Goody Presser (8/8)

[McQueen 17,864]

7 hours ago, Loose Men Everywhere said:

Why can't we ever hear the questions on coach pressers? It is really annoying

Microphones are not that expensive ffs

Neither are headphones. 

I heard most questions from DeStoop relatively easily. 

But i do agree with your point. Post game interviews in particular for anyone other than ch7. 

[bing181 9,240]

3 hours ago, DemonOX said:

All comes down to interpretation sue. 

Then stop interpreting.

Simples.

[Pennant St Dee 13,185]

3 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Here's a little something I'll share from a contact I have.

Recently, Goody spoke at an event to a small group, (I won't divulge) but there were no media in attendance.

The first thing I'll say is that both my source and I have been critical of Goodwin and his media performances in the past, however at this event he was very different, was honest and opened up a great deal more regarding this season.

Some talking points and discussion:

* The disruption and snowball effect the pre-season surgeries had cannot be underestimated. Didn't have nearly enough time with the players to not only get the required conditioning in, but to run and trial drills, build cohesion etc etc.. (We all know it's had an impact but he stressed the point again).

* He believed in some ways that we were lucky to make the prelim with the list we had. We were slightly ahead of where he thought we should be by the end of last year and the hype that followed us into this season was too much.

* There are some issues with staff and coaches right now and there will be big changes made end of year. (The event was held before the McCartney news broke)

* The main message was that there will be some big changes to both playing list and staff at the end of the year. He doesn't believe we have the list to take us to the promised land.

* Goody didn't say this but my source got the impression that a captaincy change up could be on the cards. (Gawn).

 

I'll put my hand up to say that normally I'm hyper critical of Goodwin in media interviews for the lack of insight and information he shares, but I was assured that he was a completely different character away from the camera. 

Thought I'd share, looking forward to the end of this year.

 

 

Thanks for sharing 

But Demonlanders need to realise it's a game Coaches play what's said to the media and what happens behind closed doors is very different.

To anyone thinking the club is not reviewing what's gone wrong and how to get back on track next season, you are crazy

[Dr. Gonzo 24,221]

3 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Here's a little something I'll share from a contact I have.

Recently, Goody spoke at an event to a small group, (I won't divulge) but there were no media in attendance.

The first thing I'll say is that both my source and I have been critical of Goodwin and his media performances in the past, however at this event he was very different, was honest and opened up a great deal more regarding this season.

Some talking points and discussion:

* The disruption and snowball effect the pre-season surgeries had cannot be underestimated. Didn't have nearly enough time with the players to not only get the required conditioning in, but to run and trial drills, build cohesion etc etc.. (We all know it's had an impact but he stressed the point again).

* He believed in some ways that we were lucky to make the prelim with the list we had. We were slightly ahead of where he thought we should be by the end of last year and the hype that followed us into this season was too much.

* There are some issues with staff and coaches right now and there will be big changes made end of year. (The event was held before the McCartney news broke)

* The main message was that there will be some big changes to both playing list and staff at the end of the year. He doesn't believe we have the list to take us to the promised land.

* Goody didn't say this but my source got the impression that a captaincy change up could be on the cards. (Gawn).

 

I'll put my hand up to say that normally I'm hyper critical of Goodwin in media interviews for the lack of insight and information he shares, but I was assured that he was a completely different character away from the camera. 

Thought I'd share, looking forward to the end of this year.

 

 

But how many times did he scratch his leg?

[KLV 1,765]

I know we are all supporters, members, fans whatever, and this season has been really hard, but the angst Goodwin’s media causes on DL really is unnecessary. The AFL community, whether it player, coach, club or head office carefully manage their message. It represents little of what is actually happening. 

Same with team selection, for example Preuss not being selected for most of the year had many on here yelling for goodwin’s sacking or worse, many pages on various threads were devoted to the subject. When Preuss was eventually selected, he showed manifestly that he is not ready. 

Turns out there was a reason why he was not selected. 

I know it feels hard to trust the club at times like these and we have  been so badly let down by administrators in the past. Whether or not you’re suspect of the current mob, they will always have valid reasons to make decisions on selection of players, coaches , staff and will not disclose 90% of the machinations behind the scenes. 

Media can have agendas and it is a competitive space 

 

[Sorry kids 635]

3 minutes ago, KLV said:

I know we are all supporters, members, fans whatever, and this season has been really hard, but the angst Goodwin’s media causes on DL really is unnecessary. The AFL community, whether it player, coach, club or head office carefully manage their message. It represents little of what is actually happening. 

