On 06/09/2020 at 01:49, old dee said:

 

A bloke called Hogan left, he kicked nearly 50 goals in about 16 games. The forward line has never been the same since. Without his goals some of the young guys of 2018 have been shown up, they where riding on his 50 goals coat tails. Tmac got injured and has never been the same since, we simply don’t have that good of a list. 

Good points the forward line is our biggest weakness, both defence and attack wise. Need Weideman to still go to another level.

I refuse to accept the notion that we are destined to fail. That it’s in our DNA. It’s not. That’s just a fatalistic excuse. There is absolutely no reason why Melbourne can’t be successful. If we believe otherwise we may as well fold up the club now and we all go our separate ways. I don’t want to do that.

The single most important quality required to succeed is belief. It’s non-negotiable. If you don’t believe you can win you won’t. It’s that simple.

Work ethic and effort. It’s why we lost to Sydney. If you want to succeed you can’t pick and choose. You have to bring it every game.

Perseverance. All teams have off days but great teams find a way to win. They keep going no matter the odds.

I don’t think our talent is too bad. I believe we can be top 4 (although we badly need a key forward, Weid is a No.2) Systems wise I think we fall down because players just don’t work hard enough.

So what’s to be done?

Find a leader. Somebody who embodies the above and inspires others to follow. Someone like Alastair Clarkson. There may be others out there. I don’t know.

We need to find more leaders on the pitch. Max and May seem to be the only 2 that can consistently impose themselves on games and make demands of others. Viney at times. Maybe Oliver. Its slim pickings after that. Maybe some of the youngsters but it’s too early to tell.

And if people insist on talking about DNA why not talk about 6 premierships in 8 years, Norm Smith, Ron Barassi, the great teams of the past. How about trying to instill some of that DNA?

Saw some of this last night. I hate tosay it but Brereton is 100% right. We build up hope then dash it down more than any other side in the comp. This has been going on since 1964.

I didn't see this, but at the end of the day, they are being paid to talk footy, so will talk for the sake of talking. 

I had to turn off the Sydney game's commentary because I can't stand to hear Dermot, who for most of the game, was completely off with his analysis and loves to hear the sound of his own voice. He's got such a limited understanding of the modern game that it's embarrassing.

Whilst I think our playing list does have a mental fragility about it, the list is as others have said, not mature enough yet to bring the required consistency and take the next step. Nor does it have the required balance.

If you look around the league, every single team has had an off game or two. Inconsistency is seemingly a larger motif than in any year I can recall.

I think 'analysis' of culture is a BS, weak and shallow cop out for some people trying to examine inconsistency of performance.

 

  On 06/09/2020 at 02:03, loges said:

Good points the forward line is our biggest weakness, both defence and attack wise. Need Weideman to still go to another level.

We won 2 finals plus a number of games without hogan as injured .. don’t discount he was very good & missing him & whilst May has been great & AA form we should have gone with our pick 6 to get King 

  On 05/09/2020 at 14:47, Hogan2014 said:

Hardwick somehow changed the culture at the tigers.. they lost the last game in 2016 by over 100 points. 

No he didn't. Thats becoming another urban myth.

It was changed by Peggy O'Neil and Brendan Gale. and they brought in Neil Balme and the Board remained stable. Brought in Caracella and had a top footiy manager in Dan Richardson

Hardwick showed he wasn't up to it and change had to come from elsewhere. He showed his true spots in recent events this year.

They had the talent and Hardwick needed to change.

The biggest change they made was getting a good sports psychologist imo.....i linked this few posts back but read through this article and see if you get the similarity of our clubs current position.  It is an absolute no brainer to at least try something outside the box.  Mindfulness is the difference between a lot of these teams.  Adelaide also point out what a "bad" mindfulness camp can do.  We need complete honesty from our playing list.  If Goodwin and Gawn  comments is the standard and they praise half hearted efforts, we will be satisfied with half hearted efforts.  We soooooooo need to get real.  Link to article below.

https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/mindfulness-was-a-key-factor-in-richmonds-grand-final-victory-20171002-gysjwv.html

 

Plenty of well constructed arguments for all sides on this topic. Interesting comment from Ken Hinkley today " all sides are struggling to play consistently due to the compressed season".

  On 06/09/2020 at 02:02, NeveroddoreveN said:

We are not all that different to Richmond in a lot of ways....older article but i think this type honesty is what we need to start.

https://www.smh.com.au/opinion/mindfulness-was-a-key-factor-in-richmonds-grand-final-victory-20171002-gysjwv.html

Roos and his wife Tami had this going at the Dees.   It fell by the wayside when they left.  Individual players have recently talked about (Viney, Petracca) about their 'calming' pre game routines.

I think we are very different than Richmond when it comes to 'midfulness'.  They had a coach and FD led 'mindfulness' program for not only pre-game but also in-game techniques.  We have players trying to find their own method.  Chalk and cheese.

That the Roos' program wasn't replaced when they left suggests that Goodwin and Mahoney aren't fans of a 'mindfulness' program and we are unlikely to do what Balme and Hardwick did. 

