1 hour ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Sometimes it's culture and sometimes it's business. Put yourself in a Geelong supporter's shoes for a moment. For the last decade, even though Gelong hasn't won a premiership, they've been in serious contention most years. That means Geelong supporters have been able to enjoy the football for most weeks for about 24 weeks of every year for 10 years. True, there hasn't been the ultimate reward in that time, but for most of every footy season, Geelong supporters have been kept happy because more weeks than not they have seen their team win. As a business model, that's a sound practice. It generates memberships and sponsorships.

go on a Cats fans forum and you'll see how happy they are.

top 4, 9 out of 10 years for 1 GF and flags is chronic finals failure

obviously its a lot more successful than we have been but I would not be happy with almost getting there.  it is not the aim

I'd prefer the dogs record over the past 10 years over the Cats.  Top 4 finishes = zero.  2 GFs, 1 flag

6 hours ago, Premiers said:

The article says Clarkson has a 6 month contract by the Tassie government.  So Clarkson gets nearly $1m from Jeff plus a tidy contract from the Hawks Home-Away-From-Home, hosts. 

Ouch, Jeff, Ouch!!

I reckon Clarkson will take a lot more than members from the Hawks.  Hawks can say bye bye to the millions they get from Tassie for the Home games they play there!  They will become dependent on pokies and government handouts.  Perform poorly for a few years and their Vic members won't go to games.  Their mega Dingley base may never get off the ground.

Clarkson will delight in bringing his nemesis down another peg or twenty!   

Maybe the Hawks themselves?😲

The Tasmanian Hawks! Gos(h)!

Ignoring the threatened wildlife opportunity I couldn't help myself with, I'm actually vaguely serious. Is it beyond the realms of possibility? And, stretching further, a merger with North (a vertical stripes rainbow waiting to happen...)?

After all, the Hawks were on the brink in the 90s despite sustained success...

On 10/13/2021 at 5:57 PM, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I get a bit sick of people blaming Kennett for the problems Victoria faces today. He was voted out of office 22 years ago - before we last played in a losing Grand Final. There's been plenty of time for subsequent governments to fix whatever they thought Kennett had damaged.

However, I can completely understand people blaming Kennett for the problems Hawthorn now faces. Nevertheless, it's completely within the power of the Hawthorn members to overcome that problem should they have a mind to do so. 

And yet some of the things he did can never be undone, privatisation for one. He was great for the big end of town and for that part of Victoria that is Melbourne Metro.

It's not the first time a Board and President have got involved with a footy department and thought they knew more about how to build a successful team than an extremely experienced Coach. And no I'm not talking about the Red Fox. I'll admit to more than a little Schadenfreude in observing this. The irony is; the "family club" has put itself in a position where few, if any, current players will want to join or stay part of the family.  Long may it continue and I love the fact a Tasmanian team will heap even more pain on the Dorks, even more so if Clarkson becomes their inaugural Coach

Edited October 14, 20213 yr by dworship
Spellin

7 hours ago, TRIGON said:

There are lots of different perspectives around what culture means, I take it to mean 'a way of doing things'. This year we moved to a 'selfless/ team-first' culture; it paid dividends. 

Yes that's true, but take Out Oliver, track, gawn, and all of those things   won't win you a cracker

35 minutes ago, Demon trucker said:

Yes that's true, but take Out Oliver, track, gawn, and all of those things   won't win you a cracker

They were all there together in 2020. So what changed?

On 10/11/2021 at 2:13 PM, rpfc said:

As we all love the slide down the ladder of the Hawks I thought it be good if we talk about the current mistakes that Sam “I’m too good to let one of the greatest coaches ever have a dignified exit” Mitchell is repeating. 

We all know how them pushing out Hodge and Lewis and co broke their culture (could have learnt something there Sam)…

And now they are doing the same with established senior players: 

https://www.afl.com.au/news/683923
 

Wingard on the table but he doesn’t want to be on the table… 

Mess.

When TMac and ANB were on the table last year, they were told they should move on and it wasn’t a surprise and they should try to control their own destiny. 

Nothing concrete materialised and you know the rest. 

But Hawthorn are shopping people that have not been brought on that journey; something tells me the results they will get owing me sane that we saw from TMac and ANB.

Discuss.

The removal of senior players before their time who are culture setters in a team of young up and coming players can quickly send a club into a death spiral. 
 

We pushed out James McDonald prematurely in a team that had a vastly overrated list (very poor drafting) as well as a host of other issues. I can’t say this was the sole reason why we went into our dark years, but it’s a lesson in maintaining players that are culture setters who’s job becomes making sure the next leaders are ready. 
 

These characteristics were the massive in the reasons we took Lewis and why Brisbane took Hodge. They were past their prime but Jesus, they both know what a good culture looked like and could coach on field. 
 

North getting rid of Petrie, Harvey and Firrito in one go. The games and experience behind these guys was immense. North’s biggest problem on field is looking like they’re leaderless at times from what I’ve seen. 
 

I know there’s an equation of blooding young players vs getting intellectual knowledge out of older players, but i think we’ve seen that just cutting the older players out in one go, doesn’t really translate into a sustained culture. 
 

 

 

14 hours ago, TRIGON said:

They were all there together in 2020. So what changed?

