6 hours ago, hemingway said:

Scully is a good example of a young champion footballer that makes the grade but struggles to make an impact. Happens to many if not most. It’s a warning that champion schoolboys need careful assessment. Also a warning that many schoolboys are “over trained” by the time they get there and develop chronic injuries early on. From memory Scully had problems almost from the start. Certainly, he had an injury hampered career.  

From a monetary viewpoint he was in the right place at the right time. He and Dad made a killing but only because clubs came knocking with pockets if not sacks of money. Given the nature of the dog eat dog mentality of footy these days, you can’t blame him.  Sure he may have misled many in the process but he was a young kid taking the advice of an elder. And whose to say he was wrong. Financially, footy has delivered a comfortable lifestyle and secure future, even if he never works a day in his life. 

As it was, it turned out to be a blessing for the Demons. Saved the club lots of money and what to do with an overpaid player that falls below expectations. And think of how many of us would have had the Jack Watts if Scully had continued with the Dees. 

Well said Hemingway. agree on all points. I have even softened on the Jimmy thing. Handshake, or give you my word conversations mean nothing in the AFL.  It is signatures on paper that counts. No one knows exactly what was said or how it was said. All said and done I  think Jimmy would have given the kid a break and not held a grudge for too long.

9 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Scully had a very good 2016 and 2017 and was nominated in the All Aust 40 squad both years. This coincided with back to back prelim finals for his club.

To call him a below average played is incorrect IMO.

Indeed. He certainly isnt worth the money he was paid but he was very good in 16 and 17. His 2015 was also strong.

This is one of those threads where you realise that a number of the louder posters dont watch many non demon games.

18 hours ago, rjay said:

Not fair play but in the end both clubs got screwed...Tom & his dad set themselves up nicely through no fault of their own.

Ridiculous comment Rjay 

Who decided to recruit Tom and his Dad?

Oh GWS !!!

Well it's not Tom and his Dad that decided They were screwed after accepting offers that the AFL should have investigated!

Young  players Should be tied for 3 years and no AFL change has yet been made to improve the game since!

 

23 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Yes, I remember the talk well  too. It was like a boys club where no one was prepared to speak their own mind. I do not want to sound a know all but I was also massively underwhelmed when I saw Sheahans footage on Jack watts at Brighton on his Future stars program. All I saw was a kid taller than his opponent lead out, mark and kick from 35 to 40 with no pressure on. I felt we were looking for players who were clones of the type of players we needed regardless of their real attributes or desire.

Any quotes for us to see in 2009/2010 HFF from your catalogue on Jack?

Nice to see how modestly you accept your own praise also!!!!

 

 

1 hour ago, 58er said:

Any quotes for us to see in 2009/2010 HFF from your catalogue on Jack?

Nice to see how modestly you accept your own praise also!!!!

 

 

Nice to see you take such an intertest in my thoughts 5/8.  Stand by what I said about Watts at the time. He was not so much an unfulfilled talent as someone who never had the full package from the start. That was as evident then as it was in his early and late career. Do you think he ever carried himself like the 195 cm dominating key forward Sheahan predicted ? 

Edited January 27, 20215 yr by Half forward flank

1 hour ago, 58er said:

Any quotes for us to see in 2009/2010 HFF from your catalogue on Jack?

Nice to see how modestly you accept your own praise also!!!!

 

 

it is not the footage I saw at the time but go and have a look at youtube

Jack Watts 2008 AFl Under 18 Championship. Neat player, yes, dominant key forward,no. One overhead mark against a slow undersized defender.

1 hour ago, 58er said:

Ridiculous comment Rjay 

Who decided to recruit Tom and his Dad?

Oh GWS !!!

Well it's not Tom and his Dad that decided They were screwed after accepting offers that the AFL should have investigated!

Young  players Should be tied for 3 years and no AFL change has yet been made to improve the game since!

 

The AFL.

On 1/27/2021 at 11:14 AM, rjay said:

Not fair play but in the end both clubs got screwed...Tom & his dad set themselves up nicely through no fault of their own.

 

5 hours ago, 58er said:

Ridiculous comment Rjay 

Who decided to recruit Tom and his Dad?

Oh GWS !!!

Well it's not Tom and his Dad that decided They were screwed after accepting offers that the AFL should have investigated!

Young  players Should be tied for 3 years and no AFL change has yet been made to improve the game since!

 

Sorry '58er'...I don't understand what you are getting at here nor why my comment is ridiculous.

Let me try and explain.

I agree that it wasn't fair play, the whole thing smelt a bit rotten with Scully's dad working with GWS.

Both clubs were screwed...at the time we lost a player we thought would be a generational player for us and they paid way overs for a player they thought the same.

