It never seems to amaze me how much energy people have to spend on issues from the ancient past. 

  On 19/03/2019 at 01:49, Nasher said:

It never seems to amaze me how much energy people have to spend on issues from the ancient past. 

I think it's ok to keep people accountable from time to time. including us fans. For 3 years demonland was full of posters saying matthew bate was the next pavlich, blessed the next brent Harvey etc. Not to mention half the forum saying we would rue the day Watts left our footy club. 

Dunn and Howe would've been handy players but sometimes players need a new environment to change.

I agree with those who view them very differently.

Dunn gave us great service, his investment in the club couldn’t be questioned, and he was respectful in his departure even while being pushed out. 

On the flip side, Howe did everything but urinate on the door as he left. He couldn’t contain his glee at joining the filth. The fewer times I can see his dopey grinning mug the better.

  On 18/03/2019 at 20:03, Skuit said:

Hawthorn does the Kokoda trail to build up leadership qualities. Collingwood just recruits those who survived the MFC pre-2014. Much smarter from a logistics perspective.

I had a chuckle at that but you are closer than you think @Skuit

I remember there was a question posed by an article in the Age asking whose premiership reunion would be a happier affair: West Coast's seniors in 2006 or Fitzroy's reserves in 1989? It then pointed out the amount of Fitzroy blokes who went on to become football managers, coaches and administrators vs. the amount of blokes from the Weagles whose careers (and lives) went off the rails.

The key with the Fitzroy blokes was that the overall 's**t conditions' forced you to take responsibility for your own career rather than being lead around by the nose. 

Melbourne 2008-2013 was survival of the fittest and probably was textbook in everything a club could do wrong in the proscribed time frame. While having blokes who know success helps, having others who have been through the meat grinder (but only if they haven't been scarred excessively by their experiences) is important for your leadership group.

Edited March 19, 20196 yr by Hillary Bray

  On 18/03/2019 at 11:12, TGR said:

Lever?

You talking about ‘on paper’ and in theory?    He is so far from AA it ain’t funny.

 

Easy exercise for you to show the fab-four as if they are 4 aces. But what was the cost?  Time will tell, as I said at the time, that Adelaide will ultimately win from the deal...easily.  Freo showed us the way to deal (Hogan); whereas we blinked like a nervous teenager with Lever.

Adelaide certainly have done interesting things with the picks they got from us, gaining Darcy Fogarty, and then packagin our 2019 pick with their 2019 pick in exchange for Carlton's 2019 pick. It'll be a long time before we know how well they've done out of all their hardball and sometimes eccentric trades. Not sure Melbourne can be blamed if Calrton turn out to have stuffed it up their trade, though!

As for Lever being, as I said 'in a good season a realistic contender for All-australia', well, he was the top intercept defender in the game in 2017, and Lever's 2017 matched or bettered every statisical line of Alex Rance's AA 2018. So even if you quite fairly think stats are a weak indicator, it would just be silly to imagine Lever isn't capable of operating at 'All-Australian possibility' level.

As for Freo, well, if their trading history is going to a benchmark, I'd hate to see what a "worst-real-results-in-the-history-of-the-league-delivered-constantly-for-20-years" would look like!

 

Hope they finish 1/2 in the B&F of a team that runs last.

  On 19/03/2019 at 10:18, Little Goffy said:

Adelaide certainly have done interesting things with the picks they got from us, gaining Darcy Fogarty, and then packagin our 2019 pick with their 2019 pick in exchange for Carlton's 2019 pick. It'll be a long time before we know how well they've done out of all their hardball and sometimes eccentric trades. Not sure Melbourne can be blamed if Calrton turn out to have stuffed it up their trade, though!

As for Lever being, as I said 'in a good season a realistic contender for All-australia', well, he was the top intercept defender in the game in 2017, and Lever's 2017 matched or bettered every statisical line of Alex Rance's AA 2018. So even if you quite fairly think stats are a weak indicator, it would just be silly to imagine Lever isn't capable of operating at 'All-Australian possibility' level.

As for Freo, well, if their trading history is going to a benchmark, I'd hate to see what a "worst-real-results-in-the-history-of-the-league-delivered-constantly-for-20-years" would look like!

 

I don't think you have to look far. Try Melbourne FC pretty much anywhere in the period 1964 to 2013. But if you want to limit it to 20 years, the 1994-2013 era, even with some highlights early on, will take some beating. 

  On 19/03/2019 at 01:49, Nasher said:

It never seems to amaze me how much energy people have to spend on issues from the ancient past. 

 

Amazes me that the poster probably refers to 1964 every week.  Probably refers or thinks about the 1987 prelim every month.  Then there is 186 and the like.

Amazes me that the poster probably consoles an irate poster, who is aggrieved at a club decision, to ‘’wait and see’ what the ramifications will bring.

