It would be a shame not to have Bedford and Chandler on the list next year. I'd love for them to get some decent game time if only to drive up their trade value. We'd get unders for them if traded this year. Think they both might end up being impact players...

46 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Not sure where to put this and its not really worth of a new thread

revealed-north-s-draft-assistance-package

Fairly minimal really.  An extra 2nd and extra 3rd round, 2023 pick that must be used to trade this year for player(s).  What that does is fill out their draft picks this year which are:  1, 55, 66, 73.  And 2 extra rookie spots.

It is pleasing the AFL didn't give them a bunch of first round/end of first round picks since most of their recent pain was pretty much self inflicted by decimating their own list and FD staff.

That might have knock on effects for the Jackson trade as I imagine Freo would of be hoping North had a better hand to trade for Logue and perhaps Turner. 
They are probably more likely to split pick 1 now. 

4 minutes ago, Colm said:

That might have knock on effects for the Jackson trade as I imagine Freo would of be hoping North had a better hand to trade for Logue and perhaps Turner. 
They are probably more likely to split pick 1 now. 

 I suspect Turner is meant to be Taberner.

Yeah, I suspect Freo were hoping for an end of 1st round pick for North to go through to them.

The future picks North get are likely to be in the 19-22 and mid-late 30's.  Freo would certainly have their eye on at last the first if not both.

Not sure what it means for North's pick 1.

Edited September 19, 20222 yr by Lucifers Hero

Sorry I meant Tucker who I believe North have also been linked too. 

56 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

These guys already complement our star players by bringing pressure, speed and work rate. I’d love for them to be more skilled too but super skilled role players are very hard to find. Whilst our game plan is built around Clarry, Tracc and Viney we aren’t going to line up with super skilled fringe mids and half forwards anyway, we can’t lose our 1 wood which is crash and bash.

Jason Taylor has an awful record outside the top 2 rounds of the draft and Tim Lamb’s favours conservative list management holding on to fringe players for way too long. It’s hard to see how shipping out our role players for at best late 2nds or 3rd rounds Ie. not much coming back in helps. 

If we had replacements at Casey or if we were linked to someone like Amon, perhaps Bobby Hill, Acres etc to swap in for the right guy out I’d be for that.

I guess there’s still time for more players to declare their intentions but so far it’s all very quiet

Another DS motherhood statement. Thank goodness JT and Lamby have nailed the top two rounds picks in the last 5 years. DS would by now would have declared them as illegal  citizens and shipped off in disgrace to Port Arthur or Shanghai or it's modern equilivent Wuhan

The fact is the Famous Five DS has listed were 12 mths ago the goldest role players in our history and untouchable in Club folklore. 2022 was a lesser year for many on our list and not changing at selection has taken the shine off their glitter.

Really we can count on hand the few that actually improved in 2022 and it became so obvious that Goody  wanted to replay 2021 all over again. That and injury and  IMHO only 80% recovery for some players also hurt us in our 3rd and 4th terms fade outs. 

About  FIVE/SIX new players are needed in 2023 to replenish some positions but all our players have the chance to stay relevant with good pre seasons and 100.% recovery from injury if they survive the cuts. 

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Jason Taylor has an awful record outside the top 2 rounds of the draft

This whole thread is premised on the fact that lower draft picks are less likely to become decent players, a likelihood that really drops away after the second round.

https://www.draftguru.com.au/analysis/pick-value-comparison

 

4 hours ago, wheaters31 said:

Time to go and get Deven Robertson.

We loved him in his draft year. He is apparently unhappy with lack of games at Brisbane and with Dunkley and Ashcroft coming in, that means he potentially has even less game-time now.

Brisbane will need picks to satisfy the Dogs and to get Ashcroft as F/S.

I hope we ask the question. He would be an upgrade on Harmes, Jordon, Sparrow or ANB at the least.

