Poor State of the Game

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

6 minutes ago, AC/DeeC said:

Easy fix - Keep the TV on but turn the volume off. Put the radio on for comments instead. ABC AM are pretty good - my favourite radio commentators are Roy and HG. They used to do great calls of the Grand Final some years ago...

Pity, we shouldn't have to do that.

[Meggs 575]

That Storm v Roosters game last night was super to watch.  I’ve watched more NRL games this year and not just Storm games.  They’ve been really entertaining and certainly more enjoyable for me than all the Dees games so far in 2020.  

[Lou C. Fur 939]

12 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

It all started when Kevin Sheedy had the interchange bench changed in the mid 90’s. that is the root cause.

Other rule changes bought in since then have added to the problem

Agreed Sir Why You Little: there are WAY too many interchanges;

12 hours ago, Hell Bent said:

First thing they need to do which is not even a rule change is stop the ruck nomination and just toss the ball up as soon as the umpteenth gets his hands on the ball.

Will have a huge effect on crowded stoppages and open the game up.  

Agreed Hell Bent: ABOLISH ruck nomination;

11 hours ago, daisycutter said:

bench of 2 or 3 players, no free interchange (yep, zip, nada)

only allow

1. permanent substitution

2. temporary substitution for concussion testing (with time limits)

3. temporary substitution for blood rule (with time limits)

4. temporary substitution for doctor approved medical attention (with time limits)

Agreed Daisycutter: REDUCE free interchange. I would go further:

Reinstate the traditional 19th & 20th man and add a 21st & 22nd man using your (Daisycutter's) rules for player substitution (immediately above). This would help to see the following

* Tired players rest on the forward line instead of the interchange bench

* Reduce players running ability to cover every inch of the ground.

* Increase space for players to kick into

* Dissuade coaches from defensive strategies and steer them to more attacking strategies, to take advantage of player fatigue (like they used to...), other than having the luxury of well rested players coming off the interchange bench and being able to run and defend every part of the ground to create the congestion and poor football (as is seen today).

* Decrease congestion.

* Increase scoring.

* Improve the enjoyment of the game for all.

Less is more I say.

 

 

Edited July 3, 2020 by AC/DeeC

[58er 5,646]

22 hours ago, McQueen said:

They should implement a starting 6/6/6 at centre bounces. 
 

That’ll help increase scoring. 

Won't increase Dees chances of winning based upon 2019 

[sue 8,472]

13 hours ago, AC/DeeC said:

Easy fix - Keep the TV on but turn the volume off. Put the radio on for comments instead. ABC AM are pretty good - my favourite radio commentators are Roy and HG. They used to do great calls of the Grand Final some years ago...

I'd love to do it, but I always find the radio is well behind the visual play on the TV. Am I doing something wrong?

[Lucifers Hero 37,280]

Each quarter being 6-8 minutes shorter is significant.  Without tracking the stats, a lot of goals are scored during that traditional time-on when players tire, their concentration lapses and play opens up. 

Not saying there aren't other problems, just that this isn't a representative season so not sure too much action should be taken based on the low scores.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[deanox 8,762]

12 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Agree with your post, particularly the bolded bit.

Our game vs Essendon last year was high scoring (100+ each) but devoid of all skill.

I strongly disagree with the notion that "more goals = better product".

If there is an issue with the game, it is that a higher proportion of the game is spent in stoppages with a higher proportion of the 36 on-field players within a certain radius (say, 20m) of the ball.

Reducing the number of players on the ground won't fix that. If anything, it could make things worse (there will be fewer options forward of the centre and teams may just try to roll stoppages down the wing until they have a forward 50 stoppage).

Making backwards kick play on won't fix that either. There is no evidence to suggest backwards kicks are contributing to lower scores (indeed, it's the opposite this year) or more stoppages.

IMO, three things that could be done to reduce stoppages:

1. Immediately penalise a "third" player into a tackle. Where one person tackles another to the ground, we often see others jump on the pile. The first player to do that (whether they are on the side of the tackler or tacklee) should be penalised. Keep it to one-on-one on the ground and the onus remains on the tackled player to make a reasonable attempt to dispose of the ball.
2. Remove the ruck nomination rule and permit third man up to come back into ruck contests. This is to our detriment as it weakens one of Gawn's strengths, but it allows clubs to clear the ball from stoppages. It also saves time, removing the need for umpires to slow things down by asking who is rucking. Just get the ball, throw it up, and move on.
3. Tighten the rules around holding the ball. I think we've erred too far on the side of "protect the ball carrier at all costs". I don't agree with the idea of removing prior opportunity, but I also think too many players take it, drop it in a tackle, and the game is allowed to play on. There is scope to tighten that rule without going OTT, I think.

I've been banging on about 1 and 3 for years. You are absolutely spot on. 

 

I do think 16 a side would help because it will make it harder to cover space in zones up field while also covering the D50.

