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COVID & AFL 2021

Demonland
Demonland
in Melbourne Demons

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Just now, Jaded said:

But I am not in any risk factor category so they won’t give me anything. AZ or otherwise. 

The fact you’re NOT in a risk cat. means you can, as long as you understand potential complications - clotting. What I don’t know is what that informed consent looks like. 

    • Like 2
     
    1 hour ago, Superunknown said:

    You obviously aren't really across what is happening in Health at the moment.

    All I see is what happens to me out in the real world.

    • Like 1
    16 minutes ago, binman said:

    I don't think that's the case actually. I think, but stand to be corrected, thst informed consent is a blanket statement that atm applies only to people eligible to get a vaccination (1a, 1b  frontline workers etc)

    The full screed from health.gov right now - 

    The Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI) recommends that the COVID-19 vaccine by Pfizer (Comirnaty) is preferred in adults aged under 50 years.

    In people 50 years and over, ATAGI continue to advise that the benefit of vaccination with AstraZeneca COVID vaccine outweighs the risks associated with vaccination.

    This recommendation is based on:

    • the increasing risk of severe outcomes from COVID-19 in older adults (and hence a higher benefit from vaccination), and
    • a potentially increased risk of thrombosis with thrombocytopenia following AstraZeneca vaccine in those under 50 years.

    There appears to be a small risk of TTS in people 50 years and over, but this risk appears to be lower than in younger people. Cases overseas have been reported at all ages.

    People who are considering vaccination with AstraZeneca COVID-19 vaccine should be aware of this potential complication as part of providing informed consent.

    The COVID-19 AstraZeneca vaccine can be used in adults aged under 50 years where the benefits clearly outweigh the risk for that individual and the person has made an informed decision based on an understanding of the risks and benefits.

    Using words like ‘preferred’ and ‘recommends’ means they can’t legally refuse you. However, and this is part of my frustration, some vax centres will say you’re not eligible, or actively discourage you. I know people who have been refused this way, and a couple of forty-somethings who got AZ vax at Exhibish building last week. Like deliberate OOB, a shambles. 

    Edited by Webber
    Typo

    • Like 1
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    To clarify, those forty-somethings weren’t in any ‘eligible’ category (age excepted).

    • Like 1

    And 

    9 minutes ago, Webber said:

    Like deliberate OOB, a shambles. 

    And a national embarrassment.

    There was such a smugness about out response to COVID, particularly in comparison to that of the United states and the UK.

    Well the states has now hit 50% of the adult population vaccinated mark. Meaning only 20% more to get to herd immunity. And the UK is arounds that mark too i think. Both countries will be on the other side of this before we will. Which is just absurd

    We had time, the systems and vaccines. We should have hit the herd immunity mark by now for god's sake.

    We can blame the politicians all we like but we should collectively asking why we haven't and why there has not been a massive push from the community to have done so. I guarantee if Morrison thought failing to reach herd immunity would costs them the next election the feds would have made it priority number one - which of course it should have been anyway!. 

    • Like 3

    22 minutes ago, old dee said:

    All I see is what happens to me out in the real world.

    In NSW, flights are met and screened by public health. That's the real world.

    • Like 1
    2 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

    Flew to QLD on Friday May 7th, there were two new cases in Sydney that week. A man who tested positive on the Wednesday and his wife testing positive on the Thursday. Upon arrival in Brisbane all passengers were greeted by members of QLD police and QLD health. I was simply asked how I was and if I had visited a hot stop, I replied I’m fine and no and was ushered past QLD health.

    NO TEMPERATURE CHECK

    NO LICENSE CHECK

    What if I was lying....Sadly incompetence runs this county. So many mistakes already made and no lessons learnt.

    I dont think its incompetence - i think it may be related to whether it is lawful. 

    8 minutes ago, binman said:

    And 

    And a national embarrassment.

    There was such a smugness about out response to COVID, particularly in comparison to that of the United states and the UK.

    Well the states has now hit 50% of the adult population vaccinated mark. Meaning only 20% more to get to herd immunity. And the UK is arounds that mark too i think. Both countries will be on the other side of this before we will. Which is just absurd

    We had time, the systems and vaccines. We should have hit the herd immunity mark by now for god's sake.