We actually ended up better off but that wasn't to be known at the time and I like most of us felt cheated by the AFL & the Scully's.

GWS screwed themselves...

As for Tom & his dad, they took what was on offer. Good luck to them. They didn't make the offer, GWS were stupid enough to play way overs for a good average AFL player who in the end was cut down by injury. Tom & his dad made the right decision by them.

As for the AFL rule to tie players to 3 years, yeah I think it's a good idea but I made no comment on that.

Edited January 28, 20215 yr by rjay

1 hour ago, rjay said:

 

Sorry '58er'...I don't understand what you are getting at here nor why my comment is ridiculous.

Let me try and explain.

I agree that it wasn't fair play, the whole thing smelt a bit rotten with Scully's dad working with GWS.

In the end though both clubs were screwed...we lost a player we thought would be a generational player for us and they paid way overs for a player they thought the same.

We actually ended up better off but that wasn't to be known at the time and I like most of us felt cheated by the AFL & the Scully's.

GWS screwed themselves...

As for Tom & his dad, they took what was on offer. Good luck to them. They didn't make the offer, GWS were stupid enough to play way overs for a good average AFL player who in the end was cut down by injury. Tom & his dad made the right decision by them.

As for the AFL rule to tie players to 3 years, yeah I think it's a good idea but I made no comment on that.

In terms of how our club fared re Scully its a case of of 'All's well that ends well' ... in the end we turned Scully into May (in a roundabout way) and Steven might have 4 very productive years ahead of him as a premier backman

We originally turned the Scully compo pick into Hogan and aside from when Jesse was injured,  he was easily our leading forward

But from an overall perspective a lot turned to pus back then (especially those horrid 2012 & 2013 seasons)  And 2014 was tough going not knowing if we were going to drag ourselves out of the mud

Nightmarish times

As for GWS ... company store,  company money.  Not many 'really' care

Edited January 27, 20215 yr by Macca

11 minutes ago, Macca said:

In terms of how our club fared re Scully its a case of of 'All's well that ends well' ... in the end we turned Scully into May (in a roundabout way) and Steven might have 4 very productive years ahead of him as a premier backman

But from an overall perspective a lot turned to pus back then (especially those horrid 2012 & 2013 seasons)  And 2014 was tough going not knowing if we were going to drag ourselves out of the mud

Nightmarish times

As for GWS ... company store,  company money.  No one cares

Didnt we turn TS into Dom Barry and Hoges?

13 minutes ago, Macca said:

As for GWS ... company store,  company money.  No one cares

I think that's a key point 'Macca' and in the end probably why they haven't produced a flag.

The care factor including their's was next to zero...they had and used the luxury of churning through money and players.

They weren't really held to account, but the day of reckoning is fast approaching.

3 minutes ago, Kent said:

Didnt we turn TS into Dom Barry and Hoges?

Yeah we did but in the end we used the Hogan pick that we got from Freo into May

As previously stated, 'in the end' we turned Scully into May

5 minutes ago, Kent said:

Didnt we turn TS into Dom Barry and Hoges?

In the end it turned into May...

12 minutes ago, rjay said:

In the end it turned into May...

All that really matters with trades & drafting (or any sort of recruiting really) is the overall end result

e.g. Max Gawn pick 34 in 2009 draft is a fantastic result

I won't list those at the other end of the scale rjay ... haven't got the time!

Edited January 27, 20215 yr by Macca

5 hours ago, rjay said:

As for the AFL rule to tie players to 3 years, yeah I think it's a good idea but I made no comment on that.

Maybe 4 years would work better for the clubs (re draftees) but with a few caveats involved pertaining to earnings etc

Malthouse stated a number of years ago that each draftee costs the clubs at least $200k per year all-up when factoring in the FD spend

It's probably more like $250k these days (Covid aside) and that's a lot of money to spend on a spec pick (aren't they all spec picks?)  A big gamble

So swapping picks for absolute proven talent is way less of a gamble.  Not every time of course as there are gems to be found throughout every draft.  Swapping 2nd rounders for has worked out ok for us (in a general sense)

But there are pitfalls and we fell into a giant pit when we went youth-crazy way back when ... at the same time we were trying to get rid of our experienced players (another mistake) as well as embarking on a 'Let's position ourselves well in the draft' crusade without any real thought as to a guaranteed beneficial end result

Edited January 28, 20215 yr by Macca

On 1/27/2021 at 6:21 PM, Half forward flank said:

Well said Hemingway. agree on all points. I have even softened on the Jimmy thing. Handshake, or give you my word conversations mean nothing in the AFL.  It is signatures on paper that counts. No one knows exactly what was said or how it was said. All said and done I  think Jimmy would have given the kid a break and not held a grudge for too long.

