Does anyone know if Artic Park ground surface is still shaped like a dome. I remember if you were in the front rows you couldn't see what was happening on the other side of the ground.

Probably good for training the ball going out from a kick between the arcs - there would be a lot of that.

1 hour ago, daisycutter said:

and, importantly, tennis australia

gosch's is the bargaining power

The thing is though daisy, it's a public park. Do we really have any bargaining power? Even if we do stay who's to say we won't still get punted elsewhere for the duration of the Australian Open?

Just now, Rab D Nesbitt said:

The thing is though daisy, it's a public park. Do we really have any bargaining power? Even if we do stay who's to say we won't still get punted elsewhere for the duration of the Australian Open?

yes we have a lease. same as the caulfied race track people have a lease on public land (even though it doesn't include what we are after)

it's an incentive to get vic gov to sort out caulfield objectors (and provide some financial support) in order to support their current favourite, tennis australia, who want access to more space 'over the road' during the tennis and incidentally assist their other favourite collingwood get a second oval (except during the tennis open, which is not much of a sacrifice, being off season and short term). tennis australia and collingwood would be lobbying the gov to "get it done"

Edited 17 hours ago17 hr by daisycutter

The idea that we hold any kind of leverage with Gosch’s is laughable.

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

I find it curious that we have looked at Waverley, and quite seriously yet we dont seem as keen as some suggest. Or we'd be there. We're not. There must be elements that the club understands and gives weight to that tip the scales towards staying put for the present. 🤔🤷

Beelz, that last paragraph is one of the most sensible statements yet made on this issue.

Though got to admit the bar hasn’t been that high of late.

21 hours ago, Redleg said:

Why would you leave where you are, for somewhere that you don't want to be permanently, if leaving takes out bargaining power you might have, that helps you get to where you want to be permanently?

That is the bearing they have on one another, bargaining power.

I get that Redleg and I hope we’re using whatever leverage we have with Gosch’s, but I reckon we’re over egging just how much leverage Gosch’s will give us in relation to government and AFL support for Caulfield (unless you’ve heard different?)

30 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

Beelz, that last paragraph is one of the most sensible statements yet made on this issue.

Though got to admit the bar hasn’t been that high of late.

When you dismiss all the noise its really one of but a very few realities that we can hang a hat on.

We are still at Goschs

We would like to develop a Home at Caulfield

We are NOT at Waverley

That's about it

3 hours ago, beelzebub said:

I understand the desire for a proper home. God knows it's long overdue.

Do you seriously ( not sarcasm ) think The Tip at Dingly drags the elite there ?

Waverley would not particularly advantage the players . It might have some allure for Admin. Admin dont take the field so they must logically come after the needs of the players ?

Is Gosch’s ideal. Of course not. But imho its not driving talent away.

I would think ( pure supposition) that by this season's end we'll know what were doing. Without doubt the wait is frustrating. I don’t for one second give any legitimacy to the rubbish the likes of Betsy propagate but there is obviously some impediment currently. ( and strangely i dont think it's money )

But here we are wanting and waiting. Still.

I find it curious that we have looked at Waverley, and quite seriously yet we dont seem as keen as some suggest. Or we'd be there. We're not. There must be elements that the club understands and gives weight to that tip the scales towards staying put for the present. 🤔🤷

I Agree somewhat as we don’t know what the commercial terms are etc would be great to hear from the club on this, what’s the future with Goschs with Tennis Australia supposedly wanting access during AO, would these see us getting kicked off as its not ideal, Waverley isn’t perfect totally agree but hey hawks won 4 flags, are our training facilities impacting on our ability to attract good talent, going on past history let’s hope we’re not having the same conversation in 5 yrs time

Essendon are really lighting it up in Tullamarine, Since moving to The Hanger

Keep training at Gosch's until Caulfield is Signed and Sealed....

3 minutes ago, 3KZ is Football said:

Essendon are really lighting it up in Tullamarine, Since moving to The Hanger

Keep training at Gosch's until Caulfield is Signed and Sealed....

And West Coast and North are located in same spot for Training and Administration, as are the Saints.

20 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

All good Mr Leg. You seem a bit more confident than myself here.

What if the media skuttlebutt ends up being accurate and the MRC refuses to budge on the reno which will supposedly shut down the track for 12 months? Ie; the MRC doesn't want to close up shop and that's the end of our bid.

Potentially we'll have nothing to show after how many years working on this proposal? Let alone the others that fell through prior.