    We can blame the politicians all we like but we should collectively asking why we haven't and why there has not been a massive push from the community to have done so. I guarantee if Morrison thought failing to reach herd immunity would costs them the next election the feds would have made it priority number one - which of course it should have been anyway!. 

    Our initial approach to COVID is the envy of all countries (with exception to NZ) It has saved countless lives of those that are most vulnerable in our society. Plus we have had the ability to live a relatively normal life for the best part of 6 months now, whilst most other countries are jumping from lockdown to lockdown still with hundreds if not thousands of deaths per day. For this we must applaud the state governments, which were left high and dry by the federal government. If we should be embarrassed about anything it is the vaccination program, which was in the hands of the feds. But even that was due to some bad luck relating to the side effects of the AZ vaccine. We really had no other choice but to put  our (vaccine) eggs in that particular basket given the complexities associated with supply chain and manufacturing capability onshore of mRNA vaccines.  

    • Like 3
     
    6 minutes ago, CYB said:

    Our initial approach to COVID is the envy of all countries (with exception to NZ) It has saved countless lives of those that are most vulnerable in our society. Plus we have had the ability to live a relatively normal life for the best part of 6 months now, whilst most other countries are jumping from lockdown to lockdown still with hundreds if not thousands of deaths per day. For this we must applaud the state governments, which were left high and dry by the federal government. If we should be embarrassed about anything it is the vaccination program, which was in the hands of the feds. But even that was due to some bad luck relating to the side effects of the AZ vaccine. We really had no other choice but to put  our (vaccine) eggs in that particular basket given the complexities associated with supply chain and manufacturing capability onshore of mRNA vaccines.  

    True all that. Side-effects have sadly been given much more weight than they deserve by the media. They exist, but have negligible incidence, and less significance now that people know what to look for. 

    • Like 4

    Agree our approach to covid was first class.

    Our approach to vaccination has been anything but.

    • Like 2

    This is a mob of course being overwhelmingly supported to the "hilt" by the Media as a whole who, while being openly ambivalent, are being covertly contacted and subsequently purged (to use an old Soviet term) by the Fed.... 

    30 minutes ago, binman said:

    And 

    And a national embarrassment.

    There was such a smugness about out response to COVID, particularly in comparison to that of the United states and the UK.

    Well the states has now hit 50% of the adult population vaccinated mark. Meaning only 20% more to get to herd immunity. And the UK is arounds that mark too i think. Both countries will be on the other side of this before we will. Which is just absurd

    We had time, the systems and vaccines. We should have hit the herd immunity mark by now for god's sake.

    We can blame the politicians all we like but we should collectively asking why we haven't and why there has not been a massive push from the community to have done so. I guarantee if Morrison thought failing to reach herd immunity would costs them the next election the feds would have made it priority number one - which of course it should have been anyway!. 

    IMO it is partly the result of getting in control of the virus spread very early on. We have not had big numbers of people dying so the majority are complacent. Just this morning a friend told me ( over 70 ) I am waiting for the other drug. I am not in any danger area so I will be ok! Beggars belief.

    • Like 1
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    23 minutes ago, binman said:

    And 

    And a national embarrassment.

    There was such a smugness about out response to COVID, particularly in comparison to that of the United states and the UK.

    Well the states has now hit 50% of the adult population vaccinated mark. Meaning only 20% more to get to herd immunity. And the UK is arounds that mark too i think. Both countries will be on the other side of this before we will. Which is just absurd

    We had time, the systems and vaccines. We should have hit the herd immunity mark by now for god's sake.

    We can blame the politicians all we like but we should collectively asking why we haven't and why there has not been a massive push from the community to have done so. I guarantee if Morrison thought failing to reach herd immunity would costs them the next election the feds would have made it priority number one - which of course it should have been anyway!. 

    Yep to all. I think the problem with ‘push from community’ is that it currently gets overwhelmed by media imperatives - controversy and fear. Too loud and too convincing for too many. As a nation, I think living standards have made us complacent and introspective, dare I say selfish. Community ain’t what it was, or could be. As for the current fed government, being conservatives they are by definition committed to do as little as possible, then see if they can get away with it. Exactly what their inertia is born of. I was pleasantly amazed when they jumped to financial provision last year, but of course we’re now seeing that much of it was profit for the big boys, thus staying true to the glories of trickle-down theory. All comes down to leadership, which they aren’t providing. Just as well they’re experts at blame-shifting.

