Mahoney: We'll give you pick 2 for Hill and Langdon, deal?

Bell: Hmmm, how about you hang onto your pick 2, take Hill and Langdon for nothing, if you also take Bennell?

 

52 minutes ago, binman said:

I wonder how many people who support us getting bennell supported us getting rid of Watts

I might be needing coffee, but I don't quite get the connection binman?

1 hour ago, TRIGON said:

Might as well face it you’re addicted to palm!

That sounds simply irresistible.

1 hour ago, Redleg said:

That sounds simply irresistible.

I reckon if we picked up Bennell we'd be just about ready to get it on.

1 hour ago, FireInTheBelly said:

I reckon if we picked up Bennell we'd be just about ready to get it on.

Wrong artist. That was T-Rex.

Anyway, I am too busy looking for clues.

Edited August 8, 20195 yr by Redleg

3 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

I might be needing coffee, but I don't quite get the connection binman?

Supposedly we got rid of watts (a sublimely skilled player, who makes good decisions, kicks goals and one of only 2, maybe 3, elite kicks in the team) for 'cultural reasons.

And if we got bennelle (a sublimely skilled player, who makes good decisions, kicks goals and would be one of only 2 elite kicks in the team) we would be getting a player who the suns traded for 'cultural' reasons (and allegedly has not settled down much in WA).

19 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Wrong artist. That was T-Rex.

Anyway, I am too busy looking for clues.

True, however it was covered by The Power Station led by the man himself.

On trading bennelle im not sure where i stand.

On one hand I respect the Intel and view of psd that he remains a massive cultural risk.

On the other hand if he could get back to something near his best he is exactly the sort of player we need. I remember watching him destroy us at the g early in his career and thinking I was watching a player who become the best in the league and a genuine legend. So much talent.

As long as Nev is on our list I'd say this would be worth the risk.

He could not get a better mentor to get him into line in my opinion .

51 minutes ago, binman said:

Supposedly we got rid of watts (a sublimely skilled player, who makes good decisions, kicks goals and one of only 2, maybe 3, elite kicks in the team) for 'cultural reasons.

And if we got bennelle (a sublimely skilled player, who makes good decisions, kicks goals and would be one of only 2 elite kicks in the team) we would be getting a player who the suns traded for 'cultural' reasons (and allegedly has not settled down much in WA).

True, but IMO Bennell has a higher ceiling than Watts if both are fit.

However, neither passes the 'no dhead' test, if we want to apply that. 

I'd be all for getting Bennell if we had some evidence his calves were up to it. Given his history, I can't see that happening. 

Sometimes you have to take a risk on getting a player that appears to be “damaged goods” but with potential upside. I’m not entirely convinced of Bennell but the big thing would be if we’re getting him for nothing the risk/reward factor could be quite high. 

Of course due diligence would be important on hit fitness and other issues. 

11 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

Paul Roos theory - one dhead suppresses the performance of ten others. 

Bull dust never hurt Richmond they pick dusty and Sydney stack, who is the second best player out of Last draft, that sort of thinking is why we pick Lucas cook over Darling, and players like jack Grimes nice guys come last.

55 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

Bull dust never hurt Richmond they pick dusty and Sydney stack, who is the second best player out of Last draft, that sort of thinking is why we pick Lucas cook over Darling, and players like jack Grimes nice guys come last.

So you're all for us to pick up Bennell then? You think he'll come good? Despite apparently having an achillies tendon that looks like the contents of a banh mi pulled pork roll? 

i'd love him to come back and succeed with us but unfortunately i think his body is just not up to it

from all reports he's in a good place psychologically

11 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

So you're all for us to pick up Bennell then? You think he'll come good? Despite apparently having an achillies tendon that looks like the contents of a banh mi pulled pork roll? 

Yes in the rookie draft, u lose nothing, but I think no one will pick him until next years mid season drift if he is injury free by then.

