The Road Back to Success -June 2022

[spirit of norm smith 16,166]

3 hours ago, Jontee said:

Recruit some tall players

Be patient. JVR is one who will be a player.  

[bluey 1,084]

Too much fumbling and ring a ring a rosy in close, over handling and over possessing the ball.

Gives the defenders time to get back and clog our forward line.

Also causes the harried kick making it easy for Moore and the sunglasses guy to pick the ball off.

Not to mention the Brown boys who couldn’t bruise a grape.

[dee-tox 4,835]

1. Get Petracca back in form. He is our X-factor and when he fires we normally do too.

2. Starting owning the corridor again. Take the game on when we have it with quick, efficient ball movement. Clog up the opposition's use of corridor by forcing so many turnovers they will never want to go through there! :)  

3. Move Gus back to the wing or move Salem. We don't need two quarterbacks. Would rather Brayshaw playing a role in the midfield. to support Clarry, Trac, Viney, etc

4. Fix Lever's foot and Petty's calf (?). 

5. Find a way to combat Langdon tag. He's our prime mover and so much of our ball movement relies on him.

6. Threaten to delist ANB again. He is no where near as effective as last year and maybe too comfortable!

7. Get our pressure up to at least a reasonable level! ie, not 17th!

8. Keep swapping our small defenders (Bowey, Hunt, Rivers, Hibberd) around until one of them finds some decent form!

9. Kidnap Darren Burgess.

10. Learn to kick a torpedo. At least that way if you are going to bomb it into the forward line is makes it much harder for defenders to read!

[Fritta and Turner 4,286]

10 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Be patient. JVR is one who will be a player.  

I was patient for 57 years....

JVR may well be a player but he is only 193 cm.  Petty comes in at 197 but I would not have picked it.

195-200cm is what we need to look for.

[Red and Blue realist 2,051]

Were entering round 14 - and at worst will finish this round in 2nd place on the ladder. To put it into context, last year we were sitting in 1st place; in 2020 (a Covid shortened season) the Tigs were sitting in 4th; in 2019 the Tigs were in 9th (yes 9th!); in 2018 WC were in 3rd; 2017 the Tigs were 6th; and in 2016 the Dogs were 7th.

So from the last 6 years (I couldn't be bothered going back any further) only 1 team - and that was us!!!! has been on top of the ladder and their game in June. You don't win premierships in June. The road to success comes from not panicking - too many want to throw the whole team around or implement new systems.  

[DeeZone 9,535]

55 minutes ago, Jontee said:

I was patient for 57 years....

JVR may well be a player but he is only 193 cm.  Petty comes in at 197 but I would not have picked it.

195-200cm is what we need to look for.

Agree Jontee we have neglected young talls in the last couple of drafts and hung onto a couple of older talls that are not stepping up when we need them. A couple of the young talls from Casey are playing better footy than Daw and Brown. We need another 198 and a 204cm player on the list, they are out there.

 Ps( very confident that JVR will be a vg player but not tall enough for ruck duties).

Edited June 15, 2022 by DeeZone
Added JVR comment

[Harrison Petty GOAT 44]

I saw some stat that said last year we were no.1 in pressure, and now we are 17th in pressure. Dunno if its gameplan or Burgo leaving, but if you as ask me, I imagine if we improve the pressure we would see a difference in the way we play.

[Red and Blue realist 2,051]

Just now, Harrison Petty GOAT said:

I saw some stat that said last year we were no.1 in pressure, and now we are 17th in pressure. Dunno if its gameplan or Burgo leaving, but if you as ask me, I imagine if we improve the pressure we would see a difference in the way we play.

I think teams are playing us very differently which would account for some of the lowering of pressure. I would be guessing that if there was a stat for implied pressure we'd be no.1 by a long way. Teams seem to have be kicking shorter from their backline not wanting to give it straight to May, Lever, Petty or Max, so the long kick to a contest takes longer than against other teams. That in general makes it harder to create pressure - but I wouldn't think that'll hold up in a finals game, Geelong are probably proof of this.  

[Deemania since 56 6,605]

On 6/14/2022 at 11:01 AM, JimmyGadson said:

An issue for years has been connection from mid to forward. 

Even when when we connect, it's only ever for parts of games. 

