Jump to content

Featured Replies

Oliver has some great traits, but if he wants to go beyond being a talented player to being a superstar of the competition he has to have more impact on games. He came in all guns blazing year 1 with his work in close and his vision but he has plateaued. He needs to find another gear and greater consistency to be considered the among the best.

 
1 hour ago, Dr.D said:

Gets better? he is an AA and squad member.How about pointing the fingers on players that are actually [censored] like the McDonald brothers or the coach in Goodwin. And if anyone of the stars should be criticised it should be Viney who got caught holding the ball more time than Goodwin says 'learnings' or 'we gotta get better'

I'll reluctantly entertain you on this one Doc (even though I seriously wish you would just [censored] off to big footy, no offence, but please [censored] off to big footy). Do you seriously think Clarry has reached his ceiling? Do you not believe that he has the capacity to get any better?

I'd actually prefer it if you didn't answer and just [censored] off to big footy instead, but I'm sure you will come up with a way to avoid the the question at hand and just keep polluting these boards with your toxic garbage. I hope you feel satisfied with your life in that role. 

54 minutes ago, A F said:

It's not even a discussion for me. The guy is an out and out star. 

Would you trade him to Essendon for Zach Merrett and pick 6?

 
28 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Don't think that last part is fair at all. I think most of our coaches rate him as the greatest prospect they've ever encountered, according to just about everything I've ever read. But they've been driving him hard since day one, I think starting with McCartney (and to date he has responded well to that). I'll see if I can dig up an old training report - which if my memory is correct Nat Jones and others were tackling him harder and niggling him more than anyone else, trying to [censored] him off and testing his nerve.

He clearly performed better than Viney this year but I think they've set a high bar based on what he is capable of and expecting that he gets better. That's okay: just tell him that. Goodwin recently said he was the hardest working player he's ever come across - and I assume that means both throughout his playing and coaching career. Which is huge.

He was also a staunch defender when Clarry was getting criticized earlier this year. Hardly speaks of our coaches underrating or not appreciating him - just that they're employing tactics for him to get the best out of himself. If he feels that has been too harsh then we pull it in a bit - maybe like Trac - and tell him how important he is to us and what he can do to be better. Then give him that massive contract he wants and deserves. 

But hang on mate. If you agree that he clearly performed better than Viney and yet polled less FD votes, you're essentially backing up what I've said here. The coaches underrated him. McCartney is no longer there. Interesting. And despite Viney having a weaker season, you're saying the coaches still gave him more votes than Oliver because Oliver is capable of more? It doesn't make sense.

24 minutes ago, drdrake said:

I'm not a fan of trading him and I don't think we will, but losing a player isn't life or death of a team.  Buddy Franklin is an absolute super star he was at his peak when he left Hawthorn, he is a once in a generation type player not Oliver, Hawthorn got pick 19 ish for him and went on to win a flag with out him.  Oliver is a good midfielder, no match winner but can impact games, his biggest issue he just doesn't hurt teams by foot.  Doesn't kick goals, doesn't amass a big total of metres gained and I'm sure someone will correct me runs at about 70% handball to kick ratio.  He can be replaced like any other player on our list, we don't have any super stars.

Oliver will be at Melbourne next year. I'm talking about the end of 2021.

And Oliver and Franklin are not comparable. If Hawthorn had lost Sam Mitchell then I'd agree with you. They also wouldn't have won all those flags without him.

This post is an example of how Melbourne fans underrate Oliver. He hasn't missed a match since his first season. If he was out of our midfield, you'd see a distinctly weaker outfit.

25 minutes ago, binman said:

I guess it depends on how you are defining 'best''.

Schwarz was the best player i have seen at the dees outside of Flower, prior to his firsts knee injury. The only player to come close is Trac this year. So i would have Schwarz at the top of my list of bets platers at the dees in the last 33 years.

And even after his two knee injuries he was a star for us. And incredibly consistent. Barely played a poor game. Easy to forget he won the bluey in 1999 in a bloody goody team.

Don't get me wrong i agree Oliver is a star but personally i have Stynes, Nieta and max ahead of Oliver too and to be honest also, after this year Tracc too. That was the best season of football from a dees player since Nieta's in 1995.

Each to their own, mate. As I've said above, you'll notice how good Oliver is when he's not there, but because he plays every match, it's pretty hard to see.

I loved Schwarta. A unique talent, but I rate midfielders higher. Midfielders win premierships.