Sorry I have watched Robbo for his 2/3/4 years at the Lions and if you parcel up our 5 players he is lucky to have enough skill as the best in each of the 5.

He is  not quick ( we lack some outside pace still ) not a good ball handler) not a great goal kicker really and his best role may be as a tagger but Harmesy has him covered there.  Only plus is his age and he MAY improve I suppose. But NO from me. 

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Jason Taylor has an awful record outside the top 2 rounds of the draft 

 

Blake Howes and Taj Woewodin  2021        Yet to debut.

2018    Nietsche, Hore,  Bedford, Chandler

2017   Petty, Baker

Had no 3rd round picks in 2019 and 2020

Wouldn't call it awful. What is the success rate for 3rd and later rounds AFL wide?

 

4 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

 

Interesting that unlike Cerra last year, Dunkley and his management seem unperturbed that Brisbane will struggle to get this done with their 2 F/S.

They'll possibly need to go into deficit to get them done if Collingwood don't way overpay McStay and they don't qualify for an end of 1st round compensation.

Future 1st could get Dunkley done I suppose and the F/S draft comes after the trade so then any deficit would apply to their future 2nd.  They'd end up with no 2023 draft capital but maybe that's fine with 3 very good players coming in.

8 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Blake Howes and Taj Woewodin  2021        Yet to debut.

2018    Nietsche, Hore,  Bedford, Chandler

2017   Petty, Baker

Had no 3rd round picks in 2019 and 2020

Wouldn't call it awful. What is the success rate for 3rd and later rounds AFL wide?

 

Doesn't matter Red - Petty makes it a winner whatever.

19 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Blake Howes and Taj Woewodin  2021        Yet to debut.

2018    Nietsche, Hore,  Bedford, Chandler

2017   Petty, Baker

Had no 3rd round picks in 2019 and 2020

Wouldn't call it awful. What is the success rate for 3rd and later rounds AFL wide?

 

I don't think the poster will let facts get in the way of claiming their opinion is fact.

How many recruiters nail everything from the 3rd round onwards?

16 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

Well Spargo had a very ordinary year, so there is a spot there. How long can they persist with Spargo it's been a year. He's a must keep for mine his pace is something we lack. The player that must get a game has been knocking heavily on the door in the last half of the year is Chandler superb in the Grand Final and his last half of the year was just as good. If Melbourne are serious Spargo has to start at Casey and earn his spot again.

Chandler needs to be rewarded. I think he can challenge anyone of ANB, Spargo or Kozzy. Worst case, it keeps them honest but it’s pointless if they don’t get dropped for bad performances or even given a spell. 

2023 Forward line:

HF: Chandler Pickett Bedford
FF:  Jacob       van      Rooyen

INT: Fritsch

😍

Edited September 19, 20222 yr by adonski

34 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

These guys already complement our star players by bringing pressure, speed and work rate. I’d love for them to be more skilled too but super skilled role players are very hard to find. Whilst our game plan is built around Clarry, Tracc and Viney we aren’t going to line up with super skilled fringe mids and half forwards anyway, we can’t lose our 1 wood which is crash and bash.

Jason Taylor has an awful record outside the top 2 rounds of the draft and Tim Lamb’s favours conservative list management holding on to fringe players for way too long. It’s hard to see how shipping out our role players for at best late 2nds or 3rd rounds Ie. not much coming back in helps. 

If we had replacements at Casey or if we were linked to someone like Amon, perhaps Bobby Hill, Acres etc to swap in for the right guy out I’d be for that.

I guess there’s still time for more players to declare their intentions but so far it’s all very quiet

If you think Jason Taylor has a poor track record beyond the first two rounds, you'll also think Stephen Wells, the other recruitment guru from Geelong, is a complete failure. Since 2013 Wells has had 24 picks after round 2 of which only 7 have managed to play a senior game. There are 2 standouts in that group, Menegola and Kolodjashnij. Taylor on the other hand has had only 14 picks of which 8 have played a senior game. Notables are Hunt, OMac, Hannan and Stretch. After the second round, chances of a player good enough to play even one  senior game is very low.

