David Schwarz = Joker

[Red and Blue Bloke 20]

Just listening to SEN, Schwartz reckons we are going to come in at 10th at the end of the season.

The Dees I saw at Skilled on Saturday looked better than last year - Moloney's long kicks into the forward line are back, Robbo uninjured, Davey+Brock maturing, Miller looked better, more mobile backline options, more options in the ruck, Jones developing ball magnet, Pickett in his second year (which is always better than the first) at the club, our skilled outside players will get to play outside rather than ball getters (you know who I am talking about).........

I reckon we should have a good year and should be excited - what is this bloke on about? Is his penchant for the Hawks eating his brain? Is he just another of those boofhead media types - I had rated him more than that.

[Demon Rob 2]

The Ox is unfortunately a very dissapointing commentator on SEN.

He shows lots of promise and then just lets us down.

I enjoy listening to him, but he is frustrating.

Just listening to him and his co-commentator on SEN last week go on about cricket against the minnows, and thinking the only cricket the minnows ever played was the world cup every four years, forgetting all the qualifiers they play, and the second tier tournaments they are in.

Maybe he has just had too many birthdays?

Re his Melbourne prediction: maybe he is just trying to not be biased, and his ratings therefor go the other way.

[Yze_Magic 3]

Schwarz just bags us out of his hatred of Daniher and his jealousy of the skipper, Neitz

Shut up Ox, you are embarassing yourself

[Madness 44]

WOOOOOOOOOOO! OX IS THE WORST PREDICTOR OUT THERE, WE'RE GONNA WIN THE FLAG!!!

[Anders 14]

Of course the Ox is entitled to his opinion, but given we finished 5th last year and our youngsters will have improved since then, I'd be interested to know why he thinks we'll finish tenth when most footy commentators have us inside the 8 and knocking on the door of the top 4.

[CHAMP 347]

The Ox is unfortunately a very dissapointing commentator on SEN.

He shows lots of promise and then just lets us down.

I enjoy listening to him, but he is frustrating.

Just listening to him and his co-commentator on SEN last week go on about cricket against the minnows, and thinking the only cricket the minnows ever played was the world cup every four years, forgetting all the qualifiers they play, and the second tier tournaments they are in.

Maybe he has just had too many birthdays?

Re his Melbourne prediction: maybe he is just trying to not be biased, and his ratings therefor go the other way.

This advice from Schwarz contradicts his opinion aired some 3 weeks ago when he said he's had a look at the Demons and "had never seen them so lean and fit". It was his feeling, he said, that they were in for a very big year. Seems he's taken a bit too much out of the practice runs.

[tess 19]

I heard him a month ago saying he thought we'd finish top four......a strange man.

[Johnny Karate 559]

From the (miniscule) info r&bb has divulged all he's said is that we'll finish 10th.

It's his opinion he's entitled to it, even if to some he may seem misguided, he's employed as a media commentator not a Melbourne cheerleader. An admirable character trait of Schwarz is that he's pretty honest with his opinions.

I understand that there are many that believe he is bitter towards Daniher and co so therefore he deserves vitriol, I can only hope those people have supported Daniher through and through and will continue to do so. Those who live in glass houses.

At least he does tend to still help out around the club and isn't a destabilising dial-a-quote influence. Despite his obvious falling out with Daniher, as far as I know he hasn't called for his head in the media ala Carey/Laidley.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Miller looked better,

more mobile backline options,

more options in the ruck

our skilled outside players will get to play outside rather than ball getters (you know who I am talking about).........

While I agree with the general gist of your post RABB, these points seemed interesting to me.

Miller looked better for one match, at a ground we won't play at this year (barring finals). What's more, the touted number 2 CHF is out for 6-8 (yet to be confirmed), which makes CHF a hole for us.

Our backline options are the same as last season, with the exception of Frawley, who is as green as they come, and Bell who still had significant game time last year. You could argue that our backline has become less mobile with the inclulsion of Bizzell.

Our options in the ruck are the same. If healthy, Jamar and White are our match-day ruck department. Last year was identical. The only time our ruck stocks looked bleak was in that last final.

The whole skilled players on the outside/hard on the inside was the way we played last year. And with all this handballing malarkey, I doubt the situation will improve.

Sorry to be disagreeing with you on every point, I don't mean to be contradicting just for the hell of it, I just found some of them interesting.

