I'm sure the Chinese government could supply an app that would tell them where the players are, what the player is searching on their phone for and who they are talking too.

3 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I'm sure you are correct, but I also expect that the players would have an app on their phone for this very purpose. And if they don't, they should have (ie, ASADA should administer the obligation in this way).

I'm not sure I'm correct just guessing ?

 

But i am sure that the issue was that the players didn't correctly update the app that ASADA ghve provided.

They’re all at my place.

None of us know what we’ve taken so reporting in is fairly difficult.

Needless to say I maintain a “ don’t ask - don’t tell”  policy at the lab.

On 11/8/2019 at 11:44 AM, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

The curious bit about this for me is how it happens. I would have thought the "Find My iPhone" feature (which I assume also works similarly for Android phones) just needs to be switched on and the club and ASADA would know where the players are at all times. If that's correct, does this mean players deliberately switch that feature off?

Or maybe I'm just ignorant about how phones work.

Yes comrade, I agree all AFL players must configure their iTunes accounts to be readily accessible by ASADA. Punishment for failing to meet these conditions will be 10 years hard labor in Gil's personal Gulag, which produces small textile goods for his army of foreign nannies who are not subject to commonwealth immigration laws.

Never mind how the bloody phones work, are you familiar with the concept of privacy!? 

13 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Yes comrade, I agree all AFL players must configure their iTunes accounts to be readily accessible by ASADA. Punishment for failing to meet these conditions will be 10 years hard labor in Gil's personal Gulag, which produces small textile goods for his army of foreign nannies who are not subject to commonwealth immigration laws.

Never mind how the bloody phones work, are you familiar with the concept of privacy!? 

Not quite sure what privacy has to do with it. Players have impliedly consented to the ASADA requirements which includes the right for ASADA to know where they are at all times. The implied consent derives from the obligation to abide by the ASADA rules if they want to compete in the AFL system. 

19 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Not quite sure what privacy has to do with it. Players have impliedly consented to the ASADA requirements which includes the right for ASADA to know where they are at all times. The implied consent derives from the obligation to abide by the ASADA rules if they want to compete in the AFL system. 

ASADA have nothing to do with the fine.

 

35 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

ASADA have nothing to do with the fine.

 

My interest is not in the fine per se but the mechanics of how the failure happened given I can't imagine any player travelling anywhere in the world without taking their phone with them. It is possible, of course, that they may be in a remote location without phone/data access, which might require additional care by players to ensure their whereabouts are known to whoever needs to know for what I'll loosely call "ASADA purposes".  

Just now, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

My interest is not in the fine per se but the mechanics of how the failure happened given I can't imagine any player travelling anywhere in the world without taking their phone with them. It is possible, of course, that they may be in a remote location without phone/data access, which might require additional care by players to ensure their whereabouts are known to whoever needs to know for what I'll loosely call "ASADA purposes".  

Players have to give an incredibly detailed whereabouts schedule to ASADA every quarter. It includes a specific hour and location every single day that they must be at. It would be VERY easy to not be able to maintain the requirements that exist. From my understanding, it's not a "we don't know where they are" type of thing, it's more about providing that information for the quarter within the required time frame.

The AFL monitor (and possibly collect on behalf of ASADA) that information, and the AFL are the ones who impose fines, not ASADA.

 

...any comments the Club would/should like to make so we can all  get on with the business, and appoint a new Board, pay a million bucks and fly to Geneva for a holiday.

17 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

Not quite sure what privacy has to do with it. Players have impliedly consented to the ASADA requirements which includes the right for ASADA to know where they are at all times. The implied consent derives from the obligation to abide by the ASADA rules if they want to compete in the AFL system. 

The notion of ASADA having access to personal metadata that can be used to track their whereabouts during the off season is nothing short of horrific.

No-one should EVER have to consent to this as a condition of employment. These kind of conditions aren't even forced upon the highest commonwealth security clearance holders in this country, why the hell should it be for young men who kick a leather ball around for a living?! 

 

Edited November 14, 20195 yr by Smokey

26 minutes ago, Smokey said:

The notion of ASADA having access to personal metadata that can be used to track their whereabouts during the off season is nothing short of horrific.

No-one should EVER have to consent to this as a condition of employment. These kind of conditions aren't even forced upon the highest commonwealth security clearance holders in this country, why the hell should it be for young men who kick a leather ball around for a living?! 

 

I agree that it is extreme, and should be unnecessary as a test should be able to find any variance which is performance enhancing and can be conducted within reasonable time frames I would have thought.

But I am not an expert in drug activities and would rely on WADA who have probably seen all examples of avoidance and use.

These "young men who kick a leather ball around" are richly rewarded for that action (probably more than most "commonwealth security clearance holders") and so have to suffer some extreme privations.

But in reality these things are probably bought in to satisfy the gambling industry who want to eliminate any manipulation of the game.

