POSTGAME: MS02 vs Hawthorn

[Whispering_Jack 30,173]

So, the round up after today

Oskar Baker — selected v Box Hill Hawks
Toby Bedford — played v Hawthorn *
Harley Bennell — injured 
Austin Bradtke — selected v Box Hill Hawks
Angus Brayshaw —  played v Hawthorn
Mitch Brown — selected v Box Hill Hawks
Kade Chandler — injured
Kyle Dunkley — injured
Bayley Fritsch —   played v Hawthorn
Max Gawn —   played v Hawthorn
Mitch Hannan — injured 
James Harmes —  played v Hawthorn
Michael Hibberd —  played v Hawthorn
Marty Hore —  played v Hawthorn
Jayden Hunt —  selected v Box Hill Hawks
Luke Jackson —  played v Hawthorn
Neville Jetta —   played v Hawthorn
Nathan Jones —  played v Hawthorn
James Jordan — selected v Box Hill Hawks
Kade Kolodjiashnij — injured 
Ed Langdon —  played v Hawthorn
Jake Lever —  played v Hawthorn
Jay Lockhart —  played v Hawthorn
Oscar McDonald —   played v Hawthorn
Tom McDonald —  played v Hawthorn
Steven May —  played v Hawthorn
Jake Melksham —  played v Hawthorn
Alex Neal-Bullen —  played v Hawthorn
Aaron Nietschke — injured 
Clayton Oliver —  played v Hawthorn
Christian Petracca —   played v Hawthorn
Harrison Petty — injured 
Kysaiah Pickett —  unavailable 
Braydon Preuss — injured 
Trent Rivers — selected v Box Hill Hawks
Christian Salem — ill 
Joel Smith — injured
Charlie Spargo —  played v Hawthorn
Tom Sparrow — selected v Box Hill Hawks
Adam Tomlinson —  played v Hawthorn
Aaron vandenBerg —   played v Hawthorn *
Jack Viney —   played v Hawthorn
Corey Wagner  —  selected v Box Hill Hawks
Josh Wagner — selected v Box Hill Hawks
Sam Weideman — played v Hawthorn *

* injured in Marsh Community series game v Hawthorn 

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

3 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I find the Commitment and mindset of many MFC Players over the last 5-6 decades to be insulting towards both the club and members

How many Norm Smith Medalists do we have??

We are too soft hearted to a fault, Re our players in this competitive sport.

We make excuses for them far too often over the decades, especially those in close contact with them.  Then the players in our weaker sides accept mediocrity with this sympathy they receive. 

Then these sides stay down for ages, until some tough coach comes along to sort the culture, again.

We, have to stop this,  and we have to expect better from the players.  Just not attack the kids in their first 2 or 3 seasons.

 

It's the mature players we should have to expect plenty from.

Edited March 7, 2020 by MyFavouriteMartian

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

3 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

We are too soft hearted to a fault, Re our players in his competitive sport.

We make excuses for them far too often over the decades, especially those in close contact with them.  Then the players in our weaker sides accept mediocrity with this sympathy they receive. 

Then these sides stay down for ages, until some tough coach comes along to sort the culture, again.

We, have to stop this,  and we have to expect better from the players.  Just not attack the kids in their first 2 or 3 seasons.

 

It's the mature players we should have to expect plenty from.

Totally agree mate. 
The Club has also made some horrendous decisions (Trengove and Grimes Captains FFS)

But to many players over the years were not fit mentally or physically and just enjoyed getting paid 

Burgess has moved the Football Dept into a new existence, i hope the Club is strong enough to embrace it

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Totally agree mate. 
The Club has also made some horrendous decisions (Trengove and Grimes Captains FFS)

But to many players over the years were not fit mentally or physically and just enjoyed getting paid 

Burgess has moved the Football Dept into a new existence, i hope the Club is strong enough to embrace it

Yep, we as a club tend to be too defensive when outsiders critique us, and this is our fault.   We don't learn because we take no notice.

Young captains were a minor blip in poor decisions and non decisions, over 50 + years.

 

I feel thankful we are the right track again, for the first time since the 80's,  when we last tried to turn the tide of this club.  And we got 15 to 20 seasons with some pleasure, even as the ship was slowly slipping backwards once again.