The idea that they NEED to shutdown the track for 12 months is utter [censored].

5 minutes ago, Grr-owl said:

The idea that they NEED to shutdown the track for 12 months is utter [censored].

Not quite as simple as many of us thought on this issue.

"Yes, building a tunnel under a racetrack can affect the track above, but modern engineering techniques are generally designed to minimize or completely negate these effects. The primary risks involve ground settlement, structural stability during construction, and long-term changes to the ground's water content.

www.tunnelsandtunnelling.com +1

Potential Effects on the Racetrack Above:

• Ground Settlement: The excavation process removes material, which can cause the ground above to settle or sink slightly. If not managed properly, this can create dips or imperfections in the race surface, which is critical for high-speed racing.

• Structural Deformation: The removal of overburden (soil/rock weight) and the weight of the new tunnel can lead to uneven deformation or "uplift" in the ground.

• Vibrations and Noise: Construction, especially drilling or blasting, creates significant vibrations that can affect surface infrastructure.

• Water Table Changes: Tunneling can interrupt groundwater flow, leading to changes in soil stability.

  MDPI +1

Mitigation and Engineering Solutions:

• Deep Tunneling: Building tunnels at a sufficient depth, usually deep within solid rock, can reduce or eliminate surface impact.

• Advanced Tunneling Methods: Techniques like tunnel boring machines (TBM) or jacked boxes are often used to minimize ground disturbance. A "jacked portal" or "jacked box" is often chosen for its ability to avoid disrupting surface operations.

• Ground Monitoring: Engineers use real-time monitoring devices in the tunnel and on the track surface to track deformation or settlement and make immediate adjustments to construction methods.

• Ground Treatment: Before digging, soil stabilization techniques (such as grouting) can be used to strengthen the ground, preventing settlement.

  ResearchGate +4

While construction risks exist, modern tunnels are routinely built under critical infrastructure (highways, railways) with little to no noticeable impact on the surface if engineering standards are strictly followed.

www.tunnelsandtunnelling.com +1"

5 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Not quite as simple as many of us thought on this issue.

"Yes, building a tunnel under a racetrack can affect the track above, but modern engineering techniques are generally designed to minimize or completely negate these effects. The primary risks involve ground settlement, structural stability during construction, and long-term changes to the ground's water content.

www.tunnelsandtunnelling.com +1

Potential Effects on the Racetrack Above:

• Ground Settlement: The excavation process removes material, which can cause the ground above to settle or sink slightly. If not managed properly, this can create dips or imperfections in the race surface, which is critical for high-speed racing.

• Structural Deformation: The removal of overburden (soil/rock weight) and the weight of the new tunnel can lead to uneven deformation or "uplift" in the ground.

• Vibrations and Noise: Construction, especially drilling or blasting, creates significant vibrations that can affect surface infrastructure.

• Water Table Changes: Tunneling can interrupt groundwater flow, leading to changes in soil stability.

  MDPI +1

Mitigation and Engineering Solutions:

• Deep Tunneling: Building tunnels at a sufficient depth, usually deep within solid rock, can reduce or eliminate surface impact.

• Advanced Tunneling Methods: Techniques like tunnel boring machines (TBM) or jacked boxes are often used to minimize ground disturbance. A "jacked portal" or "jacked box" is often chosen for its ability to avoid disrupting surface operations.

• Ground Monitoring: Engineers use real-time monitoring devices in the tunnel and on the track surface to track deformation or settlement and make immediate adjustments to construction methods.

• Ground Treatment: Before digging, soil stabilization techniques (such as grouting) can be used to strengthen the ground, preventing settlement.

  ResearchGate +4

While construction risks exist, modern tunnels are routinely built under critical infrastructure (highways, railways) with little to no noticeable impact on the surface if engineering standards are strictly followed.

www.tunnelsandtunnelling.com +1"

And yet, "While construction risks exist, modern tunnels are routinely built under critical infrastructure (highways, railways) with little to no noticeable impact on the surface if engineering standards are strictly followed."

49 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Not quite as simple as many of us thought on this issue.

"Yes, building a tunnel under a racetrack can affect the track above, but modern engineering techniques are generally designed to minimize or completely negate these effects. The primary risks involve ground settlement, structural stability during construction, and long-term changes to the ground's water content.

www.tunnelsandtunnelling.com +1

Potential Effects on the Racetrack Above:

• Ground Settlement: The excavation process removes material, which can cause the ground above to settle or sink slightly. If not managed properly, this can create dips or imperfections in the race surface, which is critical for high-speed racing.

