POSTGAME: Rd 15 vs Essendon

[Jaded No More 68,974]

6 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I think it's more that they don't want viewers switching channels which is why they try and make out as if the losing team is still in it/coming back

To be fair, at every game we have played this year, the opposition has been in it for at least parts of the contest. And Essendon were up to their eyes in it until 2 minutes to go. Did anyone relax on Saturday night? I was still worried until someone in the crowd said there was 50 seconds to go. 

[Demonstone 23,114]

7 hours ago, DEE fence said:

the way Warney brought back off spin

He did even better with leg spin.  

[dee-tox 4,835]

7 hours ago, DEE fence said:

Langdon is as brave as anything, we need to get around our fleet of wingers and what Goodwin has created with them. While the media is justifiably onto our DEE fence, what has been done with the wings is brilliant and I think will be the focus of a few 'Labs' soon. We are so much better with dedicated wingers, it gives us a nice alternative to driving off half back through corridor, we can literally get out through the left, the guts or right. I had thought the wing position was dead, but the way we play it is like the way Warney brought back off spin (I might be exaggerating slightly but not to much) totally reinvigorating the position...

Reckon on the bigger grounds like the G, the wing is crucial. 

Teams want to go through the corridor or the shortest way home but the reality is most teams are great at clogging up the corridor. Having an attacking wingman (Langdon) and letting him run into space as well as a more defensive option (Brayshaw) has been one of the moves of the year in my opinion.

Both are incredibly courageous and Langdon's gut running is out of this world. Angus' aerial ability is also underrated.

I made a comment in the votes thread that perhaps we have become too used to Langdon's brilliance and that he wins his position week after week. But as far as influence on the game goes, he is right up there with Oliver, Petracca. May, Lever and Gawn in importance and execution.

 

[DEE fence 5,042]

1 hour ago, demonstone said:

He did even better with leg spin.  

OMG WTF was i thinking, colour me red…

[leave it to deever 17,546]

Was never a fan of the other Rivers but this new one is an absloute gem. At his level of experience and age I think he will become a great player of the club.

Wouldnt mind seeing him play as a mid but hes doing too much good work where he is.

[Macca 17,080]

I reckon the days of needing to crush teams and with it,  thirsting for percentage are a thing of the past

Footy is now a defence first sport so all that really matters is the win

Percentage is worth half a win and is it really worth smashing the best players week after week just so as to win by a bigger margin?

Not crushing teams is not a weakness when you analyse how we go about it

We now have 4 walls of defence ... our forwards applying defence pressure,  midfield the same and then the 2 lines of defence.  May often plays last man as a type of goalkeeper

Edited June 28, 2021 by Macca

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Macca said:

I reckon the days of needing to crush teams and with it,  thirsting for percentage are a thing of the past

Footy is now a defence first sport so all that really matters is the win

Percentage is worth half a win and is it really worth smashing the best players week after week just so as to win by a bigger margin?

Not crushing teams is not a weakness when you analyse how we go about it

We now have 4 walls of defence ... our forwards applying defence pressure,  midfield the same and then the 2 lines of defence.  May often plays last man as a type of goalkeeper

In furious agreement.

Crushing teams helps in terms of percentage should we be competing for the last spot in the 8 against two or three teams with similar amounts of wins. 

That's not something we should be aiming for considering the platform we have built. We are aiming for a top two spot. In reality, whether we finish first or second (should either of those outcomes come to pass) is inconsequential in the bigger picture, as we both get a home final in week one and a double chance either way.

Our metrics are simple. Just keep winning, and do so by playing the style that has worked so far.

Edited June 28, 2021 by Colin B. Flaubert

[binman 44,197]

On 6/27/2021 at 11:32 AM, Dr. Gonzo said:

In the last 5 minutes alone;

- Rivers pushed straight in the back while taking his kick out of the back pocket - no free

- Hooker throws the ball over his head (just prior to the Tippa/Harmes HTB they're up in arms about) - no free

- Kozzie tackled around the neck - HTB against

There was another blatant one in the 3rd where TMac tackled Merrett and was paid holding the man against.