I genuinely believe we need another mid who is primarily a ball user as well as a genuine contested marking forward. 

If that means we need to let go of a player/players then we should look at that. 

Every year the game shifts and every year teams evolve. What worked one year won't necessarily work the next and we've all seen Godwin's stubborness over the years. 

When you hear for three weeks in a row that our connection isn't there then either one of two things is happening. 1. Goodwin continues to instruct our players to chaotically kick inside 50. And when on slow plays to kick into deep pockets regardless of opposition talls being stacked back there. 

Or 2 - We possess too many mids who don't use the ball well enough. (I believe this one). 

Petracca, Harmes, Viney, Oliver, Jordan and Sparrow. All of them are average kicks. Even Petracca who can hit targets that nobody else can is too wildly inconsistent to be considered a great ball user. 

Either Goodwin makes some position changes for the second half of the year or instructs us to enter inside 50 a different way. 

Nothing has changed in three weeks in this regard and it's concerning. 

The key for us is to demonstrate adaptability in our game plans and strategies - surely we have had adequate insights into what is going wrong in the application of our now 'mundane' game intents.

The variations that are now required against oppositions who have analysed and exploited our weaker points are clear, and have been addressed by Demonlanders (above) quite well. It is again up to the coaching staff to re-ignite the team, man by man, to add variance to set plays, set connections, set team back-ups where we truly can be seen to play for one another.

Pressure means that we rush. Such rush is not pace, it is last-resort efforts - often ineffective.

The only way to address pressure on the footy field is to apply greater pressure on the opposition, more frequently, more collaboratively and more sustainably. These are the three things that have knocked us rotten in several games this year. Surely, it is our turn to fight back?

Edited June 16, 2022 by Deemania since 56

[spirit of norm smith 16,166]

Interesting to read on AFL website that we are 16th for pressure factor in 2022.  It seems about right.  We do often look to be waiting for the opposition to make an error and turnover.  We “lay off” the player and play a zone. Sure it works if the opposition have skill errors and don’t hit the target.  But if the run and do hit the target , then they have players free.  Seemed to explain how and why Freo and Collingwood ran so freely and overwhelmed us. 

[old dee 23,682]

On 6/14/2022 at 2:53 PM, Ham said:

It has always seemed baffling that Salem hasn't been tried on the Wing/Midfield. He's our best ball user by foot.

Easily, in fact he is a long way in front the others. 

[one_demon 826]

On 6/16/2022 at 9:00 AM, Jontee said:

JVR may well be a player but he is only 193 cm.  Petty comes in at 197 but I would not have picked it.

Four centimetres? That's going to make a difference?

[Deemania since 56 6,605]

3 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Interesting to read on AFL website that we are 16th for pressure factor in 2022.  It seems about right.  We do often look to be waiting for the opposition to make an error and turnover.  We “lay off” the player and play a zone. Sure it works if the opposition have skill errors and don’t hit the target.  But if the run and do hit the target , then they have players free.  Seemed to explain how and why Freo and Collingwood ran so freely and overwhelmed us. 

Agree with this observation. It almost appears to be irresponsible, at times.

[Little Goffy 14,398]

The ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the...

Stooping there, I'm dizzy.

[loges 6,767]

11 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

The ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the...

Stooping there, I'm dizzy.

And out of breath.

[Redleg 40,773]

22 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

The ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the...

Stooping there, I'm dizzy.

Wow, what a sentence.

[Lucifers Hero 39,320]

45 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

The ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the...

Stooping there, I'm dizzy.

This looks like what @hemingwaywould write a few years ago.  Altho he would on some, not to often occasions put in a full stop!!

[Deemania since 56 6,605]

5 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

The ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the forwards, who aren't doing very well at forcing the ball to a scrap, and then we aren't doing so well at making it a scrap in our forward area in general, so the rebounds for our opponents come out faster and cleaner, so our zoning players don't have as much time to close down options, which means opposition entries into their forward 50 are less predictable, which means our defenders can't reliably get into the best positions to intercept or contest, which means when we do rebound it isn't as clean and fast, so then our movement forward isn't as decisive, so the ball is coming in badly to the...

Stooping there, I'm dizzy.

Nice summary of the ills of our game.