• Structural Deformation: The removal of overburden (soil/rock weight) and the weight of the new tunnel can lead to uneven deformation or "uplift" in the ground.

• Vibrations and Noise: Construction, especially drilling or blasting, creates significant vibrations that can affect surface infrastructure.

• Water Table Changes: Tunneling can interrupt groundwater flow, leading to changes in soil stability.

  MDPI +1

Mitigation and Engineering Solutions:

• Deep Tunneling: Building tunnels at a sufficient depth, usually deep within solid rock, can reduce or eliminate surface impact.

• Advanced Tunneling Methods: Techniques like tunnel boring machines (TBM) or jacked boxes are often used to minimize ground disturbance. A "jacked portal" or "jacked box" is often chosen for its ability to avoid disrupting surface operations.

• Ground Monitoring: Engineers use real-time monitoring devices in the tunnel and on the track surface to track deformation or settlement and make immediate adjustments to construction methods.

• Ground Treatment: Before digging, soil stabilization techniques (such as grouting) can be used to strengthen the ground, preventing settlement.

  ResearchGate +4

While construction risks exist, modern tunnels are routinely built under critical infrastructure (highways, railways) with little to no noticeable impact on the surface if engineering standards are strictly followed.

www.tunnelsandtunnelling.com +1"

If a little knowledge is a dangerous thing... excessive is positively brain numbing.

As the Trivago bloke might suggest....do I really have to say it again ??

We are not talking anything big. It only supports the turf above it. The Engineering of this is at the lower end of anything hard. Seriously.

Bog standard cut and cover. Done and dusted.

4 hours ago, demoncat said:

I get that Redleg and I hope we’re using whatever leverage we have with Gosch’s, but I reckon we’re over egging just how much leverage Gosch’s will give us in relation to government and AFL support for Caulfield (unless you’ve heard different?)

i haven't heard anyone here overegging it. merely pointing out its existence.

all i've heard here is that having gosch's current tenancy is a form of leverage whilst other parties have stated they want it. that's pretty obvious.

as to over egging who would have a clue, when we are not party to what is going on behind closed doors

hence the ever waiting and the frustration of lack of timely info

Just make the obvious move and move to Casey.

Best and cheapest option.

12 hours ago, Redleg said:

I see it, I hear it, I feel it, I can taste it.

You want a home but you can’t have it

It’s a home base but you can’t grab it

23 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Yeah.. a hoot

Care to illuminate.?

Share what you know perhaps ?

Where are we ...same ol same ol

Otherwise..maybe stfu

I don't know anything about the move or their plans and how far along they are, just like you don't know a damn thing. That's what I find hilarious, that the people on this board think they know more than the people who are organising all this.

I do agree that it sucks we get told nothing though and i feel like it's going around in circles again with no end.

As for the stfu comment, bit much don't you think?

The Glen Eira council have for several years, been lobbying for more open space for team sports, directing a lot of their efforts to open up the vast expanse in the middle of Caulfield race course. The MRC have always wanted to keep the enclosed land just for racing, but allowed the public to use the track for walking or training. I can remember a time when Caulfield in the VFA used the track for a lot other the preseason work.

The point is, this development isn't just about MFC. We are part of something way bigger, and like it or not, the Caulfield trust has been told to free up land. Not just for us but for all community sport. The MRC are broke and needed to sell off their freehold to Mount Scopus, which is still years off and dependent on the school getting the money from the sale of their 3 campuses. Where I live, a local team has 20 junior cricket teams needing grounds to play on, the same with foorball especially now that there are so many women's teams.

No matter who goes to the middle area for recreation will need access or a tunnel. In many other sports setups, the introduction of a major sporting code team to a site draws funding for the development of the site for the whole community to use. The land in the centre of Caulfield needs us, needs to be developed and horse racing cannot monopolise all the area when they only use a fraction of the land

2 hours ago, AzzKikA said:

I don't know anything about the move or their plans and how far along they are, just like you don't know a damn thing. That's what I find hilarious, that the people on this board think they know more than the people who are organising all this.

I do agree that it sucks we get told nothing though and i feel like it's going around in circles again with no end.

As for the stfu comment, bit much don't you think?

I thimk there has been a pathetic amount of misinformation in this thread. It's all mostly BS.