The Petracca one they're also whinging about that they think should've been holding the ball probably should have been a free to us for a sling tackle (one arm pinned, 360 sling, head hits the ground)

The whinging from their supporters was ridiculous, the persecution complex infiltrated their players so Merrett, Smith, Stringer etc were more worried about the umps than the footy.

Spot on.

There was another missed free that did my head in.

In a marking contest Max clearly got smashed in the head. Again. No free.

What made it worse was that it was right after he had been pinged for holding in a rock contest. Something that happens, as a bemused Max pointed out to the umpire, in nearly every stoppage ruck contest.

Perhaps we should send our resident troll to bomberblitz to post out how hard we were done by from the umpires 

[jnrmac 20,206]

19 minutes ago, Macca said:

I reckon the days of needing to crush teams and with it,  thirsting for percentage are a thing of the past

Footy is now a defence first sport so all that really matters is the win

Percentage is worth half a win and is it really worth smashing the best players week after week just so as to win by a bigger margin?

Not crushing teams is not a weakness when you analyse how we go about it

We now have 4 walls of defence ... our forwards applying defence pressure,  midfield the same and then the 2 lines of defence.  May often plays last man as a type of goalkeeper

It does worry me slightly that we largely strangle teams but in nearly every game this year we have never been far enough in front that we could relax.

Getting 4 goals up and then letting them get two quick ones to think they have a chance is becoming our standard.

We'd love it to be get 4 goals up then 5 then 6 then 7 but we cant seem to keep that scoreboard pressure up. Thats why we need to sort out our fwd line ASAP. Yes we are winning but could finish the games a LOT earlier if we could score more consistently.

 

 

[Webber 10,563]

13 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

You can't on the one hand be like "the other clubs are going to up their defence in finals" and then criticise me for arguing we could have kicked 14.9.

There's no substance behind your argument that the other sides are, just cos, going to match our defence in finals.

The point I am making about the 9.14 is that we still generated 23 scoring shots. Our forward half work can improve, no question, but it's nowhere near as bad as you've been arguing, and the net result of all that is that we're not "going nowhere" in the finals, as you claimed.

I’ll leave it to Steven May’s assessment to sum up my thoughts ….he seems to know what’s needed to go somewhere in finals. 

“We’re nowhere near [our best form],” May said. “We need to be a lot more efficient going forward. “Even though we defended well, we don’t want to defend like that every week – it’s not sustainable. “But in saying that, I’m proud of how we have set our season up.”

[binman 44,197]

50 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

Was never a fan of the other Rivers but this new one is an absloute gem. At his level of experience and age I think he will become a great player of the club.

Wouldnt mind seeing him play as a mid but hes doing too much good work where he is.

Never a fan of the other rivers?

Please, he was a gun and a fantastic servant of the club. Ahead of the game too as he was one of the first intercepting defenders.

[jnrmac 20,206]

On 6/27/2021 at 11:32 AM, Dr. Gonzo said:

In the last 5 minutes alone;

- Rivers pushed straight in the back while taking his kick out of the back pocket - no free

- Hooker throws the ball over his head (just prior to the Tippa/Harmes HTB they're up in arms about) - no free

- Kozzie tackled around the neck - HTB against

There was another blatant one in the 3rd where TMac tackled Merrett and was paid holding the man against.

The Petracca one they're also whinging about that they think should've been holding the ball probably should have been a free to us for a sling tackle (one arm pinned, 360 sling, head hits the ground)

The whinging from their supporters was ridiculous, the persecution complex infiltrated their players so Merrett, Smith, Stringer etc were more worried about the umps than the footy.

The Harmes one in the last 5 mins they were complaining about happened to us twice in the first qtr where Ess players were tackled and just let the ball go or failed to connect a fist or a foot to the ball.

[Macca 17,080]

Just now, jnrmac said:

It does worry me slightly that we largely strangle teams but in nearly every game this year we have never been far enough in front that we could relax.