    • Like 2
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    1 minute ago, old dee said:

    IMO it is partly the result of getting in control of the virus spread very early on. We have not had big numbers of people dying so the majority are complacent. Just this morning a friend told me ( over 70 ) I am waiting for the other drug. I am not in any danger area so I will be ok! Beggars belief.

    So much for the Australian spirit of community and looking after each other. I'm alright jack should be our national motto

    • Like 2

    1 minute ago, binman said:

    So much for the Australian spirit of community and looking after each other. I'm alright jack should be our national motto

    I am probably more bolshi than most if I was the PM it would be compulsory. 
    Not that long ago it was compulsory to have a X-ray for TB. 

    • Like 2

    Govt may have to resort to that old tried n true solution... cash incentives. 

    30 minutes ago, CYB said:

    We really had no other choice but to put  our (vaccine) eggs in that particular basket given the complexities associated with supply chain and manufacturing capability onshore of mRNA vaccines.  

    A group of scientists were pushing for this capacity a while back...we would have been well down the track to having the  capability to manufacture if they had of been listened too.

    Now it's going to be a good 12 months plus with all the p....around and if it's like energy policy it will never happen.

    Science and politics don't seem to be good bedfellows these days unfortunately.

    • Like 3
    • Thanks 2
    35 minutes ago, old dee said:

    IMO it is partly the result of getting in control of the virus spread very early on. We have not had big numbers of people dying so the majority are complacent. Just this morning a friend told me ( over 70 ) I am waiting for the other drug. I am not in any danger area so I will be ok! Beggars belief.

    I understand that even if you are fully vaccinated you can catch and spread Covid19, you may not show symptoms or they may be less severe. So how does your 70yo friend in a non danger area cause a problem? Australia has approx 85 active cases in 25,000,000 people. How does your 70yo friend preferring a better (edit - and safer) drug upset you?

    Edited by ManDee
    better - added safer

    • Like 1
    43 minutes ago, Webber said:

    True all that. Side-effects have sadly been given much more weight than they deserve by the media. They exist, but have negligible incidence, and less significance now that people know what to look for. 

    Could you provide a citation for the above please?

    • Like 1

    3 hours ago, Jaded said:

    It’s not surprising how we constantly find ourselves with outbreaks larger than any other state 

    This outbreak started in hotel quarantine in Adelaide

    1 hour ago, old dee said:

    All I see is what happens to me out in the real world.

    The "real world"  And where might that be?  Is it where 100's of K's have died?  Operating under the auspices of the Commonwealth Department of Home Affairs, we have the Australian Border Force.  What are they doing?  Hotel Quarantine has been an abject failure and as the feds have been warned time and time again, by health experts, hotel quarantine is not fit for purpose.

    1 hour ago, Webber said:

    True all that. Side-effects have sadly been given much more weight than they deserve by the media. They exist, but have negligible incidence, and less significance now that people know what to look for. 

    Had the first AZ shot on Monday. A bit wonky yesterday but fine today.

    Most people don't know anyone that's been seriously sick from Covid. I think that's one of the big drivers for complacency.

    This study on the neurological effects of Covid made up my mind pretty quickly. 1 in 3.

    https://www.ft.com/content/beb407c0-03a3-4aae-ba4b-7f66390d7409

    Heard a federal MP banging on about the latest Vic outbreak and how people should have been vaccinated pffft. 

    And yes, scientists recommend to the feds almost 12 months ago to ramp up onshore MRNA manufacturing capabilities

     

     

    • Like 5
     

    It's unlikely the Vic clubs that have left today being Essendon, Hawthorn and Carlton will be allowed back into the state to play before next weekend. There may be a fixture shuffle I think.

    This may mean we won't play Brisbane in the NT next Fri and may play another VIC based team we're supposed to play between now and the end of the year. 

    Just a thought........

    11 minutes ago, Brownie said:

     

     

     

    ..................

    And yes, scientists recommend to the feds almost 12 months ago to ramp up onshore MRNA manufacturing capabilities

     

     

    pffft yourself, 12 months ago we didn't even know if there would be a successful vaccine, let alone whether the mrna variant would be the better approach

    12 months ago there was even scientists saying it could be 5 years away

    no need to reinvent history

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