This time it was the AFL who stepped up, to sort us out.  With PJ & Roosy, and onto Goody.  Our board seems to be good.  So time will tell.

 

But how many opportunities have we let sail past us in the 50 + Yrs,  where we could have really established our own REAL identity.

Establishing our identity with our own home base is crucial to our ability to compete, and be established as a Major part of this city.  We are at present Melbourne by name alone.  We are truly homeless,  apart from being the original footy club, and tenant of the MCC.

This is NOT enough for our existence.

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

1 minute ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

Yep, we as a club tend to be too defensive when outsiders critique us, and this is our fault.   We don't learn because we take no notice.

Young captains were a minor blip in poor decisions and non decisions, over 50 + years.

 

I feel thankful we are the right track again, for the first time since the 80's,  when we last tried to turn the tide of this club.  And we got 15 to 20 seasons with some pleasure, even as the ship was slowly slipping backwards once again.

This time it was the AFL who stepped up, to sort us out.  With PJ & Roosy, and onto Goody.  Our board seems to be good.  So time will tell.

 

But how many opportunities have we let sail past us in the 50 + Yrs,  where we could have really established our own REAL identity.

Establishing our identity with our own home base is crucial to our ability to compete, and be established as a Major part of this city.  We are at present Melbourne by name alone.  We are truly homeless,  apart from being the original footy club, and tenant of the MCC.

This is NOT enough for our existence.

Start Winning Finals regularly and we will have that home base built, very close to where we are now, as it should be. 
we should already be in the Lexcus Center But Gutnick ruined that opportunity 

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

1 minute ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Start Winning Finals regularly and we will have that home base built, very close to where we are now, as it should be. 
we should already be in the Lexcus Center But Gutnick ruined that opportunity 

Visionary people is what this club needs...  we have had too many clerical types, accountants and white collar thinkers.  And because of this we have grown smaller, and stagnated.

Anywho, this is about our past, and we are about to embark on the most important season since 1986.   The season after Barassi and Jordan.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

2 hours ago, Sir Why You Little said:

If he is worried about his knee, he shouldn’t play. Injuries can happen just as easily in the goal square in a pack mark situation. 
once you cross the white line....

He needs to get the ball in his hands. 
TMac is a confidence player

right now he is cold, his timing is out

 

2 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Surgery he had in July...he doesn’t even have to jump at the center bounces, just be a follower around the ground to get some easy touches and have some marking contests where he doesn’t have a key defender all over him. 

The forward structure isn’t perfect but Melksham and Fritsch both took opportunities. Tom didn’t look as likely. If he’s barely touched it by half time against the Eagles then he’s pretty much asking for a run in the ruck. 

Sorry guys, but just can't agree. Wing maybe, I mean that's where TMac himself has talked about playing as being a way he has found form in the past, but putting a key forward in the middle of the ground to get beaten in hitouts isn't my idea of how you help a key forward find form and improve his 'timing' in the forward line.

Plus, taking away our best key forward and letting Hurn and McGovern absolutely slaughter us unopposed doesn't seem like great thinking.

 

Edited March 7, 2020 by Lord Nev

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

14 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

 

Sorry guys, but just can't agree. Wing maybe, I mean that's where TMac himself has talked about playing as being a way he has found form in the past, but putting a key forward in the middle of the ground to get beaten in hitouts isn't my idea of how you help a key forward find form and improve his 'timing' in the forward line.

Plus, taking away our best key forward and letting Hurn and McGovern absolutely slaughter us unopposed doesn't seem like great thinking.

 

Feel free to disagree....

[Sir Why You Little 37,046]

26 minutes ago, MyFavouriteMartian said:

Visionary people is what this club needs...  we have had too many clerical types, accountants and white collar thinkers.  And because of this we have grown smaller, and stagnated.

Anywho, this is about our past, and we are about to embark on the most important season since 1986.   The season after Barassi and Jordan.

Nothing happened after 1986 except a few false dawns. Lift your expectations 

No 12 was begot in 1964

No 13 .....

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

11 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Nothing happened after 1986 except a few false dawns. Lift your expectations 

No 12 was begot in 1964

No 13 .....

Yeah, plenty happened after 86.  We started to win on-field,  but started to slip off-field, at the top.  The vision weakened and the where-with-all in people waned.

Getting there is just the beginning.  Its the half way point only, if you will.