Same with team selection, for example Preuss not being selected for most of the year had many on here yelling for goodwin’s sacking or worse, many pages on various threads were devoted to the subject. When Preuss was eventually selected, he showed manifestly that he is not ready. 

Turns out there was a reason why he was not selected. 

I know it feels hard to trust the club at times like these and we have  been so badly let down by administrators in the past. Whether or not you’re suspect of the current mob, they will always have valid reasons to make decisions on selection of players, coaches , staff and will not disclose 90% of the machinations behind the scenes. 

Media can have agendas and it is a competitive space 

 

Not necessarily true of strong clubs. Only tonight Clarkson talked honestly and maturely  to supporters and the media  about the likelyhood and reasoning behind whether or not Roughead gets a farewell game.  He may get it but it is a clear statement that it will not be given on emotional grounds.

[KLV 1,765]

10 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

Not necessarily true of strong clubs. Only tonight Clarkson talked honestly and maturely  to supporters and the media  about the likelyhood and reasoning behind whether or not Roughead gets a farewell game.  He may get it but it is a clear statement that it will not be given on emotional grounds.

Did he though? Clarkson is the master of spin

[Sorry kids 635]

4 minutes ago, KLV said:

Did he though? Clarkson is the master of spin

I disagree. Clarkson is direct, Hodge, Lewis-its over lads

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

27 minutes ago, KLV said:

Media can have agendas and it is a competitive space 

 

Not can, the media do have agendas.... 

Some are worse than others and some are afl mouth pieces and journos should be embarrassed they are associated with them

 

 

Edited August 8, 2019 by Unleash Hell

[KLV 1,765]

7 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

I disagree. Clarkson is direct, Hodge, Lewis-its over lads

True, but his pregame stuff is carefully worded. He uses the media to his and Hawthorn’s advantage, most of them inc Goodwin just aim to complete their duty saying as little as possible 

[Sorry kids 635]

8 hours ago, KLV said:

True, but his pregame stuff is carefully worded. He uses the media to his and Hawthorn’s advantage, most of them inc Goodwin just aim to complete their duty saying as little as possible 

Exactly KLV

[Lucifers Hero 39,820]

15 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Here's a little something I'll share from a contact I have.

Recently, Goody spoke at an event to a small group, (I won't divulge) but there were no media in attendance.

The first thing I'll say is that both my source and I have been critical of Goodwin and his media performances in the past, however at this event he was very different, was honest and opened up a great deal more regarding this season.

Some talking points and discussion:

* The disruption and snowball effect the pre-season surgeries had cannot be underestimated. Didn't have nearly enough time with the players to not only get the required conditioning in, but to run and trial drills, build cohesion etc etc.. (We all know it's had an impact but he stressed the point again).

* He believed in some ways that we were lucky to make the prelim with the list we had. We were slightly ahead of where he thought we should be by the end of last year and the hype that followed us into this season was too much.

* There are some issues with staff and coaches right now and there will be big changes made end of year. (The event was held before the McCartney news broke)

* The main message was that there will be some big changes to both playing list and staff at the end of the year. He doesn't believe we have the list to take us to the promised land.

* Goody didn't say this but my source got the impression that a captaincy change up could be on the cards. (Gawn).

I'll put my hand up to say that normally I'm hyper critical of Goodwin in media interviews for the lack of insight and information he shares, but I was assured that he was a completely different character away from the camera. 

Thought I'd share, looking forward to the end of this year.

Many thanks for info.

Would like to comment on the two highlighted items:

Staff and Coaches: Goodwin's line coach appointments:  Chaplin, Plapp, Rooke.  Goodwin's staff/advisor appointments:  Egan, McCartney, Jennings.  The latter two were during Roos' reign but were Goodwin appointments as Roos, rightly, was allowing Goodwin to build his own team.

His 3 line coaches were and are horribly inexperienced in the AFL or in the roles he gave them.  So much so that Rooke was moved out of his line coaching role midyear.

So I hold Goodwin 90% responsible for the mess of our coaching panel and related staff.  The other 10% goes to Mahoney who oversaw the coaching panel build and endorsed the appointments. 

Playing List: The 28 players added in Goodwin's reign for his Game Plan:  

Rhetorical question:  How many 'Best 22' from those 28 players?  The jury is still out on some but I don't see very many.  Not much of a bounty after 3/4 years!  So its a bit rich for Goodwin to say 'we don't have the list to take us to the promised land' as:

• the coach sets the game plan,
• the coach makes the calls on trades,
• Recruiting fill the list gaps for the required game plan, with the draft picks left after trading.   Taylor hasn't had much to work with for the last 3 years and it shows in the state of our list. 