22 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I'm not reading every post in here but have I missed something? What has Viney said (or are you referring to the comments made when he re-signed about the players needing to get the best out of themselves?)

Yep, that's what I'm referring to. He said "just because of the way I have played my football and I suppose my attitude towards team-first football I have always been drawn to performing team roles." He might think it's team first to play rugby and Goodwin may love it, but 8 years in the system and still making our midfield run into each other.

Look everyone's tradable.

My starting position is Cripps, Weitering, McKay, Walsh, pick 7 and 2021 1st rounder.  Every day they don't accept add another player.

Am i doing it right Adrian?


Midfielders collectively win premierships. 

Players like dusty and trac win grand finals.

If the club had no choice but to trade on of Oliver or trac who do you think they would trade?

16 minutes ago, Better days ahead said:

Would you trade him to Essendon for Zach Merrett and pick 6?

No, no I wouldn't.

3 minutes ago, A F said:

 

Oliver will be at Melbourne next year. I'm talking about the end of 2021.

And Oliver and Franklin are not comparable. If Hawthorn had lost Sam Mitchell then I'd agree with you. They also wouldn't have won all those flags without him.

This post is an example of how Melbourne fans underrate Oliver. He hasn't missed a match since his first season. If he was out of our midfield, you'd see a distinctly weaker outfit.

Do you know what the difference between Mitchell and Oliver is, one can kick, one can't.

Buddy was an absolute superstar, all im highlighting is you can lose your stars and get over it.

Give me Buddy Franklin over any midfielder any day of the week.  

 
9 minutes ago, drdrake said:

Do you know what the difference between Mitchell and Oliver is, one can kick, one can't.

Buddy was an absolute superstar, all im highlighting is you can lose your stars and get over it.

Give me Buddy Franklin over any midfielder any day of the week.  

We'll agree to disagree then.

7 minutes ago, A F said:

No, no I wouldn't.

Neither would I. Clarry is on the verge of becoming an absolute A-grader. Keeping him is simply non-negotiable


The issue with Oliver is the way he takes the ball stationary or going backwards and gives off a 1m handball to a flat footed player actually hurts the team.

He has to improve his fundamentals - using his legs to drive forward, lifting his arms and drawing tackles before disposing, handballing to space and knowing when to kick and take ground.

He hasn’t been developed properly. So instead of becoming a superstar he’s just a solid A grade mid. It’s not too late to fix it, but it needs buy in from everyone involved. 

4 minutes ago, A F said:

But hang on mate. If you agree that he clearly performed better than Viney and yet polled less FD votes, you're essentially backing up what I've said here. The coaches underrated him. McCartney is no longer there. Interesting. And despite Viney having a weaker season, you're saying the coaches still gave him more votes than Oliver because Oliver is capable of more? It doesn't make sense.

Not like that at all mate. Just saying they likely set a higher bar for Clarry and expect more. Coaches put it on him and then judge his performance accordingly (I would probably be [censored] too, being held to a higher standard).

Though we all do the exact same thing on here - just check the D'land votes throughout the year (and also my advocacy of Clarry when he doesn't get a mention - clearly ahead of those getting votes). Viney does what he is capable of with in line with direct orders and gets the votes.

Clayton is capable of much much more than Jack and is being encouraged to reach his potential. It makes sense to me, especially in terms of our bnf voting system, where each player is awarded points out of ten for each game. 

26 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Not like that at all mate. Just saying they likely set a higher bar for Clarry and expect more. Coaches put it on him and then judge his performance accordingly (I would probably be [censored] too, being held to a higher standard).

Though we all do the exact same thing on here - just check the D'land votes throughout the year (and also my advocacy of Clarry when he doesn't get a mention - clearly ahead of those getting votes). Viney does what he is capable of with in line with direct orders and gets the votes.

Clayton is capable of much much more than Jack and is being encouraged to reach his potential. It makes sense to me, especially in terms of our bnf voting system, where each player is awarded points out of ten for each game. 

Skuit, by all means encourage Viney but I'm not quite sure when the B & F at a footy club became an encouragement award

 

1 hour ago, Better days ahead said:

Would you trade him to Essendon for Zach Merrett and pick 6?

In a heart beat! 

56 minutes ago, A F said:

No, no I wouldn't.

I would. If Carlton or any other team make a silly offer we should listen.

