Training - Wednesday, 8th May 2019

[Diamond_Jim 12,718]

1 hour ago, old dee said:

Time to move to Casey full time RN.

In fact it is well and truely past time, forget this at the G crap and get a good home.

It is so obvious that this is the move from a facilities and finance view. The challenge is how to maintain a near CBD presence but it is easier answered than going for a compromised facility in Jolimont and its surrounds.

For those who are not aware of the grounds at Casey Fields it is a precinct for high development sport so things like pools and high level gyms etc are on the cards.

No I don't like it but it is the answer.

[Deemania since 56 6,772]

1 hour ago, old dee said:

Time to move to Casey full time RN.

In fact it is well and truely past time, forget this at the G crap and get a good home.

Casey in the outback is like a picnic afternoon on the way to Waverley,  the latter a ground that I personally liked, very much (where Tilbrook kicked the longest clearance I have ever seen). With infrastructural improvements made ASAP, for transport, parking, and a  massive upgrading of the ground and environs including stands - facilities that one might expect of a football ground - it could all be a very good move. We love the 'G but so does the AFL - almost as much as it loves the gate-takings it receives from 'our' home ground. The Casey- Dandenong-Frankston area and beyond is already a rather good supporter base, and a lively and handy community. 

[DeeSpencer 26,479]

2 hours ago, old dee said:

Time to move to Casey full time RN.

In fact it is well and truely past time, forget this at the G crap and get a good home.

That would be a St Kilda to Seaford style failure. It would further separate the Footy department from the admin, annoy the players with a 45-60 minute drive twice a day and leave them stranded in the middle of nowhere with nothing to do. 

Moving there would only work out if the facilities were as good as or better than any others in the league. The Hawks are about to put 100 million in to Dingley and that’s 20 minutes less drive.

[hemingway 7,633]

9 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Goschs' is 155 x 109 and often they cut in to a flank for the rehab group.
Casey looks more 160 x 134, very similar to Metricon.

Gosch's just isn't big enough to work on full ground drills that focus on space.

My initial reaction was to think what a load of rubbish. Reason being that our poor form is due to other factors such injuries and inability to  implement basic fundamentals such as effective handball and kicking skills, run (both ways) and overlap which exposes our problematic game plan of contested ball and zones. 

However, when you think about it most other clubs train and play on larger ovals. If you go back many years, clubs like Hawthorn, Richmond, Essendon and Collingwood prospered when they moved away from their small home grounds. The Hawks were a great example. Back in the day, they played hard contested slogging footy which suited the dimensions of their sardine tin ground at Glenferrie. Their stocks improved when they moved to Carlton, not a big ground, but with considerably more space than Glenferrie. 

I guess North still train on a small ground at Arden Street and they have had many successful years (although they have now fallen off the perch).  They also had successful years under Barassi training and playing at Arden Street, when they targeted players under the 10 year rule and picked up a crop of young talent. 

Richmond also continue to train at Punt Road, although I think it was lengthened at some stage. When they moved their home games to the MCG success soon followed. I am sure there are flaws in this conversation but it is interesting when you look back on history. 

As we know there other reasons for success, not the least recruiting talent and increasing professionalism on and off the field.

I don't see how training on smaller grounds would matter when doing routine training drills but it may have an influence with practice matches.  

There is no doubt that having state of the art facilities that include excellent training ground/s is important.  The Junction Oval has a beautiful large playing surface but the facilities were third world. The Northey and Daniher years at the Junction Oval were marked by mixed success.  

It is not possible to argue that there is a direct correlation between the size of the training ground and on field success because so many other factors come into play. However, it is clearly important that Melbourne moves to a state of the art training venue that includes an excellent playing surface like the old Junction Oval. 

