Farewell Jesse Hogan

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,702]

21 minutes ago, Lord Neville X Flash said:

Brisbane - collingwood trade will take so long.

Freo will wait to see what Brisbane get for Beams. 

This hogan deal will get done in the last minute of the trade period

 

As expected.?

[beelzebub 23,364]

26 minutes ago, Redleg said:

TBH IF he is going to be traded and considering we want May, I don't really care anymore what the deal is, as long as we are left with pick 5.

If GC are happy to take the rest of what we get, whatever it is and we can wrap KK into the deal somehow, or do it separately for an acceptable pick, then I would be happy.

I think it is really about what we are left with after getting May. If it is pick 5 then fantastic, as that is a very good player, or the opener for more deals.  

This was ,most likely, all it ever was. All this silliness about pick this or that is really irrelevant. 

If you get what you want/need then youve won. What path taken doesn't matter.

Why is this simple notion so hard for many.

[DubDee 25,854]

37 minutes ago, Lord Neville X Flash said:

The positive is that Collingwood cannot land Beams and May, hopefully they go for Beams as he has specifically stated he wants to go to collingwood. Then it's a one horse race for May, and GC lose much of it's bargaining power. 

True. But if a gun like beams goes to the pies they will be a lot better next year

[Slartibartfast 17,265]

13 hours ago, Jaded said:

I want him gone. 

I want May. I don’t want another will he won’t he year. I don’t want a player who isn’t all in. I want to improve our list and he feels surplus to our needs. He isn’t committed to us. He needs to leave. 

 

Isn’t Japanese management wonderful. We were told it would likely happen and were horrified but now we are convinced it’s the best thing and we want it to happen! 

At least many of us do anyway. Imagine the outrage if he had been traded with no warning. 

Well played Josh Mahoney. 

[DubDee 25,854]

15 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

This was ,most likely, all it ever was. All this silliness about pick this or that is really irrelevant. 

If you get what you want/need then youve won. What path taken doesn't matter.

Why is this simple notion so hard for many.

So you don’t think using pick 5 for May AND having pick 10 for another trade or using in the draft is a better outcome??

surely this notion isn’t too hard to understand

[Redleg 40,905]

2 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

Jesus, I thought trade period ended tomorrow.   This garbage goes for another week.

One man's garbage is another man's antique.

 

[old55 23,561]

2 minutes ago, Redleg said:

One man's garbage is another man's antique.

 

Agree I love trade period.

[ManDee 7,134]

3 minutes ago, DubDee said:

So you don’t think using pick 5 for May AND having pick 10 for another trade or using in the draft is a better outcome??

surely this notion isn’t too hard to understand

Some desirable outcomes are better than other desirable outcomes. One mans Natalie Portman is anothers Scarlett Johannsen. A good outcome is preferable to a bad outcome, there can be many desirable outcomes. The trick is we don't want to wake up with Uncle Bitters.

[Demonland 72,176]

 

[Demonland 72,176]

2 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

Jesus, I thought trade period ended tomorrow.   This garbage goes for another week.

Finishes Wednesday at 8:30pm right in time for the Demonland Podcast featuring Peter Jackson and our trade week and a half wrap up.

http://demonland.com/podcast

[beelzebub 23,364]

5 minutes ago, Fifty-5 said:

Agree I love trade period.

There aren't many of us  55 l ol

Edited October 10, 2018 by beelzebub

[Gator 17,332]

53 minutes ago, deeboy said:

It's posts like these that expose the soft underbelly of some supporters. 

I'm happy to put my hand up and say I am thrilled with the progress we have made, but that doesn't mean we all need to blindly agree with the club on everything and believe that the club doesn't now make mistakes.

Perhaps you are easily pleased but I want to win a premiership and believe that a dogmatic, ruthless approach is what is required from here with the dealings with Fremantle.

 

I'd argue that a dogmatic ruthless approach is the club's decision to basically push Hogan out the door to better balance the list in its quest for a premiership in 2019.