[Diamond_Jim 11,967]

2 hours ago, sue said:

I'd love to do it, but I always find the radio is well behind the visual play on the TV. Am I doing something wrong?

The radio signal is analogue (much faster) while the TV is digital. The difference can be anything up to 20 seconds and sometimes more.

There is a fix if you can be bothered.

Buy a digital radio or connect to the radio through your phone. Using the pause button on the radio you can synch the radio commentary to the TV visual. As the digital radio signal is slower than the analogue you may just luck into a reasonable synch anyway. A cheap bluetooth speaker can be added to improve the audio quality of your phone if desired.)

Each time you turn off the radio you have to do it again unfortunately.

(In the summer I listen to the cricket on a portable analogue radio with the TV muted. You only have to look at the screen if something interesting is happening as you potter around. The difference in the timing is enough to allow a fast bowler to do a complete run up and bowl the ball. For a spinner you can even be two balls in front of the picture.)

Edited July 4, 2020 by Diamond_Jim

[sue 8,472]

25 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

The radio signal is analogue (much faster) while the TV is digital. The difference can be anything up to 20 seconds and sometimes more.

There is a fix if you can be bothered.

Buy a digital radio or connect to the radio through your phone. Using the pause button on the radio you can synch the radio commentary to the TV visual. As the digital radio signal is slower than the analogue you may just luck into a reasonable synch anyway. A cheap bluetooth speaker can be added to improve the audio quality of your phone if desired.)

Each time you turn off the radio you have to do it again unfortunately.

(In the summer I listen to the cricket on a portable analogue radio with the TV muted. You only have to look at the screen if something interesting is happening as you potter around. The difference in the timing is enough to allow a fast bowler to do a complete run up and bowl the ball. For a spinner you can even be two balls in front of the picture.)

thanks, but the problem where I am is the other way around.   I can only get the radio through digital (either through an app or on my digital radio),  and the digital radio is commentary is  behind the TV video.  I guess I could sync them on something like Kayo where I can pause the video and let the radio catch up, but not on the unpausible free-to-air (where removing the unplausible  commentators is most desirable).

[Diamond_Jim 11,967]

37 minutes ago, sue said:

thanks, but the problem where I am is the other way around.   I can only get the radio through digital (either through an app or on my digital radio),  and the digital radio is commentary is  behind the TV video.  I guess I could sync them on something like Kayo where I can pause the video and let the radio catch up, but not on the unpausible free-to-air (where removing the unplausible  commentators is most desirable).

mmmm

that is because it's coming via the AFL website which causes further delay

As you say Kayo seems like the only answer.

You can get the foxtel commentary on kayo by using a Kodi add on. It's discussed on the whirlpool forum but I haven't tried it.

Share your distaste with the FTA commentary

[sue 8,472]

5 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

....

Share your distaste with the FTA commentary

I do so often, probably more than is good for my mental health.

[whatwhat say what 19,477]

1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

mmmm

that is because it's coming via the AFL website which causes further delay

As you say Kayo seems like the only answer.

You can get the foxtel commentary on kayo by using a Kodi add on. It's discussed on the whirlpool forum but I haven't tried it.

Share your distaste with the FTA commentary

you really can't, unless foxtel team are the commentary team

foxtel / kayo take the c7 feed direct for the fta broadcast games - thurs / fri / saturday nights as a rule, plus the sunday arvo at 3.30pm one

foxtel doesn't run a separate commentary crew on the fta games

[Diamond_Jim 11,967]

12 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

you really can't, unless foxtel team are the commentary team

foxtel / kayo take the c7 feed direct for the fta broadcast games - thurs / fri / saturday nights as a rule, plus the sunday arvo at 3.30pm one

foxtel doesn't run a separate commentary crew on the fta games

Thanks.... perhaps it just removes the ads

There is perhaps room for some young wannabes to provide commentary off the TV via digital streaming. Cannot see that describing what you are watching on a TV screen would be in breach of copyright laws.

[whatwhat say what 19,477]

14 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Thanks.... perhaps it just removes the ads

There is perhaps room for some young wannabes to provide commentary off the TV via digital streaming. Cannot see that describing what you are watching on a TV screen would be in breach of copyright laws.

that's how the armchair commentators for cricket got their start

Edited July 4, 2020 by whatwhatsaywhat

[whatwhat say what 19,477]

good piece from jake niall: https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/how-footy-turned-ugly-20200703-p558ps.html

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

Its really simple to fix this  'PSotG'.

Unwind/remove that stinking Bandage that's been applied, to the wound that wasn't;  since back around early 1990's...  the putrid bandage/dressing is infected by years of mal-treatment and neglect,  due to un-qualified practitioners, thinking they knew what's good for us all.

 

Pull that bandage off the wound,  and let natures agents heal the game.

[Maldonboy38 5,997]

Like many other Demonlanders, I am a long time footy tragic and Demon follower. I loved playing footy, watching footy, talking footy. A few weeks back, I found myself turning over to watch some house-flip show from the USA rather than the footy. That's how far footy has dropped as a spectacle.