I think it’s dangerous for a club to think someone is untradable. Leads to poor list management decisions. I bet Collingwood wish they could have their time over again with Grundy. 7 years on big coin. He’s had a pretty indifferent season and now it looks like they’ll have to shed one of De Goey or Treloar because of cap issues when they could have had 2 first round picks from Adelaide. Same with Daniher last year. Absolute stupidity by Essendon not to trade him.

Clayton is a super player no question and I’d hate to lose him but he finished 5th in the BnF. He hasn’t had a great year by his standards and I don’t think that’s just because of coaching (although it definitely plays a part).

I’d offer him 3 years on top dollar. If we’re successful in that time he’ll re-sign and if we’re not then we should accommodate his wishes and allow him to find a new home if that’s what he wants to do.


1 hour ago, Demon Disciple said:

Neither would I. Clarry is on the verge of becoming an absolute A-grader. Keeping him is simply non-negotiable

He's not on the verge of becoming an A grader. He is an A grader. He's elite in all the categories that matter for an inside mid.

56 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Not like that at all mate. Just saying they likely set a higher bar for Clarry and expect more. Coaches put it on him and then judge his performance accordingly (I would probably be [censored] too, being held to a higher standard).

Though we all do the exact same thing on here - just check the D'land votes throughout the year (and also my advocacy of Clarry when he doesn't get a mention - clearly ahead of those getting votes). Viney does what he is capable of with in line with direct orders and gets the votes.

Clayton is capable of much much more than Jack and is being encouraged to reach his potential. It makes sense to me, especially in terms of our bnf voting system, where each player is awarded points out of ten for each game. 

I don't think rating him differently to others despite providing a better output is the way to get the best results out of players. That's just my opinion though.

13 minutes ago, Better days ahead said:

I would. If Carlton or any other team make a silly offer we should listen.

I think it’s dangerous for a club to think someone is untradable. Leads to poor list management decisions. I bet Collingwood wish they could have their time over again with Grundy. 7 years on big coin. He’s had a pretty indifferent season and now it looks like they’ll have to shed one of De Goey or Treloar because of cap issues when they could have had 2 first round picks from Adelaide. Same with Daniher last year. Absolute stupidity by Essendon not to trade him.

Clayton is a super player no question and I’d hate to lose him but he finished 5th in the BnF. He hasn’t had a great year by his standards and I don’t think that’s just because of coaching (although it definitely plays a part).

I’d offer him 3 years on top dollar. If we’re successful in that time he’ll re-sign and if we’re not then we should accommodate his wishes and allow him to find a new home if that’s what he wants to do.

Oliver is a better player than Merrett. So let's just start with that.

As for the idea that no player is untradeable. Sure, every player is tradeable then, but if you want to win flags you can't be trading away your very best players.

Midfielders are vital to winning premierships, so I don't particularly rate the idea that Franklin leaving Hawthorn didn't impact on their flag successes. Well, great, but he's not a midfielder. Franklin wouldn't get it without Sam Mitchell extracting. 


16 minutes ago, A F said:

I don't think rating him differently to others despite providing a better output is the way to get the best results out of players. That's just my opinion though.

I don't agree or disagree. But it's a fact of life that we're all judged according to what we're capable of, rather than in exact comparison to our peers. A couple university degrees taught me this pretty quickly, and I had to work much harder than most to maintain my grades. 

1 minute ago, Vineytime said:

801169A2-FE58-4C64-9F9C-2561E7926B80.png

Gary knows nothing and I can guarantee you that Melb and Carlton have spoken 

 
1 hour ago, Better days ahead said:

Would you trade him to Essendon for Zach Merrett and pick 6?

Well no, but yes


Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

Featured Content

  • GAMEDAY: Collingwood

    It's Game Day and the Demons face a monumental task as they take on the top-of-the-table Magpies in one of the biggest games on the Dees calendar: the King's Birthday Big Freeze MND match. Can the Demons defy the odds and claim a massive scalp to keep their finals hopes alive?

      • Haha
    • 719 replies
  • CASEY: Collingwood

    It was freezing cold at Mission Whitten Stadium where only the brave came out in the rain to watch a game that turned out to be as miserable as the weather.
    The Casey Demons secured their third consecutive victory, earning the four premiership points and credit for defeating a highly regarded Collingwood side, but achieved little else. Apart perhaps from setting the scene for Monday’s big game at the MCG and the Ice Challenge that precedes it.
    Neither team showcased significant skill in the bleak and greasy conditions, at a location that was far from either’s home territory. Even the field umpires forgot where they were and experienced a challenging evening, but no further comment is necessary.

