What I find the most puzzling of this whole thing is that we apparently haven't offered him a contract. If he was leaving because the Hawks offered more money/longer contract than I wouldn't be as concerned but the fact that we are letting him walk out the door without putting anything on the table (especially after signing up OMac) just seems to be mystifying to me.

The one positive out of this is that there will be no chance of a Frost/OMac combination with honestly gave me nightmares.

Poor list management. Pure and simple. Oscar is a dud and has a contract. Frost doesn't time for Mahoney to go. Been their long enough.

Leaving aside the discussion about who is better player, Omac or frost, do people not understand that one has a contract in 2020 and one doesn't. 

So even if the club decided it wanted to keep Frost ahead of Omac, Omac woud have to want to leave. Given he is coming off a poor season as if now would be the ideal time to test the market and negotiate a contract at another AFL club when has a contract he is happy with for 2020 at the dees.  

Frost IS OUT OF CONTRACT.

Edited October 5, 20195 yr by binman

2 minutes ago, binman said:

Leaving aside the discussion about who is better player Omac and frost do people not understand that one has contract at 2020 and one doesn't. 

So even if the club decided it wanted to keep Frost and ahead of Omac, Omac woud have to want to leave. Given he is coming off a poor season as if now would be the ideal time to test the market and negotiate a contract at another AFL club when has a contract he is happy with for 2020 at the dees.  

Frost IS OUT OF CONTRACT.

There's your first mistake Binny. 

21 minutes ago, binman said:

Leaving aside the discussion about who is better player, Omac or frost, do people not understand that one has a contract in 2020 and one doesn't. 

So even if the club decided it wanted to keep Frost ahead of Omac, Omac woud have to want to leave. Given he is coming off a poor season as if now would be the ideal time to test the market and negotiate a contract at another AFL club when has a contract he is happy with for 2020 at the dees.  

Frost IS OUT OF CONTRACT.

Oscar has 1 year or 2 left on his contract?

Martin,  Blease & Gysberts were all traded out despite all 3 having 1 year left on their contracts

And we've paid out 1 or 2 players in the recent past.  The names escape me right now but it's at least 1 player.

There are no set rules surrounding contracts ... in overseas sports players are traded despite being on 4 or 5 year deals.

Eventually the same thing will happen here.  We've seen lots of change even in the last 5 years.  Players nominating clubs they wish to be traded to will end up happening mid season.  Get ready for it

As for Frost,  contracts aside,  the club has just let him go because they don't want to keep him.  And Frost might have indicated he wants out and the club has decided to not stand in his way.  A mutual agreement.

To me there's no big deal.  Business decisions are made and you get on with it.

I doubt we'll get much for Frost but we were never going to get much for him regardless of how things went down

And how do we know that a deal with the Hawks wasn't made 'In principle' quite a while ago?  I wouldn't be surprised

My guess is a late 3rd round pick.

53 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

Poor list management. Pure and simple. Oscar is a dud and has a contract. Frost doesn't time for Mahoney to go. Been their long enough.

Poor list management? Frost is average at best.

we have Lever, May and now Tomlinson.  Mahoney has done a brilliant job 

1 hour ago, WERRIDEE said:

Poor list management. Pure and simple. Oscar is a dud and has a contract. Frost doesn't time for Mahoney to go. Been their long enough.

Why don't you do us up a best 22 then mate? You don't have to include Oscar.

Just now, Demons11 said:

Poor list management? Frost is average at best.

we have Lever, May and now Tomlinson.  Mahoney has done a brilliant job 

Frost is better than average and he is better than Tomlinson. Tomlinson going to be played on the wing anyway he's not a key back.

Petty will have to go back when he looked so good as a forward. I can't believe he said we have depth down back Oscar is not depth he is a clogger. Mahoney has been a dud. 17th on the ladder remember. You are underselling Frost it is a bad move to let him go.

1 minute ago, WERRIDEE said:

Frost is better than average and he is better than Tomlinson. Tomlinson going to be played on the wing anyway he's not a key back.

Petty will have to go back when he looked so good as a forward. I can't believe he said we have depth down back Oscar is not depth he is a clogger. Mahoney has been a dud. 17th on the ladder remember. You are underselling Frost it is a bad move to let him go.

Please mate, you are kidding yourself.

 

Just now, A F said:

Why don't you do us up a best 22 then mate? You don't have to include Oscar.

B: JETTA, MAY, LEVER

HB: HIBBERD, PETTY, SALEM

C : LANGDON, OLIVER, TOMLINSON

HF: MELKSHAM, T.MCDONALD, PETRACCA

F: ELLIOTT, WEIDEMAN, FRITSCH

FOLL: GAWN, VINEY, BRAYSHAW

IC: HARMES, JONES, PICK 3, HUNT

39 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

B: JETTA, MAY, LEVER

HB: HIBBERD, PETTY, SALEM

C : LANGDON, OLIVER, TOMLINSON

HF: MELKSHAM, T.MCDONALD, PETRACCA

F: ELLIOTT, WEIDEMAN, FRITSCH

FOLL: GAWN, VINEY, BRAYSHAW

IC: HARMES, JONES, PICK 3, HUNT

See, it's a bloody good 22. No need to complain.

1 minute ago, Demons11 said:

Please mate, you are kidding yourself.