Getting 4 goals up and then letting them get two quick ones to think they have a chance is becoming our standard.

We'd love it to be get 4 goals up then 5 then 6 then 7 but we cant seem to keep that scoreboard pressure up. Thats why we need to sort out our fwd line ASAP. Yes we are winning but could finish the games a LOT earlier if we could score more consistently.

Depends on how one views footy ... when Essendon got within 11 points late in the last quarter I was not in the least bit concerned ... had strong belief in our systems & structures

New dawn, new age, new team.  MFCSS has been buried for now

5 years ago I would have had an opposite view with only an 11 point lead but 5 years ago we were nowhere near as good defensively as we are now

We have become the lockdown specialists ... here's hoping we can maintain that mantra

[Macca 17,080]

20 minutes ago, Colin B. Flaubert said:

In furious agreement.

Crushing teams helps in terms of percentage should we be competing for the last spot in the 8 against two or three teams with similar amounts of wins. 

That's not something we should be aiming for considering the platform we have built. We are aiming for a top two spot. In reality, whether we finish first or second (should either of those outcomes come to pass) is inconsequential in the bigger picture, as we both get a home final in week one and a double chance either way.

Our metrics are simple. Just keep winning, and do so by playing the style that has worked so far.

First noticed the lesser emphasis on percentage with Geelong in 2017

They finished 2nd that year but their percentage was around 117.  Scott started locking down late in games and now many other teams are following suit. 

Defence first ... Roos' mantra from long ago holds up and we are seeing it first hand with our own team

[Demon17 5,211]

4 hours ago, dee-tox said:

Reckon on the bigger grounds like the G, the wing is crucial. 

Teams want to go through the corridor or the shortest way home but the reality is most teams are great at clogging up the corridor. Having an attacking wingman (Langdon) and letting him run into space as well as a more defensive option (Brayshaw) has been one of the moves of the year in my opinion.

Both are incredibly courageous and Langdon's gut running is out of this world. Angus' aerial ability is also underrated.

I made a comment in the votes thread that perhaps we have become too used to Langdon's brilliance and that he wins his position week after week. But as far as influence on the game goes, he is right up there with Oliver, Petracca. May, Lever and Gawn in importance and execution.

 

Good post here. The heat map of langdon that has been shown on TV shows Langdon is orange/yellow in both the back and forward pockets of his wing and not much in between. He spends time helping defence and attack then scampers to the opposite end he might be on  - few if any teams have an Ed Langdon-type.

He's our 8th defender IMO as a side job.

 

[BDA 22,956]

Percentage should not be an aim in and of itself. It’s a by-product.

We don’t get full value for our dominance because we miss too many gettable set-shots. Its going to cost us one of these days.

Improve our goal kicking and our percentage takes care of itself.

[John Crow Batty 8,879]

48 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

It does worry me slightly that we largely strangle teams but in nearly every game this year we have never been far enough in front that we could relax.

Getting 4 goals up and then letting them get two quick ones to think they have a chance is becoming our standard.

We'd love it to be get 4 goals up then 5 then 6 then 7 but we cant seem to keep that scoreboard pressure up. Thats why we need to sort out our fwd line ASAP. Yes we are winning but could finish the games a LOT earlier if we could score more consistently.

 

 

As I said previously we need a dominating key forward. Tmac and Fritsch are solid contributors but not stand alone dominators at the pointy end. Only two goals from key forwards in the past two game is poor. Weid and BBB were supposed to be the prime key forwards but haven’t showed up and left a big hole. Get one of them playing to their potential we can think about upping scoreboard pressure. We could look to making Jackson a key target but have to look else where to assist Gawn in the ruck. I believe Petty with his hight and ability to contest a mark as an option also. But then we have cover his position. 

Edited June 28, 2021 by John Crow Batty

[Adam The God 30,541]

I think our forwardline problems are being overplayed here. Our goalkicking is definitely a problem, but in that third quarter, we should have been 4 or 5 goals up at three quarter time. We lowered the eyes really well going inside and cut them up. But Harmes, Fritsch and McDonald, off the top of my head, all missed or failed to get the distance on regulation kicks at goal from 40-45m.