Like others, I think it is looking unlikely that any new training venue will be in central Melbourne. The Hawthorn blueprint looks the more practical and likely option, and this road takes us directly to Casey. I will not be going out to Casey to watch the side train but there will be many old and new fans who will due to their place of residence in the the SE suburbs. It was not long ago that many thought that Waverley Park was too far away, but it has become established suburbia.  The same with Casey as our metropolitan area continues to expand like our obesity epidemic. . 

 

 

[old dee 24,028]

12 minutes ago, hemingway said:

My initial reaction was to think what a load of rubbish. Reason being that our poor form is due to other factors such injuries and inability to  implement basic fundamentals such as effective handball and kicking skills, run (both ways) and overlap which exposes our problematic game plan of contested ball and zones. 

However, when you think about it most other clubs train and play on larger ovals. If you go back many years, clubs like Hawthorn, Richmond, Essendon and Collingwood prospered when they moved away from their small home grounds. The Hawks were a great example. Back in the day, they played hard contested slogging footy which suited the dimensions of their sardine tin ground at Glenferrie. Their stocks improved when they moved to Carlton, not a big ground, but with considerably more space than Glenferrie. 

I guess North still train on a small ground at Arden Street and they have had many successful years (although they have now fallen off the perch).  They also had successful years under Barassi training and playing at Arden Street, when they targeted players under the 10 year rule and picked up a crop of young talent. 

Richmond also continue to train at Punt Road, although I think it was lengthened at some stage. When they moved their home games to the MCG success soon followed. I am sure there are flaws in this conversation but it is interesting when you look back on history. 

As we know there other reasons for success, not the least recruiting talent and increasing professionalism on and off the field.

I don't see how training on smaller grounds would matter when doing routine training drills but it may have an influence with practice matches.  

There is no doubt that having state of the art facilities that include excellent training ground/s is important.  The Junction Oval has a beautiful large playing surface but the facilities were third world. The Northey and Daniher years at the Junction Oval were marked by mixed success.  

It is not possible to argue that there is a direct correlation between the size of the training ground and on field success because so many other factors come into play. However, it is clearly important that Melbourne moves to a state of the art training venue that includes an excellent playing surface like the old Junction Oval. 

Like others, I think it is looking unlikely that any new training venue will be in central Melbourne. The Hawthorn blueprint looks the more practical and likely option, and this road takes us directly to Casey. I will not be going out to Casey to watch the side train but there will be many old and new fans who will due to their place of residence in the the SE suburbs. It was not long ago that many thought that Waverley Park was too far away, but it has become established suburbia.  The same with Casey as our metropolitan area continues to expand like our obesity epidemic. . 

 

 

Docklands was talked about on a number of occasions Ernest and it is still probably the only option in Central Melbourne.

However that may be just as big a dream as Yarra park.

For God sake make a move MFC, after half a century it is past time to act.

 

[old dee 24,028]

43 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

That would be a St Kilda to Seaford style failure. It would further separate the Footy department from the admin, annoy the players with a 45-60 minute drive twice a day and leave them stranded in the middle of nowhere with nothing to do. 

Moving there would only work out if the facilities were as good as or better than any others in the league. The Hawks are about to put 100 million in to Dingley and that’s 20 minutes less drive.

So you are happy with the current DS?

We have no other option that I can see.

[old dee 24,028]

2 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Casey in the outback is like a picnic afternoon on the way to Waverley,  the latter a ground that I personally liked, very much (where Tilbrook kicked the longest clearance I have ever seen). With infrastructural improvements made ASAP, for transport, parking, and a  massive upgrading of the ground and environs including stands - facilities that one might expect of a football ground - it could all be a very good move. We love the 'G but so does the AFL - almost as much as it loves the gate-takings it receives from 'our' home ground. The Casey- Dandenong-Frankston area and beyond is already a rather good supporter base, and a lively and handy community. 

It may be common knowledge but why are the Hawks leaving Waverley? From the outside it seems to be costing a very large amount of money to move to Dingley and start from scratch.