I see about 12-14 good to very good players on our player list then if falls away very quickly. 

 

Overall, imv Goodwin has made some very poor decisions on coaches, staff and players.  I find it staggering that our club is now having to make major repairs to our coaching panel and playing list after just 3 years.

I have been going on for the last two years for an experienced person (call it director, mentor, GM Football or whatever) to help Goodwin avoid the pitfalls our rookie coach has fallen into.  That Mahoney has not done that is an indictment on him.   

I'm still a believer in Goodwin but he needs to steady the ship, take a long, hard look at himself and start making better decisions. 

Edit:  Was there any mention of the game plan?

Edited August 8, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[SFebes 4,884]

14 hours ago, stevethemanjordan said:

Here's a little something I'll share from a contact I have.

Recently, Goody spoke at an event to a small group, (I won't divulge) but there were no media in attendance.

The first thing I'll say is that both my source and I have been critical of Goodwin and his media performances in the past, however at this event he was very different, was honest and opened up a great deal more regarding this season.

Some talking points and discussion:

* The disruption and snowball effect the pre-season surgeries had cannot be underestimated. Didn't have nearly enough time with the players to not only get the required conditioning in, but to run and trial drills, build cohesion etc etc.. (We all know it's had an impact but he stressed the point again).

* He believed in some ways that we were lucky to make the prelim with the list we had. We were slightly ahead of where he thought we should be by the end of last year and the hype that followed us into this season was too much.

* There are some issues with staff and coaches right now and there will be big changes made end of year. (The event was held before the McCartney news broke)

* The main message was that there will be some big changes to both playing list and staff at the end of the year. He doesn't believe we have the list to take us to the promised land.

* Goody didn't say this but my source got the impression that a captaincy change up could be on the cards. (Gawn).

 

I'll put my hand up to say that normally I'm hyper critical of Goodwin in media interviews for the lack of insight and information he shares, but I was assured that he was a completely different character away from the camera. 

Thought I'd share, looking forward to the end of this year.

 

 

I agree with everything Goody has said, however he really needs to take some ownership also. Like for eg, playing OMAC ahead of Hore this week is just mind boggling, team selections, positional moves (Fritsch in defence, Lewis/Brayshaw/Lewis on wings etc), lack of game day nous, he is seriously a poor coach and easily outcoached atm. We started this current rebuild late 2013, how have we still not got enough talent is beyond me, the constant need and over recruiting of inside mids is also on him.

[old55 23,593]

21 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Playing List: Players added in Goodwin's reign for his Game Plan:  

Rhetorical question:  How many 'Best 22' in that list?  The jury is still out on some but I don't see very many.  Not much of a bounty after 3/4 years!  So its a bit rich for Goodwin to say 'we don't have the list to take us to the promised land'.

All lists can be improved but our list is a long way off and Goodwin is largely responsible as:

• the coach sets the game plan,
• the coach makes the calls on trades,
• Recruiting fill the list gaps for the required game plan, with the draft picks left after trading.   Taylor hasn't had much to work with for the last 3 years and it shows in the state of our list.  I see about a 12-14 good to very good players on our player list then if falls away very quickly. 

Enjoy your thoughtful posting LH and you make some good points about the line coaches' inexperience. 

But I think you're being harsh on list management - the list is still a work in progress and I'm OK with that.

I see 6 best 22 in your list above: May, Lever, Melksham, Fritsch, Hibberd, Hannan - some may debate the last 2.

KK and J.Smith are potential best 22 also, but have been injured.

Hore, Petty, Baker and Jordon have all shown something this year are possible best 22 when they develop some more.

Preuss is there as specific back-up if Max gets injured and was competent against Carlton in that role, at least until he ran out of gas in the last quarter. So a good selection IMO.

Lewis was recruited for a sound purpose and was best 22 but is not now.

IMO it's really too early to make a call on Spargo, Sparrow, Bedford, Nietschke, Chandler, C.Wagner, Lockhart, Walker, Bradtke and Dunkley and only the first four of them were selected in the ND, the other 6 are speculative.

J.Wagner, Maynard, Keilty and T.Smith (mainly because he's always injured - he could be reasonable depth otherwise) look like busts but they were all Rookie selections - so it happens. 

 

[Engorged Onion 10,215]

46 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Many thanks for info.