  On 06/09/2020 at 02:09, A F said:

I didn't see this, but at the end of the day, they are being paid to talk footy, so will talk for the sake of talking. 

I had to turn off the Sydney game's commentary because I can't stand to hear Dermot, who for most of the game, was completely off with his analysis and loves to hear the sound of his own voice. He's got such a limited understanding of the modern game that it's embarrassing.

Whilst I think our playing list does have a mental fragility about it, the list is as others have said, not mature enough yet to bring the required consistency and take the next step. Nor does it have the required balance.

If you look around the league, every single team has had an off game or two. Inconsistency is seemingly a larger motif than in any year I can recall.

I think 'analysis' of culture is a BS, weak and shallow cop out for some people trying to examine inconsistency of performance.

 

Really enjoy your posts AF. Re Brereton he did say first 5 minutes "Sydney have just walked through several tackles already, I'd have the runner out".

  On 06/09/2020 at 02:09, A F said:

I didn't see this, but at the end of the day, they are being paid to talk footy, so will talk for the sake of talking. 

I had to turn off the Sydney game's commentary because I can't stand to hear Dermot, who for most of the game, was completely off with his analysis and loves to hear the sound of his own voice. He's got such a limited understanding of the modern game that it's embarrassing.

Whilst I think our playing list does have a mental fragility about it, the list is as others have said, not mature enough yet to bring the required consistency and take the next step. Nor does it have the required balance.

If you look around the league, every single team has had an off game or two. Inconsistency is seemingly a larger motif than in any year I can recall.

I think 'analysis' of culture is a BS, weak and shallow cop out for some people trying to examine inconsistency of performance.

 

“Nothing to see hear, We are in Control..”

  On 06/09/2020 at 02:37, Lucifer's Hero said:

Roos and his wife Tami had this going at the Dees.   It fell by the wayside when they left.  Individual players have recently talked about (Viney, Petracca) about their 'calming' pre game routines.

I think we are very different than Richmond when it comes to 'midfulness'.  They had a coach and FD led 'mindfulness' program for not only pre-game but also in-game techniques.  We have players trying to find their own method.  Chalk and cheese.

That the Roos' program wasn't replaced when they left suggests that Goodwin and Mahoney aren't fans of a 'mindfulness' program and we are unlikely to do what Balme and Hardwick did. 

Tami was not particularly specialising in sports psychology and agreed it sounds quite different to Richmond.

Goody may not be a fan but i will extract this piece and say definitively we need this and it starts from the coach...i think you could change coaches names and it still makes perfect sense of where Richmond were at post 2016...and where we are currently.

At the end of the 2016 season, coach Damien Hardwick reviewed his and the team's performance. One reaction to the horror of 2016 could have been denial or avoidance of reality, perhaps shifting blame to injuries or other external factors.

Instead, Hardwick reported that he took himself to task, writing down his strengths and areas for improvement. Through accepting and acknowledging the reality of the situation, Hardwick could recognise an over-reliance on micromanagement and a failure to listen to others when times were tough. By recognising this, he was then able to change and improve his coaching style.

  On 05/09/2020 at 15:04, Deemented Are Go! said:

Meh.
Dermie is a punch drunk alpha who absolutely and openly loathes the MFC and will take every opportunity to sink the boots in, rain or shine. 

King is a statistics sycophant who flip flops with his convictions depending on the tide of public opinion like a chameleon. 

And Robbo, with his penchant for RTDs, can hardly string a sentence together, let alone form a coherent argument. He’s lucky to get his pants on each day. 
 

Whilst there is likely truth in their observations, I’m not placing too much weight on what these muppets opine. 
 

Dermie doesn't loathe us. He loathes Essendon. He simply holds us in contempt.

  On 06/09/2020 at 02:43, NeveroddoreveN said:

Tami was not particularly specialising in sports psychology and agreed it sounds quite different to Richmond.

Goody may not be a fan but i will extract this piece and say definitively we need this and it starts from the coach...i think you could change coaches names and it still makes perfect sense of where Richmond were at post 2016...and where we are currently.

At the end of the 2016 season, coach Damien Hardwick reviewed his and the team's performance. One reaction to the horror of 2016 could have been denial or avoidance of reality, perhaps shifting blame to injuries or other external factors.

Instead, Hardwick reported that he took himself to task, writing down his strengths and areas for improvement. Through accepting and acknowledging the reality of the situation, Hardwick could recognise an over-reliance on micromanagement and a failure to listen to others when times were tough. By recognising this, he was then able to change and improve his coaching style.

Thanks. 

As much as I wish we would do something similar to Richmond I just don't think our coach and FD see the need so very much doubt it will happen.

  On 06/09/2020 at 02:43, NeveroddoreveN said:

Tami was not particularly specialising in sports psychology and agreed it sounds quite different to Richmond.

Goody may not be a fan but i will extract this piece and say definitively we need this and it starts from the coach...i think you could change coaches names and it still makes perfect sense of where Richmond were at post 2016...and where we are currently.

At the end of the 2016 season, coach Damien Hardwick reviewed his and the team's performance. One reaction to the horror of 2016 could have been denial or avoidance of reality, perhaps shifting blame to injuries or other external factors.