For what it's worth, I reckon we had a hell of a lot go right for us last season. We didn't lose particularly many important players for big stretches, and those that we did we covered for nicely. Moloney with Jones and Bate, PJ was only intermittently in the 22, Bizzell with Holland, Brown with Bell and Ward, Ferg with a number of different mid-sized players.

IMO we have about 12 players playing that we just cannot expect to make inroads without. White, Rivers, Davey, Pickett, Neitz, Johnstone, McLean, Carroll, Whelan, Bruce, Green (yes Green)... the list goes on. To prove it look what happened when we lost Davey and Pickett late last year. Then look what happened at Geelong when Rivvo went off. For many sides, if they lose 1 particular player, things go to the dogs. Think Brown x 2, Lloyd, Riccuito, Goodes, Judd etc. etc. For us, there are a number of guys who, if we lose, we'll be enormously stretched. I don't mean to sound pessimistic, but we have as much reason as anyone to have a bad year. If everything falls into place, yes, we'll be good again, and I suppose that's all you can do.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

DD,

I think MFC like other clubs will struggle to cover injury to certain players.

FWIW, if MFC are to have a tilt at the flag the following players must be fit Neitz, Rivers,Pickett,White, McLean Carroll, Bruce. If anyone of those seven are out for extend time we re in trouble. Two or more we are taking in water.

While we did not lose important players for long stretches, we got injuries at the wrong time of the year. We carried McLean, Moloney, Sylvia and Miller with extended and protracted OP during the year.

We are in the mix this year no doubt and need to improve on last year. The ingredients are there. It has to come together.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,856]

Whats all the fuss about? So what if Ox tips us outside of the 8? Maybe he's right. On average 2 teams will jump into the 8, and 2 teams will fall out. It could unfortunetly be our year to miss the finals...who knows.

All I know is our pre-season form has been terrible. (The only thing I can hold my hat on is that we've never had a full team in). I've seen 3 out of the 4 games. Not much has impressed me. The Geelong game last week was awful, I'm not sure why people are putting a positive spin on it. Except for positive cameos from Moloney, Miller and Jones we were just plain insipid.

We've got a hell of a lot of work to do to turn around our pre-season form if we're going to be competitive this year.

I don't think 10th is an insane prediction, from what I've seen so far.

[Key Deefender 143]

I was listening to SEN last night and heard Liam Pickering mention that Ox had tipped us to finish 10th but never heard the great man expand on his reasons why.

To my mind there are two takes on it. First is his oft mentioned fall out with Daniher and is therefore running down our chances to spite him. Having seen/heard them talk on TV/radio, there doesn't appear to be any malice there now, if there ever really was. Perhaps though just two professionals making the best of an awkward situation.

AFL history is littered with retiring players falling out with coaches who make the hard call on their careers. I'd like to think the Ox has now got over it, and to be honest I feel he has.

The second take which makes more sense, is the old reverse psychology philosophy. His heart is obviously still with the Demons and I have heard him talk us up over the summer. I don't think he wants us to get ahead of ourselves and while our pre-season has been ordinary so have those of many of the contenders.

I guess the other theory, and that makes an unforseen third take, is that he genuinely thinks we won't make it, in which case, as straight shooting as ever, he's not viewing his old side with rose coloured glasses, unlike other past players in the media. And he is to be respected for that.

His opinion is only that though, an opinion and really carries no more weight than anyone else's. Just that as a high profile former Demon we tend to listen more and perhaps take more notice.

If anyone heard him give his reasons for our expected 10th finish, I'd love to hear them.

[Gouga 570]

In Ox's defence he picked Melbourne to finish tenth when asked to name all sixteen teams in order. First of all how often does anyone get more than a couple positions right? Secondly I've heard many commentators say that the exercise of naming all sixteen teams in order is pointless. It is amazing to see how many people's feathers are ruffled by a pointless prediction.

But for what it is worth these are the reasons Ox named Melbourne to finish out of the eight to the best of my memory:

- No improvement in the backline

- Carroll will struggle with the new hands in back rule

- Holland not getting any younger etc.

- Neitz is a champion but can't do it all himself considering his age

Ox didn't mention our midfield, which looks to be our strongest area for 2007.

As for Ox making these comments because he hates Daniher and is jealous of Neitz, give me a break! David Schwarz is not that pety, although some people on this sight obviously are.

Ox gave his heart and soul to our club. He has earned his opinion even if we don't like it. Compare him to someone like Carey who destroyed a club but thinks he has the right to be critical of those still there.

