Think we’re done and I have refuted the ‘hysteria’ label enough for adjudication:

  On 20/07/2023 at 08:23, drysdale demon said:

Once they join the media bubble they are paid well to be as controversial as possible and urged to do so.

Generally, I tend to ignore the grandstanders in the media but the stuff said about Grundy and what might happen to him has been hysterical and way over the top

There hasn't been a voice of reason until Goodwin spoke ... and Goodwin probably didn't think he needed to explain the reasoning

So a player loses his spot to give the team a better chance of winning (and improving) ... and improve even more when said player returns.  A footy move

We've created a situation where Gawn has returned to his best straight away and we try out the Brown/JVR duo knowing that Grundy will almost certainly replace one of Brown or JVR sooner or later (IMV)

The red-herring will be a situation where both Brown & JVR both stand out and play very well over the next couple/few weeks

What are the chances?

Even if that happens, it's a great problem to have

It's all about the team so Grundy has to sit out for a bit

  On 20/07/2023 at 06:29, Redleg said:

I don’t follow.

What’s up for grabs?

I was complimenting Godwin’s presser.

Don't be so modest Red....

 

Macca    14,161

Posted 21 hours ago

  On 19/07/2023 at 10:56, Redleg said:

  23 hours ago, Redleg said:

More chance of me playing for the Dees this week than that happening:

HF   Melksham  Redleg  Kozzie

(we're in need of a CHF)

  On 20/07/2023 at 10:04, Demon Dynasty said:

Don't be so modest Red....

 

Macca    14,161

Posted 21 hours ago

  On 19/07/2023 at 10:56, Redleg said:

  23 hours ago, Redleg said:

More chance of me playing for the Dees this week than that happening:

HF   Melksham  Redleg  Kozzie

(we're in need of a CHF)

Now I understand.

Bloody Grundy is named and could be after my spot.

Seems obvious we have two styles of play.

A) Slow, long down the line, bomb into fwd 50 pockets to create a stoppage. Trap it in, high time in fwd half %, control the tempo = 2 rucks on ground, 1 resting fwd, scoring from stoppage

B) fast, counter attack through the corridor off intercept marks/turnover or created from overlap runs. = 1 ruck on the ground, 1 on the bench, scores from turnover.

My guess is the FD think we need a mixture of A and B to take out the prize. Perhaps they feel B isnt sustainable for 4 quarters. Collingwood are only doing B and bombed out in finals dont forget.

Brodie will be in our best 22 come finals.

  On 20/07/2023 at 01:59, Demonland said:

I agree but I still think we should have come out on the front foot with this messaging.

Managing or Omitting Grundy for whatever reasons be they to hone his forward craft for Goody's reasons above or even manage any soreness was always going to create media hysteria. We should have been ready for that.

I think his omission was leaked due to Tom Morris' involvement in the "breaking" of this story. We need to look at plugging this hole because we've been good in this area (not leaking) over the last few years.

In addition we needed to be ahead of this story so we could have at least put our narrative out there. Yes the media will always be the media and put their own spin on it but when you're on the back foot you always look like your hiding something. Probably not the case here but when the media gets to frame the narrative it spreads like wildfire.

We didn’t trade him, we’re still experimenting. If we didn’t the press would say we don’t. We do and they say Grundy is leaving. You can’t actually get ahead of a media intent on making news where there is none. 

  On 20/07/2023 at 05:59, Demonland said:

Season's not over yet. Well maybe for the Dockers ...

 

So he says you don’t need them and then quotes the Pies as the stellar example…..who just happen to play 2 rucks as Geelong did last year with Biklavs and Stanley. Fair dinkum he’s an absolute peanut

I mean the reason we have Gawn, who led us to victory with a game for the ages, fit, fresh and firing is because we have Grundy. Grundy’s done his job and if he can add a goal and a half a game he’ll be worth every cent.

  On 20/07/2023 at 07:09, SFebes said:

You mean Collingwood with Cox who has always been a forward? Or Port with Dixon who's always been a forward? Or Brisbane with Daniher who has always been a KPF?

 

Ahhhh 2021..... What did Geelong do last year? Oh thats right, they had Hawkins....who also plays as a full time forward.

 

See the trend here? We need a KPF (who already knows the forward craft, unlike Grundy) who can then chop out in the ruck. We don't need two "A" grade ruckmen, who struggle forward. Anyway enough from me, I'm off overseas. Cheerio

Yeah I hear you, we need someone who can offer us something up forward. Pretty much what it comes down to, whether it's a stud KPF who can ruck or a ruck who looks at home when they go forward. 2 'out and out' ruckmen can have its issues. Hopefully we can find the solution we need.

Have a good trip Febes!