 

You don't take the foot off the gas,  in the thinking we've nearly made it,  as all others are snapping at your toe nails.

Melbourne again lost our way, when Barassi finished,  and Seddon moved out of the MFC offices. 

On-field we continued with the incoming tide,  but reality was we had gotten weaker in off-field areas, which had driven the changes.  We let it slip.

...............

No-13 will only happen with a lot of hard work from everyone onboard, driving the ideals and efforts to being the best club, in the AFL.

We are at the beginning of a new effort. lets stick at it. 

 

It wasn't long ago, people were calling for the coaches head on a platter.  It cannot work like that.

Change a major piece, and start again, and again, and again.

Edited March 7, 2020 by MyFavouriteMartian

[deanox 9,927]

12 hours ago, Roger Mellie said:

I hope Bedford overtakes ANB as I cringe when he goes near the ball and fumbles, gets in the way or turns it over. Admittedly, ANB was quite good in patches last night. I know he offers plenty of run and is a coach's favourite, but the sooner Bedford can overtake him the better IMO - he's faster, a better tackler and hopefully won't be as fumbly with the loose/disputed ball. Bedford should also be able to cover as much ground with his tank. 

I think the description of ANB as "coaches favorite" shows personal bias unfortunately (this isn't just you either!). The coach likes him because he runs better than almost anyone and generates lots of chances at goal. The coach picks him because no one else has been able to offer those qualities in that position. When other players go past him, he'll get dropped. 

[dieter 3,325]

One of the things I've taken out of this game is the intensity Il Signor Patracca has brought to his game. As far as I know nobody has mentioned his contribution last night but I simply felt awe at how much more he was involved.  

And Viney was fantastic. I have a funny feeling that if the Injury gods treat us right this year very good things can happen,

[Cards13 9,117]

1 minute ago, dieter said:

One of the things I've taken out of this game is the intensity Il Signor Patracca has brought to his game. As far as I know nobody has mentioned his contribution last night but I simply felt awe at how much more he was involved.  

And Viney was fantastic. I have a funny feeling that if the Injury gods treat us right this year very good things can happen,

Ooh ooh me, I did, match day thread!!

While he wasn’t as prolific as match 1 he looks damaging every time he gets the ball. He does need to maintain the rage from match 1, that is his key challenge as he has virtually everything else now.

[MyFavouriteMartian 572]

18 minutes ago, deanox said:

I think the description of ANB as "coaches favorite" shows personal bias unfortunately (this isn't just you either!). The coach likes him because he runs better than almost anyone and generates lots of chances at goal. The coach picks him because no one else has been able to offer those qualities in that position. When other players go past him, he'll get dropped. 

hard hard worker

16 minutes ago, dieter said:

One of the things I've taken out of this game is the intensity Il Signor Patracca has brought to his game. As far as I know nobody has mentioned his contribution last night but I simply felt awe at how much more he was involved. 

Let's not flatter him, Yet.   He hasn't fired a shot in anger, for premiership points.   Lets wait a few weeks, to see any consistency of efforts.

We can hope he really comes good.

21 minutes ago, dieter said:

And Viney was fantastic.

Amen.

[Deecisive 1,709]

Some good signs in last nights game, but also some of the same old rubbish poor passing and turnovers, going backwards, going across field, some players just dont know how to move the ball quickly.

Luckily the Hawks could not take advantage of our indiscretions.

Fritsch was brilliant, but i would rather he played out of a pocket,

[Dame Gaga 2,453]

5 hours ago, demonstone said:

Just watched it for the first time and there was nothing in it and no cause for conspiracy theories about Melbourne players.

Stop trying to convince yourselves that Jack will get suspended, ya freaks.

There's some guy in China who coughed and sneezed one day and said, no worries, it's just a cold. Now people are brawling in the supermarket aisles over toilet paper. We can convince ourselves of anything if we want.?

[D4Life 2,475]

2 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

 

Sorry guys, but just can't agree. Wing maybe, I mean that's where TMac himself has talked about playing as being a way he has found form in the past, but putting a key forward in the middle of the ground to get beaten in hitouts isn't my idea of how you help a key forward find form and improve his 'timing' in the forward line.

Plus, taking away our best key forward and letting Hurn and McGovern absolutely slaughter us unopposed doesn't seem like great thinking.