[DeeSpencer 26,479]

1 hour ago, old dee said:

So you are happy with the current DS?

We have no other option that I can see.

I would train there once a week if not more during Jan-March lead in to the season period that requires full ground drills, which combined with the Sunshine coast camp gives them a decent block of training on bigger grounds. Then fortnightly during the season. Maybe in the weeks leading up to games on bigger grounds or the weeks with longer breaks that allow for more rigorous training sessions.

Fitness and game plan are still bigger factors in our lack of spread that can be corrected without a larger oval.

Casey might be the best long term option but I wouldn't race out there now like the Saints did with Seaford. I'd still be looking for something closer to the city. If we were to go out there I'd want to spend 50m+ on moving the whole club, building some community projects and side businesses, increasing the stadiums capacity/shelter/amenities, making sure there's access to 2+ ovals etc etc.

 

[old dee 24,028]

6 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

I would train there once a week if not more during Jan-March lead in to the season period that requires full ground drills, which combined with the Sunshine coast camp gives them a decent block of training on bigger grounds. Then fortnightly during the season. Maybe in the weeks leading up to games on bigger grounds or the weeks with longer breaks that allow for more rigorous training sessions.

Fitness and game plan are still bigger factors in our lack of spread that can be corrected without a larger oval.

Casey might be the best long term option but I wouldn't race out there now like the Saints did with Seaford. I'd still be looking for something closer to the city. If we were to go out there I'd want to spend 50m+ on moving the whole club, building some community projects and side businesses, increasing the stadiums capacity/shelter/amenities, making sure there's access to 2+ ovals etc etc.

 

Agree with all that DS but how much longer are we going to wait?

IMO 2019 year is the cut off, we have now been without a home for half a century in the words of 1970 "it's time".

[Superunknown 4,243]

It sure has been fricking cold in Evans head the last few and I reckon on the Goldie. However the daytime autumnal weather is delightful . Once the sun dips though bang , cooler . 

[dieter 3,325]

10 minutes ago, Superunknown said:

It sure has been fricking cold in Evans head the last few and I reckon on the Goldie. However the daytime autumnal weather is delightful . Once the sun dips though bang , cooler . 

Lovely part of the world, Evans head. Prefer Brunswick Heads, much greener and tropical but probably 3 times as expensive.

[monoccular 17,697]

12 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

Measuring from google maps:

Goschs' is 155 x 109 and often they cut in to a flank for the rehab group.
Casey looks more 160 x 134, very similar to Metricon.

Gosch's just isn't big enough to work on full ground drills that focus on space.

 

That is in fact a tiny oval for match simulations.  Could however be widened without major works from what I can remember, and also maybe lengthened?

6 hours ago, old dee said:

Time to move to Casey full time RN.

In fact it is well and truely past time, forget this at the G crap and get a good home.

But could we get the next Brock McLean or Chri$$$ Judd to buy in to the long drive?  

4 hours ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Casey in the outback is like a picnic afternoon on the way to Waverley,  the latter a ground that I personally liked, very much (where Tilbrook kicked the longest clearance I have ever seen). With infrastructural improvements made ASAP, for transport, parking, and a  massive upgrading of the ground and environs including stands - facilities that one might expect of a football ground - it could all be a very good move. We love the 'G but so does the AFL - almost as much as it loves the gate-takings it receives from 'our' home ground. The Casey- Dandenong-Frankston area and beyond is already a rather good supporter base, and a lively and handy community. 

And who is going to pay for that?  Transport alone would be a huge investment and would be starting from scratch.

The Feds and State have already overcommitted to Kardinia Park and Western Oval redevelopments - would they be prepared to do the same for us?

[old dee 24,028]

2 minutes ago, monoccular said:

That is in fact a tiny oval for match simulations.  Could however be widened without major works from what I can remember, and also maybe lengthened?

But could we get the next Brock McLean or Chri$$$ Judd to buy in to the long drive?  