Kick those goals and the umpiring fades into the background and everyone's talking about how well our smaller forwardline functioned after half time. It was the forwardline after all that had us undefeated earlier in the season.

Instead, we kept them in the game. McDonald kicks those almost every week, so that was unlike him. Harmes kicked one from a slightly closer spot earlier in the game and Fritsch should be nailing his as well.

If we go 4 or 5 goals up at three quarter time, who knows what Essendon do. Maybe we get a couple of easy ones that blows out the lead or we simply lock the game down and win it by 4 or 5 goals.

I went into the match saying if we brought our work rate and focus, we'd win by 4 or 5 goals. We bought the work rate, that was clear from our all field defensive set up without the ball, but we didn't bring the focus with ball use (in the first half), getting sucked in to too many contests in the midfield and getting done on the outside, and we didn't kick straight. Otherwise, it's a regulation Melbourne 2021 win. 

That said, I'm happy to try Brown in the side and I'd be content for it to be at the expense of Fritsch.

[Jaded No More 68,974]

2 minutes ago, A F said:

I think our forwardline problems are being overplayed here. Our goalkicking is definitely a problem, but in that third quarter, we should have been 4 or 5 goals up at three quarter time. We lowered the eyes really well going inside and cut them up. But Harmes, Fritsch and McDonald, off the top of my head, all missed or failed to get the distance on regulation kicks at goal from 40-45m.

Kick those goals and the umpiring fades into the background and everyone's talking about how well our smaller forwardline functioned after half time. It was the forwardline after all that had us undefeated earlier in the season.

Instead, we kept them in the game. McDonald kicks those almost every week, so that was unlike him. Harmes kicked one from a slightly closer spot earlier in the game and Fritsch should be nailing his as well.

If we go 4 or 5 goals up at three quarter time, who knows what Essendon do. Maybe we get a couple of easy ones that blows out the lead or we simply lock the game down and win it by 4 or 5 goals.

I went into the match saying if we brought our work rate and focus, we'd win by 4 or 5 goals. We bought the work rate, that was clear from our all field defensive set up without the ball, but we didn't bring the focus with ball use (in the first half), getting sucked in to too many contests in the midfield and getting done on the outside, and we didn't kick straight. Otherwise, it's a regulation Melbourne 2021 win. 

That said, I'm happy to try Brown in the side and I'd be content for it to be at the expense of Fritsch.

But goal kicking is partly a problem because we are playing a lot of part- time forwards in there, due  to a lack of a true tall forward.

You also end up robbing Trac of midfield minutes, which is not something I really want to do in finals.

Yes we can score well, but for me it's less about the number of scores on the board, and more about the amount of time  the ball is spending in our backline, because we aren't taking enough contested marks up forward and so the opposition can move the ball out of our forwardline with more ease.

There is no doubt we won the game on Saturday because of our backline, and that is not the first time that has happened this year. We have won very few games this year because we kicked big scores. We've won them because we held our opposition to low scores. Now imagine if we can still do that but also increase the time we spend with the ball in our forward half? We would be even more difficult to beat. 

 

[binman 44,197]

To be fair to bomber's fans i would have been ropable wit the Harmes non call too. Should have been paid.

And from memory, if tippa had kicked a goal from the resulting free (which was no certainty by the way as he can't kick over a jam tin and the mark would have ben about 40 out) they would have been only 5 points down.

But the other 'controversial' frees we got they are whinging about were all there.

The free to Jordon in the square might have been marginal as Stringer did it pretty well actually. But he still got him high and but they almost always pay any front on contact such as that one.

And the first of the double 50s was there, despite the carping from Darcy, as the player took an eternity to get to the mark and in doing so held up the dees player from releasing it - which is exactly what the 50 rule was brought in for. The end one was for abuse so 100% no issue with it being paid.