Although I like ideas such as 16 players on the ground, returning to player substitution in preference to interchange (except for certain things well highlighted by others), incentives for higher scoring, etc... I don't think that is where the problem lies.

There has been a fundamental attitude shift over 4 decades, which began when our coaches began introducing ideas from other sports. Keeping possession is now the number 1. Everything else is a slave to it. So we "switch", do endless short kicks only to end up where we began 6 kicks ago, hand ball in "patterns" until a loose man is created, kick backwards and sidewards, and yes, even have no forwards who become "pressing up midfielders". Why? So there are numbers around the ball so we don't lose a contest and therefore keep possession.

In basketball they throw it around the key until they create an opening. As they do in hockey, soccer, netball and many other rectangle court/arena sports. In our great game, it is this padding, this slowly creating, this strategic cat-and-mouse that is the mind-numbing boredom that exists for 60% of the time.

The AFL can shuffle the deckchairs if they like, but until coaching emphasises the one-on-one contested nature of the game, in which we take risks by hand and foot and trust our teammates down the line in the next context, then our game is stuffed. 

Most of us will remember playing or even having kick-to-kick as kids. We wanted to kick, mark and do fancy footed crap around our friends, all with the risk of being tackled and bumped. Maybe delighting in these simple pursuits would remove the slow strategic strangulating chess game it has become.

If I have to watch another USA house flip show I really am going to puke.

[old dee 22,966]

36 minutes ago, Maldonboy38 said:

Like many other Demonlanders, I am a long time footy tragic and Demon follower. I loved playing footy, watching footy, talking footy. A few weeks back, I found myself turning over to watch some house-flip show from the USA rather than the footy. That's how far footy has dropped as a spectacle.

Although I like ideas such as 16 players on the ground, returning to player substitution in preference to interchange (except for certain things well highlighted by others), incentives for higher scoring, etc... I don't think that is where the problem lies.

There has been a fundamental attitude shift over 4 decades, which began when our coaches began introducing ideas from other sports. Keeping possession is now the number 1. Everything else is a slave to it. So we "switch", do endless short kicks only to end up where we began 6 kicks ago, hand ball in "patterns" until a loose man is created, kick backwards and sidewards, and yes, even have no forwards who become "pressing up midfielders". Why? So there are numbers around the ball so we don't lose a contest and therefore keep possession.

In basketball they throw it around the key until they create an opening. As they do in hockey, soccer, netball and many other rectangle court/arena sports. In our great game, it is this padding, this slowly creating, this strategic cat-and-mouse that is the mind-numbing boredom that exists for 60% of the time.

The AFL can shuffle the deckchairs if they like, but until coaching emphasises the one-on-one contested nature of the game, in which we take risks by hand and foot and trust our teammates down the line in the next context, then our game is stuffed. 

Most of us will remember playing or even having kick-to-kick as kids. We wanted to kick, mark and do fancy footed crap around our friends, all with the risk of being tackled and bumped. Maybe delighting in these simple pursuits would remove the slow strategic strangulating chess game it has become.

If I have to watch another USA house flip show I really am going to puke.

Watch people living off the grid in Alaska. Agree with the rest. Watched 10 minutes of the pies game before half time. Never went back. Tomorrow the dees Better start well or they might suffer the same fate.

[old dee 22,966]

Why is pushing in the back almost never paid?!

[Biffen 12,398]

Quite simply-18 on.

Subs on as replacements only.

No interchange bench.

Once a player is off he is off.

Harden up sweethearts.

[one_demon 826]

We still have the same problem.  There's too many players around the ball. 

Why?.., because that's what the coaches want

We all want the prayers to spread out, but the coaches won't do it.   

So the solution is to force the prayers to spread out.   How?... by having three or four players from each team in the forward fifties at every stoppage. 

It's a new rule that you won't even notice.   All you'll notice is that the players are spread out more.  

Edited July 4, 2020 by one_demon

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

I’d love to see zones trialled.

I know it goes against a lot of what the game is about but it’s the only way to remove all the congestion.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

13 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I’d love to see zones trialled.

I know it goes against a lot of what the game is about but it’s the only way to remove all the congestion.

Oh no.  Why make even more new rules, instead of simply back pedaling to somewhere more familiar.

[one_demon 826]

26 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

I’d love to see zones trialled.

I know it goes against a lot of what the game is about but it’s the only way to remove all the congestion.

Totally agree.   Zones or starting positions brings back the aspect of the game which we all love and that's players spread throughout the field.   I've never heard anyone say they enjoy the congestion of the modern game. Let's get serious and get rid of it!

Edited July 4, 2020 by one_demon

[one_demon 826]

6 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

Oh no.  Why make even more new rules, instead of simply back pedaling to somewhere more familiar.

You'll never spread the players out with small rules changes like 666 or limiting rotations. The only way is to force them to spread out. 

Edited July 4, 2020 by one_demon