 

Your on of those supporters that think Melbourne can do no wrong. Well they can and have been wrong. They will be wrong with Frost.

1 hour ago, WERRIDEE said:

Poor list management. Pure and simple. Oscar is a dud and has a contract. Frost doesn't time for Mahoney to go. Been their long enough.

You do know that Mahoney is not List Manager or Recruiting Manager?

Gobsmacked that Frosty has 48 pages on Demonland dedicated to mostly posters jumping up and down about losing the next saviour. 

1 minute ago, Redleg said:

You do know that Mahoney is not List Manager or Recruiting Manager?

He's still not doing his job Frost>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tomlinson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Oscar

7 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

B: JETTA, MAY, LEVER

HB: HIBBERD, PETTY, SALEM

C : LANGDON, OLIVER, TOMLINSON

HF: MELKSHAM, T.MCDONALD, PETRACCA

F: ELLIOTT, WEIDEMAN, FRITSCH

FOLL: GAWN, VINEY, BRAYSHAW

IC: HARMES, JONES, PICK 3, HUNT

You picked a Lions player in the forward pocket.

Edited October 5, 20195 yr by Redleg

1 minute ago, WERRIDEE said:

He's still not doing his job Frost>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tomlinson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Oscar

What’s his job? 

1 minute ago, WERRIDEE said:

He's still not doing his job Frost>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Tomlinson>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Oscar

Do you even know what his job is?

Just now, Redleg said:

You picked a Lions player in the foreword pocket.

He's not over the line yet. If he doesn't come to Melbourne then Hunt goes to the pocket and Vandenberg goes to the bench.

1 minute ago, Redleg said:

Do you even know what his job is?

He's in charge of football matters which includes recruiting which has been [censored]. Frost goes then Mahoney should go.

12 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

He's in charge of football matters which includes recruiting which has been [censored]. Frost goes then Mahoney should go.

His job actually has nothing to do with he recruitment of players;

He appoints the appropriate personnel, or ensures they are appointed including team managers, trainers, runners and other team support staff. He also ensures coaches and players are correctly paid and coordinates delivery of the operational plan. 

Edited October 5, 20195 yr by Ethan Tremblay

On 10/4/2019 at 6:10 PM, Sir Why You Little said:

You may well be spot on nox, and i hope you are, because it’s what we are stuck with. I just find it hard to understand how someone can play so badly and be retained in a very important position, whereas someone who is prepared to take the game on, is shown the door ? 

it is the exact opposite to my thinking. 

Omac looked completely lost in all scenarios in 2019 to me

His B&F rating is not lying...

I agree that OMac really struggled in 2019. I think up until last year we were building to play a disciplined full field zone style game. It required players to follow rules to a tee, read the play  intercept, drop off, and play safe within the system when in defense. OMac could do this. We added Lever because he was the best at this. 

But 666 changed this and lock down defenders became a necessity. We brought May in as an anchor, but he was injured. Lever is probably second choice but he too was injured. Frost is our best defender when it comes to stopping leads, but he gets himself out of position too much to fit our structure. 

I am definitely concerned about Oscar going forward, and do think Frosts speed is a desirable attribute. But I can see why the club maumy not want to kick him in on a large contract. 

 

On 10/4/2019 at 9:02 PM, Dr. Gonzo said:

Correct his erratic play looks great when he has the ball but it ruins our structures and catches our players out if position particularly when a) he misses a target and b) causes a turnover leaving our defenders out of position (as they are in "attack" mode) leading to an easy opposition score

Frost has great closing speed and is good one on one but his negatives mean it would be stupid of the club to contemplate paying above market value for a player of his type.

His turnovers might not look "high" on paper, but by messing with our structures we either turn it over immediately, or after he gets rid of it. This impact on future position and diaposals shouldn't be forgotten. 

36 minutes ago, WERRIDEE said:

He's in charge of football matters which includes recruiting which has been [censored]. Frost goes then Mahoney should go.

Someone needs a holiday.

Seems to me something wrong if the reason that Frost is in jeopardy is because they gave Oscar a contract. Comparing the two, Oscar’s contract is a red herring. Even if you had to keep Oscar and play him at Casey, retaining Frost is a no-brainer IMHO.

you only have to look at their averages:

 

SAM FROST’S 2019 AVERAGES

Disposals: 13.5

Marks: 4.3

Metres gained: 224

Intercept marks: 1.7

Intercept possessions: 7

OSCAR MCDONALD’S 2019 AVERAGES 

Disposals: 8.9

Marks: 2.6

Metres gained: 125

Intercept marks: 0.3

Intercept possessions: 3.4

9 hours ago, binman said:

Leaving aside the discussion about who is better player, Omac or frost, do people not understand that one has a contract in 2020 and one doesn't. 

So even if the club decided it wanted to keep Frost ahead of Omac, Omac woud have to want to leave. Given he is coming off a poor season as if now would be the ideal time to test the market and negotiate a contract at another AFL club when has a contract he is happy with for 2020 at the dees.  

Frost IS OUT OF CONTRACT.

I think the point is binman is that it would be more worthwhile looking to trade Oscar for some value, maybe late 2nd round, and then re-sign Frost, rather than to let Frost walk. 

This is shocking list management no matter how you look at it. Especially if we fail to land Elliot and are forced to overpay a spud like Tomlinson to get our cap space filled.

Edited October 5, 20195 yr by praha