    • 4 replies
  • NON-MFC: Round 13

    Follow all the action from every Round 13 clash excluding the Dees as the 2025 AFL Premiership Season rolls on. With Melbourne playing in the final match of the round on King's Birthday, all eyes turn to the rest of the competition. Who are you tipping to win? And more importantly, which results best serve the Demons’ finals aspirations? Join the discussion and keep track of the matches that could shape the ladder and impact our run to September.

      • Thanks
      • Like
    • 216 replies
  • PREVIEW: Collingwood

    Having convincingly defeated last year’s premier and decisively outplayed the runner-up with 8.2 in the final quarter, nothing epitomized the Melbourne Football Club’s performance more than its 1.12 final half, particularly the eight consecutive behinds in the last term, against a struggling St Kilda team in the midst of a dismal losing streak. Just when stability and consistency were anticipated within the Demon ranks, they delivered a quintessential performance marked by instability and ill-conceived decisions, with the most striking aspect being their inaccuracy in kicking for goal, which suggested a lack of preparation (instead of sleeping in their hotel in Alice, were they having a night on the turps) rather than a well-rested team. Let’s face it - this kicking disease that makes them look like raw amateurs is becoming a millstone around the team’s neck.

    • 1 reply
  • CASEY: Sydney

    The Casey Demons were always expected to emerge victorious in their matchup against the lowly-ranked Sydney Swans at picturesque Tramway Oval, situated in the shadows of the SCG in Moore Park. They dominated the proceedings in the opening two and a half quarters of the game but had little to show for it. This was primarily due to their own sloppy errors in a low-standard game that produced a number of crowded mauls reminiscent of the rugby game popular in old Sydney Town. However, when the Swans tired, as teams often do when they turn games into ugly defensive contests, Casey lifted the standard of its own play and … it was off to the races. Not to nearby Randwick but to a different race with an objective of piling on goal after goal on the way to a mammoth victory. At the 25-minute mark of the third quarter, the Demons held a slender 14-point lead over the Swans, who are ahead on the ladder of only the previous week's opposition, the ailing Bullants. Forty minutes later, they had more than fully compensated for the sloppiness of their earlier play with a decisive 94-point victory, that culminated in a rousing finish which yielded thirteen unanswered goals. Kicks hit their targets, the ball found itself going through the middle and every player made a contribution.

    • 1 reply
  • REPORT: St. Kilda

    Hands up if you thought, like me, at half-time in yesterday’s game at TIO Traeger Park, Alice Springs that Melbourne’s disposal around the ground and, in particular, its kicking inaccuracy in front of the goals couldn’t get any worse. Well, it did. And what’s even more damning for the Melbourne Football Club is that the game against St Kilda and its resurgence from the bottomless pit of its miserable start to the season wasn’t just lost through poor conversion for goal but rather in the 15 minutes when the entire team went into a slumber and was mugged by the out-of-form Saints. Their six goals two behinds (one goal less than the Demons managed for the whole game) weaved a path of destruction from which they were unable to recover. Ross Lyon’s astute use of pressure to contain the situation once they had asserted their grip on the game, and Melbourne’s self-destructive wastefulness, assured that outcome. The old adage about the insanity of repeatedly doing something and expecting a different result, was out there. Two years ago, the score line in Melbourne’s loss to the Giants at this same ground was 5 goals 15 behinds - a ratio of one goal per four scoring shots - was perfectly replicated with yesterday’s 7 goals 21 behinds. 
    This has been going on for a while and opens up a number of questions. I’ll put forward a few that come to mind from this performance. The obvious first question is whether the club can find a suitable coach to instruct players on proper kicking techniques or is this a skill that can no longer be developed at this stage of the development of our playing group? Another concern is the team's ability to counter an opponent's dominance during a run on as exemplified by the Saints in the first quarter. Did the Demons underestimate their opponents, considering St Kilda's goals during this period were scored by relatively unknown forwards? Furthermore, given the modest attendance of 6,721 at TIO Traeger Park and the team's poor past performances at this venue, is it prudent to prioritize financial gain over potentially sacrificing valuable premiership points by relinquishing home ground advantage, notwithstanding the cultural significance of the team's connection to the Red Centre? 

    • 4 replies