Generations pass on good things and bad things, and you live and die by them...

On 27/01/2021 at 11:59 PM, BAMF said:

Indeed. He certainly isnt worth the money he was paid but he was very good in 16 and 17. His 2015 was also strong.

This is one of those threads where you realise that a number of the louder posters dont watch many non demon games.

He was not below average player but was no superstar either, he is no match winner at his best, he was not a great kick, he was not  quick, he was not tough, all he could do was run all day, now that he is only a average runner and not elite runner he is a below average player now.

23 Brownlow votes in 187 games.  Got 5 of those votes with the Dees.

Thats woeful.  Trac almost had more this season alone. 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

23 Brownlow votes in 187 games.  Got 5 of those votes with the Dees.

Thats woeful.  Trac almost had more this season alone. 

 

 

He is a long distance runner

Always was

the Recruiters, the media and The MFC got it wrong, such a shame he didn’t go to Richmond. He was a big Tiger Fan

On 1/28/2021 at 7:58 AM, rjay said:

 

Sorry '58er'...I don't understand what you are getting at here nor why my comment is ridiculous.

Let me try and explain.

I agree that it wasn't fair play, the whole thing smelt a bit rotten with Scully's dad working with GWS.

Both clubs were screwed...at the time we lost a player we thought would be a generational player for us and they paid way overs for a player they thought the same.

We actually ended up better off but that wasn't to be known at the time and I like most of us felt cheated by the AFL & the Scully's.

GWS screwed themselves...

As for Tom & his dad, they took what was on offer. Good luck to them. They didn't make the offer, GWS were stupid enough to play way overs for a good average AFL player who in the end was cut down by injury. Tom & his dad made the right decision by them.

As for the AFL rule to tie players to 3 years, yeah I think it's a good idea but I made no comment on that.

Rjay great That  you commented again.

My point is why have Crocodile  tears for GWS who made a decision to overpay for Tom and his Dad. That's not being screwed that's making a bad business decision just the same as all Clubs make on certain players overpaying them eg.

Carlton Mitch McGovern

Melbourne John Tilbrook

 

28 minutes ago, 58er said:

Rjay great That  you commented again.

My point is why have Crocodile  tears for GWS who made a decision to overpay for Tom and his Dad. That's not being screwed that's making a bad business decision just the same as all Clubs make on certain players overpaying them eg.

Carlton Mitch McGovern

Melbourne John Tilbrook

 

Tilly was a good get back in those days played some great games for us in a very ordinary team

1 minute ago, forever demons said:

Tilly was a good get back in those days played some great games for us in a very ordinary team

FD

Do you really think that he performed up to the $$$ spent? Did he improve us much? Was the money worth it?

I think NO is the answer to all of those questions. We were about a mid table team the year he joined I reckon and didn't improve IMO with Diamond Jim on board.

My point is that we made the decision to offer big $$$ and you are not screwed if you make that decision. You are responsible for your own decisions and GWS was in the Scully scenario with his Dad also. 

38 minutes ago, 58er said:

Rjay great That  you commented again.

My point is why have Crocodile  tears for GWS who made a decision to overpay for Tom and his Dad. That's not being screwed that's making a bad business decision just the same as all Clubs make on certain players overpaying them eg.

Carlton Mitch McGovern

Melbourne John Tilbrook

 

No crocodile tears for GWS '58'...there's little doubt they screwed themselves as you say by overpaying.

Maybe I didn't make that clear enough.

 

 

4 minutes ago, 58er said:

FD

Do you really think that he performed up to the $$$ spent? Did he improve us much? Was the money worth it?

I think NO is the answer to all of those questions. We were about a mid table team the year he joined I reckon and didn't improve IMO with Diamond Jim on board.

My point is that we made the decision to offer big $$$ and you are not screwed if you make that decision. You are responsible for your own decisions and GWS was in the Scully scenario with his Dad also. 

you could not have watched him play to often ,pretty sure we paid $75000 for him way back then ,lot of money back then and set a precident for the future

7 minutes ago, forever demons said:

you could not have watched him play to often ,pretty sure we paid $75000 for him way back then ,lot of money back then and set a precident for the future

Have you answered your own questionFD? 
$75,000 was he worth it 

I don't think so.

I watched  some MCG games up to 1965 then every week games in Melbourne to 1992 till I moved interstate to work. that's 27 years by about 18 games per season plus 30 other prior  totalling over 500 games !!!!

I have no recollection of Tilly being a catalyst to the Dees improvement while he was playing for us. IOW we made a poor decision to pay him so much.

We were not screwed by him we made that decision and Rjay has now admitted he didn't describe GWS decision correctly.
What we paid Todd Viney  and Earl Spalding  in 1987 when they joined was more realistic for example and worth the money.