 

37 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Blake Howes and Taj Woewodin  2021        Yet to debut.

2018    Nietsche, Hore,  Bedford, Chandler

2017   Petty, Baker

Had no 3rd round picks in 2019 and 2020

Wouldn't call it awful. What is the success rate for 3rd and later rounds AFL wide?

 

Petty and Howes were both the last picks of the 2nd round. Taylor has had Harmes (13), Vanders (14) and perhaps Hannan (16).

From 2017 onwards including preseason and mideason picks ups so far he’s gone 0 from 15 up until the Turner pick which has promise. 

I’m not expecting miracles, but in the same time frame Collingwood added McCreery, Ginnibin and Ash Johnson to completely rejuvenate their forward line. 
 

Geelong have picked up Close, Miers, Henry, Atkins, Zuthrie and Stengle. That’s over a quarter of their side! That’s how you stay at the top for so long. 

23 minutes ago, CYB said:

Chandler needs to be rewarded. I think he can challenge anyone of ANB, Spargo or Kozzy. Worst case, it keeps them honest but it’s pointless if they don’t get dropped for bad performances or even given a spell. 

Not Kossie standard but best of the ones who have not been tried. 

10 minutes ago, djr said:

If you think Jason Taylor has a poor track record beyond the first two rounds, you'll also think Stephen Wells, the other recruitment guru from Geelong, is a complete failure. Since 2013 Wells has had 24 picks after round 2 of which only 7 have managed to play a senior game. There are 2 standouts in that group, Menegola and Kolodjashnij. Taylor on the other hand has had only 14 picks of which 8 have played a senior game. Notables are Hunt, OMac, Hannan and Stretch. After the second round, chances of a player good enough to play even one  senior game is very low.

 

When Oscar is in the notables you know you’re struggling.

To quote myself: Geelong have picked up Close, Miers, Henry, Atkins, Zuthrie and Stengle. That’s over a quarter of their side! That’s how you stay at the top for so long. 

Jason Taylor’s done a heck of a job with the first 2 rounds. Recruited us a premiership 22. But you, me or a drawing names from a hat could’ve done just as well in the later rounds.

3 minutes ago, 58er said:

Not Kossie standard but best of the ones who have not been tried. 

I think a shuffle of our small/half forwards is required. Chandler is one of our better defensive forwards but clearly doesn’t have the forward craft that Kozzy offers. Spargs is a better decision maker but doesn’t offer as much in defensive pressure, speed or direct score impact. 
ANB has endurance and leadership but not much else. 

16 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

When Oscar is in the notables you know you’re struggling.

To quote myself: Geelong have picked up Close, Miers, Henry, Atkins, Zuthrie and Stengle. That’s over a quarter of their side! That’s how you stay at the top for so long. 

Jason Taylor’s done a heck of a job with the first 2 rounds. Recruited us a premiership 22. But you, me or a drawing names from a hat could’ve done just as well in the later rounds.

They are stay at the top because of their top end not because of the players you mentioned 

42 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Petty and Howes were both the last picks of the 2nd round. Taylor has had Harmes (13), Vanders (14) and perhaps Hannan (16).

From 2017 onwards including preseason and mideason picks ups so far he’s gone 0 from 15 up until the Turner pick which has promise.

 

Hunt was in the 50's somewhere. 

Re the bolded sentence, how many picks has Taylor used since 2017 over pick 40 and which ones have been a fail?  

For the purpose of the exercise leave out the preseason and mid year drafts as they are for Rookies which are generally for short term needs.. 

Edited September 19, 20222 yr by Lucifers Hero

40 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Petty and Howes were both the last picks of the 2nd round. Taylor has had Harmes (13), Vanders (14) and perhaps Hannan (16).

