We've had all kind of bumps and niggles this year that weren't such an issue last year. Would be very much hoping to smooth them out by August.

Throw in the couple of weeks of missed pre-season due to playing all the finals, it all fits with a picture.

Also, an intercept mark in defence and a nice clean rebound takes a lot more energy to deal with. That equation has been reversed these last three weeks; instead of making our opponents scramble back to cover the long smart kicks of May & Lever etc, we are having to rush to deal with rebounds up the middle because our opponents are getting a ridiculous number of easy intercept marks.

Also, opposition has figured out the way to attack us is going for broke up the middle, which, relies very much on getting a fast, clean rebound 50.

In short, I think we are a little less fit than last season but the true issue is still that we aren't getting proper contests at the ball when we are attacking.

 

 

 

There's really no way I can answer this going purely off optics. The easy answer would be to say no but then you've got the small issue of loading to deal with. 

I'm sure training regimens are similar to last season, I mean why would you change a winning formula? Maybe we were able to carry through this period last year because the system and structure with most of our personnel got us there? This time round, every key player out has a multiplier affect possibly?

It’s a good question, I just have no idea how to answer it.
 

We are micro scrutinised by other teams at the moment

Heavy tags on Langdon, Petracca, Kosi and Bowey/Salem

Our pathetic F50 entries are easily defended

Rivers and Swallow have come back very flat

Big loss of TMac - why would anyone play Mitch Brown???

39 minutes ago, layzie said:

There's really no way I can answer this going purely off optics. The easy answer would be to say no but then you've got the small issue of loading to deal with. 

I'm sure training regimens are similar to last season, I mean why would you change a winning formula? Maybe we were able to carry through this period last year because the system and structure with most of our personnel got us there? This time round, every key player out has a multiplier affect possibly?

It’s a good question, I just have no idea how to answer it.
 

We were even more dissapointing on QB last year than yesterday and went 4W-1D-4L round 10-19, so by what measure did we "carry through this period last year"?

Not fit enough, carrying injuries/illness, or not working hard enough? I suspect all are applicable to certain individuals.

I'd be interested to know how much ground Langdon has covered in the past fortnight compared with the first 9 rounds. Petracca the first 10 weeks vs the last three. Sparrow, Jackson and Pickett before and after their Covid break. It seems that being able to do the work required by this game plan is dependant on being at or near 100% fitness.

 

They look mentally tired. If you look at the past few weeks we have faded badly where as before find a way to win even  if playing poorly.

23 minutes ago, Vipercrunch said:

We were even more dissapointing on QB last year than yesterday and went 4W-1D-4L round 10-19, so by what measure did we "carry through this period last year"?

I'd be pretty keen to hear how you managed to measure the level of disappointment between the two extremely similar losses margin wise and performance wise. 

By carry through I mean get results in games that could have gone either way or statement games eg. Essendon, Sydney, Port etc. We didn't go 4W-1D-4L either, we went 1L-2W-1L-1W-1L-1W-1D-1L. Much more consistent and less falling off of a cliff performance wise and the point I'm making is maybe the damage was limited due to having less injuries. Would you not agree we are missing key personnel at the moment? 

Edited June 14, 20223 yr by layzie

2 minutes ago, layzie said:

I'd be pretty keen to hear how you managed to measure the level of disappointment between the two extremely similar losses margin wise and performance wise. 

By carry through I mean get results in games that could have gone either way or statement games eg. Essendon, Sydney, Port etc. We didn't go 4W-1D-4L either, we went 1L-2W-1L-1W-1L-1W-1D-1L. Much more consistent and less falling off of a cliff performance wise and the point I'm making is maybe the damage was limited due to having less injuries. Would you not agree we are missing key personnel at the moment? 

I think there is a mental component to it as well. last year we were hungry and keen to prove ourselves, this year i think we kinda know our best is the best and i am sure there are some individuals who are battling with maybe looking ahead a little bit too much. 

I reckon it's important to remember that none of these players have been in this situation before, being reigning premiers and looking like a fair chance to go back to back, it would be incredibly challenging to stay in the moment i reckon. 

So i think where we are is due to a whole lot of factors, but gotta hope that the form turns around fairly quickly so we can lock up that top 2 spot and get some more silverware. 

3 minutes ago, layzie said:

I'd be pretty keen to hear how you managed to measure the level of disappointment between the two extremely similar losses margin wise and performance wise. 

By carry through I mean get results in games that could have gone either way or statement games eg. Essendon, Sydney, Port etc. We didn't go 4W-1D-4L either, we went 1L-2W-1L-1W-1L-1W-1D-1L. Much more consistent and less falling off of a cliff performance wise and the point I'm making is maybe the damage was limited due to having less injuries. Would you not agree we are missing key personnel at the moment? 