Would like to comment on the two highlighted items:

Staff and Coaches: Goodwin's line coach appointments:  Chaplin, Plapp, Rooke.  Goodwin's staff/advisor appointments:  Egan, McCartney, Jennings.  The latter two were during Roos' reign but were Goodwin appointments as Roos, rightly, was allowing Goodwin to build his own team.

His 3 line coaches were and are horribly inexperienced in the AFL or in the roles he gave them.  So much so that Rooke was moved out of his line coaching role midyear.

So I hold Goodwin 90% responsible for the mess of our coaching panel and related staff.  The other 10% goes to Mahoney who oversaw the coaching panel build and endorsed the appointments. 

Playing List: The 28 players added in Goodwin's reign for his Game Plan:  

Rhetorical question:  How many 'Best 22' from those 28 players?  The jury is still out on some but I don't see very many.  Not much of a bounty after 3/4 years!  So its a bit rich for Goodwin to say 'we don't have the list to take us to the promised land' as:

• the coach sets the game plan,
• the coach makes the calls on trades,
• Recruiting fill the list gaps for the required game plan, with the draft picks left after trading.   Taylor hasn't had much to work with for the last 3 years and it shows in the state of our list. 

I see about 12-14 good to very good players on our player list then if falls away very quickly. 

 

Overall, imv Goodwin has made some very poor decisions on coaches, staff and players.  I find it staggering that our club is now having to make major repairs to our coaching panel and playing list after just 3 years.

I have been going on for the last two years for an experienced person (call it director, mentor, GM Football or whatever) to help Goodwin avoid the pitfalls our rookie coach has fallen into.  That Mahoney has not done that is an indictment on him.   

I'm still a believer in Goodwin but he needs to steady the ship, take a long, hard look at himself and start making better decisions. 

Edit:  Was there any mention of the game plan?

I hear (see??) what you are saying with ref to the playing list explicitly - and I think @Lucifer's Hero that you could apply the same analysis on ALL other clubs playing list  and not get disimilar results at the coaches 3/4 year mark.

I feel it's a little disingenuous to present this data and say it's only applicable to the MFC.

postscript - i have zero evidence of this, it is just the 'vibe'.

[Kent 2,910]

5 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

I hear (see??) what you are saying with ref to the playing list explicitly - and I think @Lucifer's Hero that you could apply the same analysis on ALL other clubs playing list  and not get disimilar results at the coaches 3/4 year mark.

I feel it's a little disingenuous to present this data and say it's only applicable to the MFC.

postscript - i have zero evidence of this, it is just the 'vibe'.

Except we have managed to get the list from 4th to 17th in 12 months

[Lucifers Hero 39,820]

1 hour ago, Fifty-5 said:

Enjoy your thoughtful posting LH and you make some good points about the line coaches' inexperience. 

But I think you're being harsh on list management - the list is still a work in progress and I'm OK with that.

I see 6 best 22 in your list above: May, Lever, Melksham, Fritsch, Hibberd, Hannan - some may debate the last 2.

KK and J.Smith are potential best 22 also, but have been injured.

Hore, Petty, Baker and Jordon have all shown something this year are possible best 22 when they develop some more.

Preuss is there as specific back-up if Max gets injured and was competent against Carlton in that role, at least until he ran out of gas in the last quarter. So a good selection IMO.

Lewis was recruited for a sound purpose and was best 22 but is not now.

IMO it's really too early to make a call on Spargo, Sparrow, Bedford, Nietschke, Chandler, C.Wagner, Lockhart, Walker, Bradtke and Dunkley and only the first four of them were selected in the ND, the other 6 are speculative.

J.Wagner, Maynard, Keilty and T.Smith (mainly because he's always injured - he could be reasonable depth otherwise) look like busts but they were all Rookie selections - so it happens.

Fair comments 55. I agree with your '6 in the best 22'.  Also agree the jury is out on some others.

Was really addressing this part of STMJ's post:  The main message was that there will be some big changes to...playing list...at the end of the year. He doesn't believe we have the list to take us to the promised land.  Goodwin's game plan and trades have determined our current list and he is largely responsible for it. 

Goodwin was given a highly talented core list.  After 3/4 years of recruiting we shouldn't need 'big' changes; it should be tweaking.

Edited August 9, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[sue 9,107]

45 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Fair comments 55. I agree with your '6 in the best 22'.

Was really addressing this part of STMJ's post:  The main message was that there will be some big changes to...playing list...at the end of the year. He doesn't believe we have the list to take us to the promised land.  Goodwin's game plan and trades have determined our current list and he is largely responsible for it. 