Instead, Hardwick reported that he took himself to task, writing down his strengths and areas for improvement. Through accepting and acknowledging the reality of the situation, Hardwick could recognise an over-reliance on micromanagement and a failure to listen to others when times were tough. By recognising this, he was then able to change and improve his coaching style.

Says a lot, don't expect the same from Goodwin. He knows he is right now.

Edited September 6, 20204 yr by old dee

We don't see the need for a kicking coach or forwards coach either.....Simon will be gone from head coaching roles if he does not get real.  Keep treating anything he does not like hearing as "noise" and he will will not prosper.  Seems to be a zero acceptance policy which is just fraught with delusion.  Accept the positives and ignore the negatives....continue on Demons!

No wonder we get dished out rubbish quite often.  There is so little acceptance or accountability.  If small business was run like this they just die.  This is a large corporation. Are we ever going to start accepting that this is not good enough and we just have to change?

 

  On 05/09/2020 at 23:00, Hogan2014 said:

Would be great to hear from Jordan Lewis who come from winning 4 flags plus 3 in a row as to what he saw/felt were the differences in culture between the clubs.. 

I can't read it as I don't subscribe to Herald Sun but this article below was discussed on a podcast I listen to.

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/more-news/building-strong-culture-in-all-areas-within-playing-group-key-to-onfield-success-jordan-lewis-writes/news-story/a57596cac2e5d857fae1409396590560

 

  On 05/09/2020 at 23:45, Undeeterred said:

Salem wouldn't be in the Top 20 at Melbourne for flakiness. To single him out is absurd.

He was talking specifically about players who don't tackle hard enough/have tackles broken too easily

  On 06/09/2020 at 02:42, loges said:

Really enjoy your posts AF. Re Brereton he did say first 5 minutes "Sydney have just walked through several tackles already, I'd have the runner out".

He also said Weideman needed to get to more contests though. It hardly takes an expert to realise we were off from the first bounce and that Sam wasn't making contests. The rest of it was just self indulgent twaddle IMV.

  On 06/09/2020 at 00:17, Engorged Onion said:

I counterpoint Michael Voss.

It's reductionist to link those 2 points to his capacity to coach.

Besides...he's from Colac....anyways

I would much prefer Fagan... who I am sure we all know, came from Melbourne with its lack of sustained success. ,  with a hiatus at Hawthorn, and is known as a renowned educator, rather than 'coach. Which is all about 'guiding' players rather than 'compelling/demanding' players to do things. Just like you can't demand a 14yo to do homework, similar you cannot do it to players who are learning the game (and every single player is learning/refining their game year after year anyway).

Getting some ex player in, because he 'appears' to have been around success, when he was merely ONE single link in the machine is fraught.

 

Did you see Fagan's halftime spray a few weeks ago when Lions were playing North?

  On 06/09/2020 at 02:43, Sir Why You Little said:

“Nothing to see hear, We are in Control..”

That's certainly not a quote from me. 

I'm not prepared to say it's cultural or it's because we grew out of a suburb or some other strawman. 

I did say they do appear to have mental fragility, that's not inherently about culture.

People have talked up May's leadership credentials and rightly so, but where was he when we were being spanked in the second quarter? Perhaps there are other factors at play? Nah, it's all cultural and down to the board that sacked Norm Smith.

Edited September 6, 20204 yr by A F

  On 06/09/2020 at 04:03, A F said:

That's certainly not a quote from me. 

I'm not prepared to say it's cultural or it's because we grew out of a suburb or some other strawman. 

I did say they do appear to have mental fragility, that's not inherently about culture.

People have talked up May's leadership credentials and rightly so, but where was he when we were being spanked in the second quarter? Perhaps there are other factors at play? Nah, it's all cultural and down to the board that sacked Norm Smith.

It is certainly Cultural and has been that way for decades. 
Mental Fragility and timidity were the first discussions i had on here in 2005. 
We are still discussing it now. 
 

That is Culture 100%
We are 18th for tackles in the League 

We do not work hard enough 

That is Culture when it happens year after year

  On 06/09/2020 at 02:37, Lucifer's Hero said:

Roos and his wife Tami had this going at the Dees.   It fell by the wayside when they left.  Individual players have recently talked about (Viney, Petracca) about their 'calming' pre game routines.

I think we are very different than Richmond when it comes to 'midfulness'.  They had a coach and FD led 'mindfulness' program for not only pre-game but also in-game techniques.  We have players trying to find their own method.  Chalk and cheese.

That the Roos' program wasn't replaced when they left suggests that Goodwin and Mahoney aren't fans of a 'mindfulness' program and we are unlikely to do what Balme and Hardwick did. 

It’s a pity we cannot get Roos back!

  On 06/09/2020 at 03:08, Dr. Gonzo said:

He was talking specifically about players who don't tackle hard enough/have tackles broken too easily

Fair enough. My comment still holds on that measure too

There was a tv advertisement a couple of years ago where a man was dressed up in MFC gear and was about to catch a tram then saw some Collingwood fans and looked scared. He might have even scuttled away I can’t remember. But that’s how people see MFC and its fans nowadays. Weak, gutless jokes.