From 2017 onwards including preseason and mideason picks ups so far he’s gone 0 from 15 up until the Turner pick which has promise. 

I’m not expecting miracles, but in the same time frame Collingwood added McCreery, Ginnibin and Ash Johnson to completely rejuvenate their forward line. 
 

Geelong have picked up Close, Miers, Henry, Atkins, Zuthrie and Stengle. That’s over a quarter of their side! That’s how you stay at the top for so long. 

It has probably been noted already, but only Atkins, Mier and Close were picks from 2017 onwards by Geelong and of those 3, Atkins and Mier were local boys.

Edited September 19, 20222 yr by Bimbo
word left out

5 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

They are stay at the top because of their top end not because of the players you mentioned 

Disagree D 11

These players of Geelong are the greatly improved ones that are much better than the slow and marginally skilled Dalhsus for example.

Menogola is a good player but on a wing ?

They all have pace and the ability to run and keep the ball in motion. 

That's the new Chris Scott mantra after a decade of slow but steady ball movement. 

Each one of these  new players are sharing 1,2 or 3 on grounds each round .

We must move on our flankers etc snd 4 and 5 on ballers and get better and  more skilled role players and ideal match winners say like Kossie and Lingers. 

The Spargs ANB and Sparrow/( Harmes ? Not sure really) are on notice. We need Howes Chandler Bedford snd AMZ  to find their legs in 2023. Oh and Bowser in the team snd a fit Salem and Rivers. 

Just now, Demons11 said:

They are stay at the top because of their top end not because of the players you mentioned 

Disagree. Stewart is awesome, and Cameron’s had a fantastic year. But Selwood and Danger flash in and out and Hawkins is excellent but only at one thing - plonking himself 30 out from goal and winning a one on one. Takes a lot of system around him.

Guthrie, Blicavs and Atkins have been the consistent driving forces of their midfield this year. Their small forwards have been excellent. And whilst Stewart (pick 40 btw) is the key to their backline they’re no name guys all do the job.

Its all irrelevant though. I’m not looking for stars. We’re looking to upgrade or create more competition for our bottom 6 

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

Petty and Howes were both the last picks of the 2nd round. Taylor has had Harmes (13), Vanders (14) and perhaps Hannan (16).

From 2017 onwards including preseason and mideason picks ups so far he’s gone 0 from 15 up until the Turner pick which has promise. 

 

 

37 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

Hunt was in the 50's somewhere. 

Re the bolded sentence, how many picks has Taylor used since 2017 over pick 40 and which ones have been a fail?  

For the purpose of the exercise leave out the preseason and mid year drafts as they are for Rookies which are generally for short term needs.. 

I'll answer the question for you.  Picks over #40 since 2017:

• 2017: Oska Baker (pick 48, 3rd round) - still on our list
• 2018:  Aaron Nietschke (pick 53, 3rd round) - retired due to 3 ACL's
• 2018:  Marty Hore (pick 56, 4th round) - played a valuable role in 2019 when we had a big injury list.  Had an ACL injury and retired.
• 2018:  Toby Bedfored (pick 75, 5th round) - still on our list and seemingly in demand by other clubs
• 2019:  Zero selections.  Highest pick #32:  Trent Rivers.  Premiership player
• 2020:  Zero selections.  Highest pick #35:  Fraser Rosman, taken as a 'project player' and still on our list.
• 2021:  Zero selections.  Late pick used for Taj Woewodin taken as F/S  - still on the list.

I'm not sure what your definition of 'fail' is but I don't see any on that list.

Look carefully and you will see that for the last 3 years JT has, I think deliberately, not used a pick over #35 preferring to trade later picks up or trade them out for future picks. 

I really don't know what you are on about criticising JT for his later round selections!

Drafting from rounds 1 and 2 and cash in the rest looks a damn good policy to me.

Edited September 19, 20222 yr by Lucifers Hero