15 hours ago, binman said:

Supposedly we got rid of watts (a sublimely skilled player, who makes good decisions, kicks goals and one of only 2, maybe 3, elite kicks in the team) for 'cultural reasons.

And if we got bennelle (a sublimely skilled player, who makes good decisions, kicks goals and would be one of only 2 elite kicks in the team) we would be getting a player who the suns traded for 'cultural' reasons (and allegedly has not settled down much in WA).

Ah ok. My impression was always that it was more about Watts not being enough of a contested player for Goodwin's style. As much as I've heard he loves a good time, I've never heard one negative thing about Watts' cultural impact.

Even taking what you say as gospel, I wouldn't have thought their cultural issues were comparable.

On 8/8/2019 at 1:21 PM, binman said:

I wonder how many people who support us getting Bennell supported us getting rid of Watts

Yes l wonder too.

Although both have their issues the one thing they had in common was to give you one great game then followed by a string of very mediocre games. God help Bennell if he comes to Melbourne our fickle supporters will  soon be turning on him just like they did with Watts.

On 8/8/2019 at 1:21 PM, binman said:

I wonder how many people who support us getting bennell supported us getting rid of Watts

Bennell is a much better player than Jack 'binman'...

To my mind there is no correlation between picking up Bennell and moving on Watts.

You could argue yay or nay on many grounds but not this one.

Comparing Watts and Bennell is laughable. 

As far as footballing output goes, Bennell has Watts covered by a mile in every aspect of the game. 

 

2 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Comparing Watts and Bennell is laughable. 

As far as footballing output goes, Bennell has Watts covered by a mile in every aspect of the game.

Apart from the fact Watts has played more than twice as many games of course.

17 hours ago, rjay said:

Bennell is a much better player than Jack 'binman'...

To my mind there is no correlation between picking up Bennell and moving on Watts.

You could argue yay or nay on many grounds but not this one.

I wasn't comparing the two players or their relative ability. I'm not having a shot at you rjay, but i get frustrated when posters misinterpret comments. But perhaps i wasn't clear in this circumstance.

I was comparing the rationale for trading in a player that was moved on from a club (the suns) desperate for talent because of cultural reasons and lack of leadership:  well documented off field issues issues, talk he has been a poor trainer and suggestions he has not managed his injuries well. Many of those off field issues surfaced in Perth and it is unclear how well he managed his rehab. What is not in question is he is no leader.

Why would we even think of getting  such a player? The reason is obvious - we desperately need a player with his skills, in particular his elite kicking skills and ability to hit targets inside 50.

The obvious irony is one reason we need those skills so badly is we traded out by far our best kick, decision maker and inside 50 score generator. We traded him, for peanuts, because he didn't fit the culture Goody is trying to build - leaders by example,  and players fully committed to playing AFL (not being distracted by off filed fun and games as Watts has been accused of). A decision by the by that i am on record for disagreeing with but one that i respect and understand

So the correlation is that Goody is trying to build a particular culture - the Melbourne brand- and ships a player because he doesn't fir that culture. It would be remarkably ironic if we were to trade in player that would appear through his actions and time in the game to  be the very opposite of the culture Goody s trying to build.

I'm not saying we shouldn't go after bennell. I'm not sure where i stand. But it would go against everything Goody is trying to do in terms of building his preferred culture.

4 minutes ago, binman said:

I wasn't comparing the two players or their relative ability. I'm not having a shot at you rjay, but i get frustrated when posters misinterpret comments. But perhaps i wasn't clear in this circumstance.

I was comparing the rationale for trading in a player that was moved on from a club (the suns) desperate for talent because of cultural reasons and lack of leadership:  well documented off field issues issues, talk he has been a poor trainer and suggestions he has not managed his injuries well. Many of those off field issues surfaced in Perth and it is unclear how well he managed his rehab. What is not in question is he is no leader.

Why would we even think of getting  such a player? The reason is obvious - we desperately need a player with his skills, in particular his elite kicking skills and ability to hit targets inside 50.