 

If you think that It is unreasonable for me to reflect on the club’s rationale over the past 2-3 years to bring in leadership (Lewis), while simultaneously letting leadership walk out the door, then let’s disagree again.

If what I am discussing is ancient history, then you, I suggest, routinely reference subjects that are light years past.  Your energy eclipses mine:  I only have time for ancient history, and not the entire spectrum of time.

howe was not a leader at melbourne, unless you were counting beer snakes on boxing day

dunn failed to follow team rules

lewis' leadership has been vital

  On 19/03/2019 at 23:50, whatwhatsaywhat said:

howe was not a leader at melbourne, unless you were counting beer snakes on boxing day

dunn failed to follow team rules

lewis' leadership has been vital

I am assuming that you are reaching these conclusions based on hearsay evidence.

I would say Lewis' onfield leadership has been poor.  Actions over the past 40 odd games (Indiscretions, 50m penalties, losing his cool) are vivid in our memories.  If he had an ounce of fair dinkum leadership, we would have seen none of this at all.

Let's assume you are correct though, and I doubt it....gee the transformation in (Howe & Dunn) leadership has been exponential.  Who knows, if this transformation is possible, Harley Bennell and Wattsy might be captains of their respective clubs in 2021.

  On 20/03/2019 at 06:20, TGR said:

I am assuming that you are reaching these conclusions based on hearsay evidence.

I would say Lewis' onfield leadership has been poor.  Actions over the past 40 odd games (Indiscretions, 50m penalties, losing his cool) are vivid in our memories.  If he had an ounce of fair dinkum leadership, we would have seen none of this at all.

Let's assume you are correct though, and I doubt it....gee the transformation in (Howe & Dunn) leadership has been exponential.  Who knows, if this transformation is possible, Harley Bennell and Wattsy might be captains of their respective clubs in 2021.

Not hearsay, no

Dunn needed a kick up the bum - he got it when he got jettisoned when he was a leader at the MFC who failed to follow team rules

Howe’s transformation was slow - who can forget the frisbee fiasco - but he has matured markedly at the filth in the last 18 months

You’re wrong re Lewis but nothing will change your mind on him 

Always liked Dunn. Good on him.

He loved the Dees. His only crime is doing his very best since we traded him.

 

  On 19/03/2019 at 01:49, Nasher said:

It never seems to amaze me how much energy people have to spend on issues from the ancient past. 

I’m still angry they changed the centre bounce rule so Jeff White couldn’t get a run up and became ineffective.

I’m also angry Brent Moloney got suspended  for not even touching his opponent.

i hold grudges.

One of the things looking at the Pies group for comparison, is how much better off we are in leadership stocks. I would take any of these seven over Dunn (who I liked) and Howe (who had great skills but wasn't keen on us or effort).

Jones

Viney

Gawn

Lever

Nev

Lewis

McDonald

Future???: May/Weideman/Fritsch

  On 21/03/2019 at 13:01, DaisyDeeciple said:

One of the things looking at the Pies group for comparison, is how much better off we are in leadership stocks. I would take any of these seven over Dunn (who I liked) and Howe (who had great skills but wasn't keen on us or effort).

Jones

Viney

Gawn

Lever

Nev

Lewis

McDonald

Future???: May/Weideman/Fritsch

Can't see how Lewis will be anything other than a bonefide liability onfield in 2019.  Lewis wont get the easy +1 gig anymore, not from a centre bounce anyway.  I reckon he will give away multiple 100m penalties this year too...if he lasts all year.  Some may argue, at the bottom of the barrel, that the new rules require an on-field coach.  Clarkson, who is undoubtedly proven to be the best football mind in the game, saw his used-by date in 2016.  We were an insecure beauty queen looking for a prom date at 10 minutes to midnight with the Lewis get.

 

Conversely, in 2018 our weaknesses were KP backs, and without them we got pretty close.  Would it have been enough to scrounge a MCG prelim final?  Likely I reckon.

 

That kick on to the chest of Dangerfield with a minute left certainly fired up the troops.

Too bad it was the opposition troops.

  On 22/03/2019 at 11:57, Petraccattack said:

That kick on to the chest of Dangerfield with a minute left certainly fired up the troops.

Too bad it was the opposition troops.

Rather that than a safe short kick wide in that situation.

 

If that fired up the troops, that doesn’t come close to our +1 that cremated us in the prelim.

  On 22/03/2019 at 12:19, TGR said:

Rather that than a safe short kick wide in that situation.

 

If that fired up the troops, that doesn’t come close to our +1 that cremated us in the prelim.

Yawn

Glad for Dunn. He was a loyal servent during some dark days at our club, he deserves something positive towards the end of his career.