 

The idea was if TMac is struggling up forward, if he is okay re toes/feet/knees, throw him in the ruck for 15 mins or on the wing for that matter, so he can get his hands on the ball and find some form!

Then put back in the forward line, rather than let him struggle!

[Willmoy1947 4,090]

6 hours ago, forever demons said:

My opinion of the efort last night jake lever grow some nuts ,all players be like jones and viney ,tracc dump the dumb smile and play footy,tmac was just a chb fluked  a few goals 2 years ago forward being shown up now as the hack he is, best 4 harmes jones viney gawn,the rest can please themselves

 

Woodwork.....

 

 

 

[Willmoy1947 4,090]

I hope that Lockhart if he plays is as fast as what people think he is, because a whisper i heard says he aint......

[At Least I Saw a Flag 5,248]

4 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

 

Sorry guys, but just can't agree. Wing maybe, I mean that's where TMac himself has talked about playing as being a way he has found form in the past, but putting a key forward in the middle of the ground to get beaten in hitouts isn't my idea of how you help a key forward find form and improve his 'timing' in the forward line.

Plus, taking away our best key forward and letting Hurn and McGovern absolutely slaughter us unopposed doesn't seem like great thinking.

 

Barrass says hi ...

[Deemania since 56 6,640]

17 hours ago, Deeoldfart said:

I agree with this deanox.  Kossie adds a completely different dimension.  I thought during the game that he would have been a handy ground level addition when the ball was bombed forward.  Might have snagged a couple, I reckon.

Agree with these observations at the present moment. Whilst we need to further hone our onfield player connections at this point, the flush of newbies has certainly strengthened the team to achieve a higher quality of linked transmissions towards goal - and a dominance of ground space that should be more frequently sought (all wrapped up in the team's mobility criteria). For me, Kossie may well be a key to this mobility; certainly, Lockhardt and Bedford put in efforts to stir the heart against Whoreform and a few more games in real time might favourably tip the balance in the Demons' direction. Our new wingers were also impressive and fit this mobility mix. Spargo was valuable - his tap-ons were first rate. Now we must wait for the older brigade to rollover into a meaner machine of space, run and accurate disposal, forgetting the long-bombs and the static forward readiness that many of these players have exhibited in the recent past. Fritta and The Melk are doing their bit exploiting space options and their preparedness to receive. The result was on the scorecard.

[loges 6,767]

7 hours ago, willmoy said:

I hope that Lockhart if he plays is as fast as what people think he is, because a whisper i heard says he aint......

Can't you judge for yourself?

[Lord Nev 13,512]

8 hours ago, D4Life said:

The idea was if TMac is struggling up forward, if he is okay re toes/feet/knees, throw him in the ruck for 15 mins or on the wing for that matter, so he can get his hands on the ball and find some form!

Then put back in the forward line, rather than let him struggle!

No, the idea SWYL put forward was in the ruck.

As I've said, I don't mind the wing as previously Tom himself has said that sometimes help him get into the game.

But moving our best marking key forward away from the 2nd best backline in the comp when we are still dysfunctional going forward, just so that key forward can lose the hitouts for 15 minutes is not my idea of a successful game plan.

The best way for a key forward to find form is to sort out the delivery and the forward line structure and get the ball to him where he wants it.

 

[Lord Nev 13,512]

7 hours ago, bingers said:

Barrass says hi ...

Tell him I said hi back.

[D4Life 2,475]

15 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

No, the idea SWYL put forward was in the ruck.

As I've said, I don't mind the wing as previously Tom himself has said that sometimes help him get into the game.

But moving our best marking key forward away from the 2nd best backline in the comp when we are still dysfunctional going forward, just so that key forward can lose the hitouts for 15 minutes is not my idea of a successful game plan.

The best way for a key forward to find form is to sort out the delivery and the forward line structure and get the ball to him where he wants it.

 

Yes perfect delivery into forward line would be great. 
My initial point was if TMac is struggling give him a run around in the ruck to get him involved in the game, getting a few touches, the wing was also suggested after the initial post.

Leaving him stone cold in the forward line was the problem being solved. Forward delivery is another to be solved, lowering the eyes seems the answer often suggested, not just bombing kicks and better leading patterns are others. Getting the ball in faster is perhaps another option, before opposition flood. I’m sure there are other options some astute Demonlanders can provide.