The obvious irony is one reason we need those skills so badly is we traded out by far our best kick, decision maker and inside 50 score generator. We traded him, for peanuts, because he didn't fit the culture Goody is trying to build - leaders by example,  and players fully committed to playing AFL (not being distracted by off filed fun and games as Watts has been accused of). A decision by the by that i am on record for disagreeing with but one that i respect and understand

So the correlation is that Goody is trying to build a particular culture - the Melbourne brand- and ships a player because he doesn't fir that culture. It would be remarkably ironic if we were to trade in player that would appear through his actions and time in the game to  be the very opposite of the culture Goody s trying to build.

I'm not saying we shouldn't go after bennell. I'm not sure where i stand. But it would go against everything Goody is trying to do in terms of building his preferred culture.

I think sometimes the talk of culture is overblown...and can be used as an excuse.

In the end winning is everything.

If Watts went when it was his turn & played consistent football then I think he would still be at the club.

 

The crux of it is, 2 games in 4 years. We're not the team for him. Too high risk. We need reliable and fit players to make us competitive again.

Someone will give him another chance because he's got enormous talent but It won't be us.

 

1 hour ago, rjay said:

I think sometimes the talk of culture is overblown...and can be used as an excuse.

In the end winning is everything.

If Watts went when it was his turn & played consistent football then I think he would still be at the club.

 

I totally agree with the first two sentences rjay and those points are a big factor in why i argued we should have kept Watts.

But not the last. There is no way the only reason we traded him was because he didn't go when it was his turn or wasn't consistent enough.

In fact he was pretty consistent. And proved he had the mettle and leadership to kick clutch goals (the suns and pies games come to mind) - unlike almost every other player on the dees'  list (i literally would only trust Salem to kick a goals after the siren to win a game).

Sure not going in when it is his term was factor but only one of several that together meant he din't fit the Goodwin's culture template.

To be honest, and i'll pout my hand up here, comparisons between Watts and Bennell in terms of culture related to perceived commitment to playing elite football are very unfair to Jack. Whilst he may not have got everything out of his talent this far he has played 170 odd games of AFL. In that time his commitment to training has never been questioned, there was just the one suggestion he didn't commit to his rehab fully (when he went to Bryon Bay in 2017) and really no major off field dramas (i don't count the Oktoberfest kerfuffle as a major off field issue).

Bennell on the other hand has not got anything close to the most out of the talent because his many serious off field issues and lack of effort with training and rehab. 

 

Edited August 10, 20195 yr by binman

2 hours ago, binman said:

 

I totally agree with the first two sentences rjay and those points are a big factor in why i argued we should have kept Watts.

But not the last. There is no way the only reason we traded him was because he didn't go when it was his turn or wasn't consistent enough.

In fact he was pretty consistent. And proved he had the mettle and leadership to kick clutch goals (the suns and pies games come to mind) - unlike almost every other player on the dees'  list (i literally would only trust Salem to kick a goals after the siren to win a game).

Sure not going in when it is his term was factor but only one of several that together meant he din't fit the Goodwin's culture template.

To be honest, and i'll pout my hand up here, comparisons between Watts and Bennell in terms of culture related to perceived commitment to playing elite football are very unfair to Jack. Whilst he may not have got everything out of his talent this far he has played 170 odd games of AFL. In that time his commitment to training has never been questioned, there was just the one suggestion he didn't commit to his rehab fully (when he went to Bryon Bay in 2017) and really no major off field dramas (i don't count the Oktoberfest kerfuffle as a major off field issue).

Bennell on the other hand has not got anything close to the most out of the talent because his many serious off field issues and lack of effort with training and rehab. 

 

Hahaha. 

You're ridiculous. 

I think you need to do a bit more research on Jack Watts and his off-field discretions. He has plenty.

How you measure them up against Bennell's is for you to decide but neither of them are angels. And only one has produced far more on a football field. 

Edited August 10, 20195 yr by stevethemanjordan