And who is going to pay for that?  Transport alone would be a huge investment and would be starting from scratch.

The Feds and State have already overcommitted to Kardinia Park and Western Oval redevelopments - would they be prepared to do the same for us?

Does not seem they are prepared to do anything for us around central melb so what other choices are there. I  happy to be elsewhere but from Pert and before him PJ they have checked out all options around inner Melbourne and there is nothing available. It appears to me that it is Goschs paddock or the outer suburbs. 

[DubDee 26,388]

11 minutes ago, old dee said:

Does not seem they are prepared to do anything for us around central melb so what other choices are there. I  happy to be elsewhere but from Pert and before him PJ they have checked out all options around inner Melbourne and there is nothing available. It appears to me that it is Goschs paddock or the outer suburbs. 

at least we have goal posts during our preseason training now OD! 

baby steps   haha

[old dee 24,028]

1 minute ago, DubDee said:

at least we have goal posts during our preseason training now OD! 

baby steps   haha

That probably says it all about our homes till now DD.

[Nelo 813]

20 hours ago, Graeme Yeats' Mullet said:

Thanks @Demonland for the video

Jeffy G looked to be moving OK in the video background, also good to see Mitch Hannan lurking around. JKH moving freely too

P.S. I don't buy Tom McDonald's lip service "nice to get out to Casey". Looked like a totally shouse day, lucky it wasn't also blowing a gale as per usual

I don’t know anyone that wants to go to Crimebourne. 

[Deemania since 56 6,772]

1 hour ago, monoccular said:

That is in fact a tiny oval for match simulations.  Could however be widened without major works from what I can remember, and also maybe lengthened?

But could we get the next Brock McLean or Chri$$$ Judd to buy in to the long drive?  

And who is going to pay for that?  Transport alone would be a huge investment and would be starting from scratch.

The Feds and State have already overcommitted to Kardinia Park and Western Oval redevelopments - would they be prepared to do the same for us?

Nope,  but the question had to be asked.

[Willmoy1947 4,219]

22 hours ago, Demonland said:

 

For some reason i want to look back at this picture in two years and say they were  going to be our four best players.......

[Its Time for Another 4,303]

3 hours ago, old dee said:

IMO 2019 year is the cut off, we have now been without a home for half a century in the words of 1970 "it's time".

You rang?

[KLV 1,768]

5 hours ago, old dee said:

It may be common knowledge but why are the Hawks leaving Waverley? From the outside it seems to be costing a very large amount of money to move to Dingley and start from scratch.

I read yesterday that Labor have promised them $20 mill

[old dee 24,028]

1 hour ago, KLV said:

I read yesterday that Labor have promised them $20 mill

But why are they leaving?

[Diamond_Jim 12,718]

1 hour ago, old dee said:

But why are they leaving?

I suspect Waverley has planning restrictions . The grandstand is heritage listed for example.

The Dingley project will rival the Essendon facilities at Tullamarine (which by the way includes the admin staff)

Kingston Council already assisted the Hawks with a planning scheme amendment that enables them to use the Dingley site for sports and social activities, as well as advertising at the ground and nearby.

"This is a project, when completed, which we hope will service our needs for the next 50 to 100 years," Kennett said.

"We've got to get it right … it is probably going to cost about $135 million.

"It's a massive project, but when completed, we will be the only club in the AFL who owns their facility. Everyone else is built on crown or state land.

"We don't know what's going to happen to (current base) Waverley just yet. We still own it … we might retain it, we might sell it – those decisions will be made closer to the time."

A Monash Council source confirmed to AFL.com.au they were in the dark about Hawthorn's intentions for Waverley Park, but the expectation was the oval would remain regardless.

Kennett previously stated that construction would not start until the Hawks raised about half of the funds required, but still hopes that process will begin next year.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/2019-02-18/hawks-set-to-unveil-grand-plan-for-new-dingley-fortress