Goodwin was given a highly talented core list.  After 3/4 years of recruiting we shouldn't need 'big' changes; it should be tweaking. . 

That may well be true, however if he got it wrong in those 3/4 years, I'd rather he does something about it now that he has realised it than just bumble along.

[Lucifers Hero 39,820]

1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

I hear (see??) what you are saying with ref to the playing list explicitly - and I think @Lucifer's Hero that you could apply the same analysis on ALL other clubs playing list  and not get disimilar results at the coaches 3/4 year mark.

I feel it's a little disingenuous to present this data and say it's only applicable to the MFC.

postscript - i have zero evidence of this, it is just the 'vibe'.

3 years ago, Goodwin inherited a core list of first choice players.  Some have gone, those remaining are:  Jones, Viney, Salem, Jetta, Gawn, Petracca, Brayshaw, Harmes, TMac, Oliver, Weideman, Garlett.   So he had quite a head start on a list than other new coaches at their 3/4 year mark. 

Feel free to do the analysis and back up your point that other new coaches 'did not get dissimilar' results (ie 17th on the ladder) at their 3/4 year mark.  But be sure to factor in inheriting a core list like ours, named above and after a two year apprenticeship as coach-in-waiting.

I didn't say my analysis was only applicable to mfc.  TBH, I don't know and don't care about other clubs.  If you want to do the analysis to demonstrate your point on my data and post being 'disingenuous', go ahead.  

Edited August 9, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero

[Lucifers Hero 39,820]

1 minute ago, sue said:

That may well be true, however if he got it wrong in those 3/4 years, I'd rather he does something about it now that he has realised it than just bumble along.

Totally agree 'sue'.  Hence why I'm still backing Goodwin to see the error of his ways in his game plan, the list management decisions to deliver it and in his coaching panel selections.  

[Smokey 4,389]

13 hours ago, Sorry kids said:

Not necessarily true of strong clubs. Only tonight Clarkson talked honestly and maturely  to supporters and the media  about the likelyhood and reasoning behind whether or not Roughead gets a farewell game.  He may get it but it is a clear statement that it will not be given on emotional grounds.

Whether they are giving a legacy star a sendoff game or not is quite different to talking about the internal processes of a footy department. I'm sure you'd get a similar response from Goody right now if Jones were playing for Casey and on his last year right now. 

I don't recall many candid media appearances from Clarkson which divulge the internal workings, vision and roadmap of their footy department ... 

Edited August 9, 2019 by Smokey

[old55 23,593]

2 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Fair comments 55. I agree with your '6 in the best 22'.  Also agree the jury is out on some others.

Was really addressing this part of STMJ's post:  The main message was that there will be some big changes to...playing list...at the end of the year. He doesn't believe we have the list to take us to the promised land.  Goodwin's game plan and trades have determined our current list and he is largely responsible for it. 

Goodwin was given a highly talented core list.  After 3/4 years of recruiting we shouldn't need 'big' changes; it should be tweaking.

Yes, I think it depends on what "big" turns out to mean.

I expect us to pick up someone who can play on the wing - probably Langdon, maybe B.Hill (probably too expensive) or Z.Jones.

I'd like us to find a small forward who can apply pressure and is dangerous around goals - ANB and Jeffy aren't up to it for different reasons and Spargo definitely stalled.  Maybe one of Richmond's surplus - but I wasn't impressed with Butler last week and he has been dropped for Stack I'm guessing.  Not sure about other options - maybe Lewis Taylor.  The FD will have a target if they think, like me, that it's a need. Getting Papley would be big.

I think they are substantial changes - adding hopefully 2 players to our best 22 and we should add another one with pick 2 - IMO we should definitely use this in the draft, I'm not expecting us to see picks anywhere near that early again for many years.

Others are advocating for a marking forward - that's more likely to be the "big" category, but who is really available - Patton?  There's Jenkins, Westhoff and maybe even Jarryd Roughead for a year as a bridge for Weid, but I wouldn't call any of them big gets.

There's also been talk of Keath and some good judges I know are keen.  Picking him up is not a big get in itself, but what it says about our structure is pretty big.  We paid a lot for Lever and May (good gets IMO) but to add yet another key back would be a big statement when Frost is having a very good year, Petty is showing some great signs and they're continuing to select OMac.  I suspect if Keath comes that means one of Frost or Petty may go - we need to pay for the winger and the forward and retain pick 2, so someone decent has to give.

Mahoney does a great job IMO, he's proactive, has his targets lined up and generally gets his man.  It will be fascinating to see what he has in store this year.