[bjgc 0]

Schwarz does it every year. At the start of the year he thinks we will be near the bottom, if we win a few games Schwarz will be the first to say that we will win the premiership he goes from 1 extreme to the other. He also said the Kangaroos will make the 8 they will be lucky to not win the spoon so he has not got a clue really.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Schwartz is entitled to his opinion. But you would not put much weight in it because Schwartz specialises in hyberbole and self promotion.

He's a loose cannon in life that would be better suited to mixing with the behaviours of WCE players rather than his lightweight performances on SEN.

[Gouga 570]

Schwartz is entitled to his opinion. But you would not put much weight in it because Schwartz specialises in hyberbole and self promotion.

He's a loose cannon in life that would be better suited to mixing with the behaviours of WCE players rather than his lightweight performances on SEN.

It is one thing to have a go at a bloke's opinion but to try and discredit his character is pretty low.

You have just been more critical of Schwarz then he has ever been of the MFC.

And he'd be better suited mixing with WCE players? What are you saying? He takes drugs? Is in trouble with police? Connected to underworld figures?

In Schwarz playing days was he ever involved in an off-field discretion? The worst I can think of is pushing Sam Newman of the footy show! And if you are referring to his gambling troubles get over it. Schwarz has moved on from that.

Not sure where your contempt for Schwarz comes from Rhino but most of us here will agree he bleed red and blue for our club and deserves more respect on this site.

[gOLLy 401]

good on ya Rhino.....another intelligent comment........amazing good ol Nasher hasnt caught up with you yet.....PFFFFT!

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

It is one thing to have a go at a bloke's opinion but to try and discredit his character is pretty low.

You have just been more critical of Schwarz then he has ever been of the MFC.

Gouga, that would indeed be difficult. Ox has taken it upon himself to be a vitriolic critic of MFC and its public officers for years since his retirement. Some of those aired comments and points of view have reflected poorly on a player who has actually played the game.

In Schwarz playing days was he ever involved in an off-field discretion?

Plenty. He has had a difficult upbringing and that has brought many challenges upon Schwartz especially in his adult life. Some which he has handled manfully some he has not. By his own confession he is still dealing with many of those issues.

I am the first to recognise Schwartz's achievements on the ground. In his first two years at MFC I saw a raw talented footballer who could have been anything.

There has been only three other footballers who excited me more with their potential in their first year Lyon, Farmer and Jako. His 1994 year was astonishing and a great promise of things to come. His fightback from 3 knee injuries took incredible courage and focus. He remodelled his game after the injury and develop more smarts. But his career was cut short by the impact of the injuries.

Unfortunately while often bleeding red and blue on the ground, Schwartz could also be a most belligerent player, a trucculent and undisciplined lair who could abusive to teammates on the ground and thus detrimental to the team's effort. It was that cost him a shot at senior leadership roles at MFC years ago. I am not sure if that was part of the cocktail for him to make slipshod and frequent criticisms of the Club

He has also been a negative influence on a couple of current MFC players and the less involvement he has at the Club on those terms the better.

Its the recurring incidence of lack of judgement which clouds and undermines Schwartz's value at publicly analysing AFL football.

[Gouga 570]

At least this you have acknowledged Schwarz's difficult upbringing, his ability, his courage to overcome adversity (many times over).

I still think you took a cheap shot at Schwarz. but you obviously know a few things most of us don't and I guess a public forum isn't the best place for you to go into detail and substantiate what you know.

Your response to my comment didn't explain why Schwarz would be suited to associating with WCE players? i hope you realise that by making that comment you are putting Schwarz in a very unfavourable (unwarranted) light.

And for what it is worth I have heard Schwarz tlk very favouably about our club on the run home. And who knows, if we finish 10th (which is not what anyone of us wants!) maybe Rhino can start a thread of apology!

[Demon15 0]

At least this you have acknowledged Schwarz's difficult upbringing, his ability, his courage to overcome adversity (many times over).

We've all had adversity to overcome.

The Point RR makes is valid and in my view, the Ox ( and i loved watching him play) is playing a role on SEN as 'the controversial one' and needs to make ridiculous statements from time to time to encourage listeners to call up eg: Angry from Avondale..

In truth, as a commentator and opinionator, he is way out of his depth.

( BTW - I'm not sticking up for RR - I'm sure he can do this for himself)