Natural improvement people forget that great players where not great all the time, Gary Ablett Jr average 16 positions a game in his first hundred games, Dusty' did not play his best footy until 2017, before that he was a solid player, petracca is showing his greatness about the same age as  Dustin Martin did,  without talent and great  players you can't become a great side, 

14 hours ago, TRIGON said:

They were all there together in 2020. So what changed?

Fitness would be one....

16 minutes ago, Jontee said:

Fitness would be one....

if that is so then it is unforgivable

14 minutes ago, Kent said:

if that is so then it is unforgivable

Not necessarily.  The Dees are probably the fittest team going around at the moment.  It probably takes 2-3 seasons to build up a solid fitness base, it doesnt happen overnight.  When May arrived he wasnt fit.  Apparently Tracca was told that if he wanted more time in the mid field get fitter.

50 minutes ago, Jontee said:

Fitness would be one....

One of the main Foundations of Culture 

To play the Game at The Highest Level, and play it well, The Team must be Fit. 
look at how we finished games in 2021

This Season (Finals Series) should now always be a benchmark as to how fit players need to be. Mind and Body 

1 hour ago, Demon trucker said:

Natural improvement people forget that great players where not great all the time, Gary Ablett Jr average 16 positions a game in his first hundred games, Dusty' did not play his best footy until 2017, before that he was a solid player, petracca is showing his greatness about the same age as  Dustin Martin did,  without talent and great  players you can't become a great side, 

You can have great players and still underachieve if the culture isn't right.

1 hour ago, Jontee said:

Fitness would be one....

Fitness falls under selfless; not just coasting along on your talent.

So why were they not fit?

 

4 minutes ago, Kent said:

So why were they not fit?

 

There’s a difference between being ‘fit’ and being able to do with your body what Burgess says you can do with your body…

1 hour ago, TRIGON said:

You can have great players and still underachieve if the culture isn't right.

Fitness falls under selfless; not just coasting along on your talent.

They say Richmond has a good culture because they can tell jokes at the half time huddle,I don't think many jokes where told at halftime huddles this year, when you are winning you are allowed enjoy your footy have a smile on your face, when  you are losing your not allowed to even smile. 

8 minutes ago, Demon trucker said:

They say Richmond has a good culture because they can tell jokes at the half time huddle,I don't think many jokes where told at halftime huddles this year, when you are winning you are allowed enjoy your footy have a smile on your face, when  you are losing your not allowed to even smile. 

Okay...

19 hours ago, rpfc said:

There’s a difference between being ‘fit’ and being able to do with your body what Burgess says you can do with your body…

so they wern't fit right,I mean, fit for football

Really dont know how that can happen in this era of professional footy How a club could allow that to happen

27 minutes ago, Kent said:

so they wern't fit right,I mean, fit for football

Really dont know how that can happen in this era of professional footy How a club could allow that to happen

I don’t think you are following - Gawn and few of the mids have talked about Burgess getting them all to points beyond what they had been at and beyond what other professionals around the league got to in terms of their power running and aerobic capacity.

That doesn’t mean we were ‘unprofessional’ during our run in 2018. It is also helped by the ages of our most impactful players all being in their prime years.

https://brukieandburgo.podbean.com/e/series-2-episode-1-it-s-a-grand-old-flag/

The podcast with Brukie and Burgo is brilliant.Give you so much insight into the physical fitness regime .

o

On 10/11/2021 at 2:13 PM, rpfc said:

As we all love the slide down the ladder of the Hawks I thought it be good if we talk about the current mistakes that Sam “I’m too good to let one of the greatest coaches ever have a dignified exit” Mitchell is repeating. 

We all know how them pushing out Hodge and Lewis and co broke their culture (could have learnt something there Sam)…

And now they are doing the same with established senior players: 

https://www.afl.com.au/news/683923
 

Wingard on the table but he doesn’t want to be on the table… 

Mess.

When TMac and ANB were on the table last year, they were told they should move on and it wasn’t a surprise and they should try to control their own destiny. 

Nothing concrete materialised and you know the rest. 

But Hawthorn are shopping people that have not been brought on that journey; something tells me the results they will get owing me sane that we saw from TMac and ANB.

Discuss.

Shouldn't this subject be in code . I would hate Hawthorn escaping their just deserts by learning something from rebirth following our long history as a laughing stock . I am so enjoying Hawthorns demise and sincerely hope that they end up in the lowest division of whatever suburban league will have them, perhaps in E grade Amateurs where I played a couple of very ordinary games. My only regrets about their slide down the ladder to a very just demise is that the perpetrators of the very ugly Hawthorn culture have long since departed football at least as active participants. For example: John Kennedy an over zealous school teacher [censored] torturer, this fanaticism lead to the rise of the club and the obsolescence of players like Mick Nolan, the galloping gasometer whose skills took precedence over his fitness. Delicate Des Dickson, something from a B grade horror movie, Robert DiPierdomenica whose training routine largely consisted of cool down sessions dictated by the AFL tribunal and the list goes on. 

@Mydeethe Hawks are too consumed by hubris to alter behaviour. Especially if suggested by a Melbourne person.

Bump, watching Mitchell this year, sadly (I hate the Hawks the way Jaded hates Geelong) must disagree. Mitchell going great guns  I think Hawks slide will be short and I think Mitchell is really showing some skills. Check out the latest F2F not just spin  demonstrayed some insight and nouse. If they can get ruck right top 4 next year 2023.