Collingwood are a much better team this year than last, and this year we were missing May, TMac and had others that were banged up or returning from injury.  So imo, last year was more dissappointing.

Our cumlative outcome from those rounds was 4W-1D-4L, so we were a 50:50 team that put in some very poor performances.  Injuries have had an impact but in no way explains the lack of run we have had by fit players, run which is key to executong our gameplan.  We had a shorter preseason this time round, which is why I am even more certain that we are exploiting our 10-0 start to the season to get as fit as possible now for the run home to the finals.  I fully expect to be clearly struggling with fatigue for 4 or 5 games after the bye also.

I also think "statement" games were far more important last year to get the players to believe in the game plan, and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest that we primed the team for the mid season games against the Bulldogs and Brisbane.  It is far less important this year with the belief that is there after winning the premiership last year, meaning we were ok to risk losing games against other contenders with the bigger prize in mind.

 

We obviously don't have the data that the clubs have, but the AFL app is pretty good for looking at patterns with the stats and trackers on there.

 

Things we have been renowned for the last year or so:

- team defence

- run and spread

- pressure

- strong second halves

 

We are waaaay down on those the last month or so, e.g. our average team km/hr when opposition has the ball (team defence) is generally 8.5-9.0km/hr when firing.  The last month... down into the low-mid 7km/hr.  Our run and spread is down, our pressure acts are down, our second halves are down.

 

All of the above pointers are not dependent on the opposition... they're dependent on us and our effort. You don't just simply forget how to play hard-running, team defence, with rabid pressure in the space of a month or two... but it can be bloody difficult if the body isn't willing. I genuinely believe we're in our heavy training phase as has been discussed in the other thread, and as a result our boys are running around in lead boots at the moment.  The gameplan suffers as a result too.  Same happened to us last year, but we were firing when it was needed.  

Edited June 14, 20223 yr by mfcrox

You look fit when you win, you look unfit when you lose. 

Ive noticed that last 3 weeks, we have gone into the shell a bit , move the ball slow, it adds to the look of being unfit. Confidence levels increase, ball movement gets better, all of a sudden we dont look as unfit.

Just need to ride out this storm, form will return, then wins will happen. 

So So, why wouldn't The current fitness guy Selwyn just replicate EXACTLY the same program as last year?

And if he is .... What's gone wrong? 

If he is not... serious questions need to be asked!

48 minutes ago, Vipercrunch said:

Collingwood are a much better team this year than last, and this year we were missing May, TMac and had others that were banged up or returning from injury.  So imo, last year was more dissappointing.

Our cumlative outcome from those rounds was 4W-1D-4L, so we were a 50:50 team that put in some very poor performances.  Injuries have had an impact but in no way explains the lack of run we have had by fit players, run which is key to executong our gameplan.  We had a shorter preseason this time round, which is why I am even more certain that we are exploiting our 10-0 start to the season to get as fit as possible now for the run home to the finals.  I fully expect to be clearly struggling with fatigue for 4 or 5 games after the bye also.

I also think "statement" games were far more important last year to get the players to believe in the game plan, and it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest that we primed the team for the mid season games against the Bulldogs and Brisbane.  It is far less important this year with the belief that is there after winning the premiership last year, meaning we were ok to risk losing games against other contenders with the bigger prize in mind.

 

Very well said. I'm glad we had this discussion and appreciate this response. 

Just on the shorter preseason I’ve seen mentioned a few times as a possible reason for this lull, I believe the club was happy with the way the players returned after the flag. I could be mistaken, but I think it was Yze a couple of months ago on the podcast that said the club was happy the players kept up the body of work after the premiership and the fact they weren’t too long away from the club after the flag was a good thing.

Plus weren’t some of our players doing their own training 20 days after the premiership? 
And to answer the question I’m leaning more to us being a little more banged this season physically than overall fitness….although the last quarters beg to differ lately.

25 minutes ago, picket fence said:

So So, why wouldn't The current fitness guy Selwyn just replicate EXACTLY the same program as last year?

And if he is .... What's gone wrong? 

If he is not... serious questions need to be asked!

You don't see the similarities to this time last year?  Perhaps you should go and watch last years QB game to remind you.

Interestingly enough going back through the last 4 premiers excluding 2020 due to it being a strange season each of the eventual premier had a major form slump (perhaps from training loads) between may and July.

In 2017 the tigers lost 4 in a row from the end of April to the end of may. 

In 2018 the Eagles lost 3 in a row in June.

In 2019 the tigers lost 3 in a row in may/June.

Us last year went 1-2 around the same time. 

 

There's fitness ... but there's also freshness.

If you're fatigued or banged up, or even coming back from being banged up (Salem, Langdon etc.), it doesn't matter how fit you are, you won't be able to fully exploit it.

There's no reason to believe we aren't as fit as last year (see ANB in post-match interview).