And besides, as a number of posters have pointed out, Smith was running in the protected zone for 30 metres so could have been pinged for that too.    

And the late free against Tmac was potentially result changer. We had all the momentum. He assumed the free was going to him for holding the ball, as it should have. There is no way that was in the back.

And it it cost us a likely goal as we had the ball inside 50 and no defenders. It also stopped our momentum as IIRC a goal then would have put the margin out to 24 points and game over. They scored the next and game on.

Edited June 28, 2021 by binman

[Jaded No More 68,974]

1 minute ago, binman said:

To be fair to bomber's fans i would have been ropable wit the Harmes non call too. Should have been paid.

And from memory, if tippa had kicked a goal from the resulting free (which was no certainty by the way as he can't kick over a jam tin and the mark would have ben about 40 out) they would have been only 5 points down.

But the other 'controversial' frees we got they are whinging about were all there. The free to Jordon in the square might have been marginal as Stringer did it pretty well actually. But he still got him high and but they almost always pay any front on contact such as that one.

And the first of the double 50s was there, despite the carping from Darcy, as the player took an eternity to get to the mark and in doing so held up the dees player from releasing it - which is exactly what the 50 rule was brought in for. The end one was for abuse so 100% no issue with it being paid.

And besides, as a number of posters have pointed out, Smith was running in the protected zone for 30 metres so could have been pinged for that too.    

And the late free against Tmac was potentially result changer. We had all the momentum. He assumed the free was going to him for holding the ball, as it should have. There is no way that was in the back. And it it cost us a likely goal as we had the ball inside 50 and no defenders. It also stopped out momentum as IIRC a goal then would have put the margin out to 24 points and game over. They scored the next and game on.

Please go post that on Bomberblitz and then report back on the complete meltdown that ensues. 

Bombers fans crying is a real favourite pass time of mine. 

[Superunknown 4,225]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

I reckon the days of needing to crush teams and with it,  thirsting for percentage are a thing of the past

Footy is now a defence first sport so all that really matters is the win

Percentage is worth half a win and is it really worth smashing the best players week after week just so as to win by a bigger margin?

Not crushing teams is not a weakness when you analyse how we go about it

We now have 4 walls of defence ... our forwards applying defence pressure,  midfield the same and then the 2 lines of defence.  May often plays last man as a type of goalkeeper

I see a couple of % boosters good risk management.

According to Matter of Stats, the top 2 and 4 composition will be decided by %.

If we lose a few, it could mean the difference between 3 and 2 (and home grounds all the way) and 5 and 4 and the double chance.

[old55 23,800]

Titus

https://www.titusoreily.com/afl/the-monday-knee-jerk-reaction-afl-round-fifteen2021

Essendon (57) v Umpires (68)

The Bombers were cruising towards an enormous victory in this one, until the AFL hierarchy, who have been long involved in a conspiracy to destroy the Essendon Football Club, told the umpires to make sure Melbourne won.

[Kumamoto_Ken 1,531]

5 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

Titus

https://www.titusoreily.com/afl/the-monday-knee-jerk-reaction-afl-round-fifteen2021

Essendon (57) v Umpires (68)

The Bombers were cruising towards an enormous victory in this one, until the AFL hierarchy, who have been long involved in a conspiracy to destroy the Essendon Football Club, told the umpires to make sure Melbourne won.

Lovely work Titus...twist the knife.

[Macca 17,080]

1 hour ago, Superunknown said:

I see a couple of % boosters good risk management.

According to Matter of Stats, the top 2 and 4 composition will be decided by %.

If we lose a few, it could mean the difference between 3 and 2 (and home grounds all the way) and 5 and 4 and the double chance.

And if we keep our players fresh and keep winning percentage won't matter

Locking down games at the tail end of games can have the cumulative effect of saving the legs of the best players

We've been playing a non percentage boosting style all season and sit 2 games clear on top

If Ben Brown comes in and fires we are looking even better

It's fair to say that our forward line needs to perform better so we need improvement in that area

Edited June 28, 2021 by Macca