On 11/12/2019 at 1:48 PM, Youngwilliam said:

I'm sure the Chinese government could supply an app that would tell them where the players are, what the player is searching on their phone for and who they are talking too.

The beautiful part is, the Chinese have already installed this app on a great many Aussie phones -- not just football players -- and free of charge! Talk about service!

2 hours ago, dpositive said:

I agree that it is extreme, and should be unnecessary as a test should be able to find any variance which is performance enhancing and can be conducted within reasonable time frames I would have thought.

But I am not an expert in drug activities and would rely on WADA who have probably seen all examples of avoidance and use.

These "young men who kick a leather ball around" are richly rewarded for that action (probably more than most "commonwealth security clearance holders") and so have to suffer some extreme privations.

But in reality these things are probably bought in to satisfy the gambling industry who want to eliminate any manipulation of the game.

The amount of compensation you are given for your services should bear nothing on the level of invasive conditions you are subject to. The more you earn, the less you should be entitled to privacy and liberty?

Lets apply the scenario slightly differently - who here agrees all kids should be tracked using metadata to ensure they are attending school everyday? Should your boss be allowed access to your metadata to determine how long you took for your lunch break? Where and how can you draw the line on this. 

Good grief this country needs a bill of rights desperately. 

1 hour ago, Mazer Rackham said:

The beautiful part is, the Chinese have already installed this app on a great many Aussie phones -- not just football players -- and free of charge! Talk about service!

Thanks for the info.

I doubt they can hear us anyway.

We’ve got Syd Barrett tunes blaring out on repeat.

2 hours ago, Mazer Rackham said:

The beautiful part is, the Chinese have already installed this app on a great many Aussie phones -- not just football players -- and free of charge! Talk about service!

Sun Yang, the poster boy of Chinese swimming is having his day in the Swiss courts starting this evening. Good article here from the ABC.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-11-15/why-sun-yang-case-watershed-moment-for-sport/11699528

It's being live streamed and is the first publicly heard case in 20 years apparently.

2 hours ago, Smokey said:

The amount of compensation you are given for your services should bear nothing on the level of invasive conditions you are subject to. The more you earn, the less you should be entitled to privacy and liberty?

Lets apply the scenario slightly differently - who here agrees all kids should be tracked using metadata to ensure they are attending school everyday? Should your boss be allowed access to your metadata to determine how long you took for your lunch break? Where and how can you draw the line on this. 

Good grief this country needs a bill of rights desperately. 

I'm not sure how a Bill of Rights would help in this situation as the players have provided their consent. If they don't like those conditions, they don't have to be professional sports people.   

2 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I'm not sure how a Bill of Rights would help in this situation as the players have provided their consent. If they don't like those conditions, they don't have to be professional sports people.   

not to mention their union signed off on it too

2 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

not to mention their union signed off on it too

and not to mention that the USA has a Bill of Rights and I imagine their professional sports players follow a similar regimen.

45 minutes ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

and not to mention that the USA has a Bill of Rights and I imagine their professional sports players follow a similar regimen.

They don't actually. Or at least i 'm pretty sure they don't.

I stand to be corrected but i don't think any of NFL, NHL, NBA, MBL or Golf are signed up to the WADA code.

In fact most of those sports have incredibly lax regimes and penalties, baseball being a classic example.

In golf i have feeling they only recently started testing players for performance enhancing and recreational drugs (long been rumors about heavy coke use on tour)

Edited November 15, 20195 yr by binman

37 minutes ago, binman said:

They don't actually. Or at least i 'm pretty sure they don't.

I stand to be corrected but i don't think any of NFL, NHL, NBA, MBL or Golf are signed up to the WADA code.

In fact most of those sports have incredibly lax regimes and penalties, baseball being a classic example.

In golf i have feeling they only recently started testing players for performance enhancing and recreational drugs (long been rumors about heavy coke use on tour)

yes, but US Olympic sports (cycling, swimming, etc etc) have signed up to wada, so LDVC's comment re bill of rights is still valid

2 hours ago, daisycutter said:

yes, but US Olympic sports (cycling, swimming, etc etc) have signed up to wada, so LDVC's comment re bill of rights is still valid

Yes, i guess so. I thought he meant professional sports

16 minutes ago, binman said:

Yes, i guess so. I thought he meant professional sports

Olympic sports aren't Professional binman?

i think you will find they are professional in every sense of the word.

On 11/15/2019 at 6:28 PM, binman said:

Yes, i guess so. I thought he meant professional sports

You were half right. I meant both professional and Olympic sports.

On 11/15/2019 at 2:51 PM, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

I'm not sure how a Bill of Rights would help in this situation as the players have provided their consent. If they don't like those conditions, they don't have to be professional sports people.   

A bill of rights has the capacity to make this particular scenario illegal, and therefore players wouldn't need to consent to it. That's how. 

Anyone who actually thinks it's OK to force people into being physically tracked at all times as a condition of employment should head over to China so you can live with like-minded people.