I'll wait to see the end trade and then form a conclusion as to how well we negotiated.

[ManDee 7,134]

2 minutes ago, ProDee said:

I'd argue that a dogmatic ruthless approach is the club's decision to basically push Hogan out the door to better balance the list in its quest for a premiership in 2019.

I'll wait to see the end trade and then form a conclusion as to how well we negotiated.

That maybe too early ProDee. 

[Pates 9,660]

6 minutes ago, Demonland said:

 

Hehe two can play the PR game ? thanks Gaz!

[beelzebub 23,364]

12 minutes ago, DubDee said:

So you don’t think using pick 5 for May AND having pick 10 for another trade or using in the draft is a better outcome??

surely this notion isn’t too hard to understand

Must be for you as for all your chest beating and broughahas you seem oblivious to the point.

You don't know what cards the club holds...or what it has half a hand on via other tentative deals but it's all about those magic numbers

You presume what certain picks will garner in other trades then call prematurely on something not even done yet.

Trade period is like playing darts with a revolving board. It's a fluid environment where very little is fixed.

 

[Older demon 2,741]

Consider a different scenario, Neale decides he doesn't want to go to Brisbane if Beams isn't going to be there. There goes Pick 5 to the Dockers and dare I say their bargaining power for Hogan. All deals off and we have to promise next years draft to get May

[mauriesy 7,287]

Too many people see trading like swapcards, with an excessive emphasis on relative value.

I'd prefer to see the whole trade period as a holistic exercise. If we have value that we can trade (like a forward or an inside mid) in order to get better improvements to our list where we are lacking (e.g. quality KPB, quality outside, backup ruck) then I don't particularly care what picks are given for an individual.

In the end, it will be immaterial if Hogan goes for less than, or something different to,  two early first round picks. The main criteria is that the list is improved and we are closer to a premiership.

[The Chazz 4,077]

1 minute ago, mauriesy said:

Too many people see trading like swapcards, with an excessive emphasis on relative value.

I'd prefer to see the whole trade period as a holistic exercise. If we have value that we can trade (like a forward or an inside mid) in order to get better improvements to our list where we are lacking (e.g. quality KPB, quality outside, backup ruck) then I don't particularly care what picks are given for an individual.

In the end, it will be immaterial if Hogan goes for less than, or something different to,  two early first round picks. The main criteria is that the list is improved and we are closer to a premiership.

I'm with you Mauriesy.  As it stands, we don't have a first round pick in this year's draft.  We also need a quality, solid key defender, a back up ruck and some speed on the outside.  If we can manage to get all of those things, as well as maintaining a position in the 2nd, 3rd and 4th rounds this year, and all we've lost is Hogan, Tyson and Kent, then it's big ticks from me.

[Redleg 40,905]

8 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

Too many people see trading like swapcards, with an excessive emphasis on relative value.

I'd prefer to see the whole trade period as a holistic exercise. If we have value that we can trade (like a forward or an inside mid) in order to get better improvements to our list where we are lacking (e.g. quality KPB, quality outside, backup ruck) then I don't particularly care what picks are given for an individual.

In the end, it will be immaterial if Hogan goes for less than, or something different to,  two early first round picks. The main criteria is that the list is improved and we are closer to a premiership.

But we might be closer to a premiership by getting a better deal than you are happy to accept.

For example, if we get May, lose Hogan, but say retain pick 5 and draft a gun kid, who comes in and plays every game and eventually adds another 200, that is a better result than not having that pick.

So yes, you can be happy to get a commodore, if all you want is a car to get around, but getting a porsche is a better result.

[mauriesy 7,287]

I didn't say I'd want to give away Hogan for nothing.

[Devil is in the Detail 883]

Any reason why we can't get in on the Neale trade.

MFC get: 5 & 7

Freo get: Hogan + a pick from MFC to fill the gap

Brisbane get: Neale

Edited October 10, 2018 by Devil is in the Detail

[The Chazz 4,077]

2 minutes ago, Redleg said:

But we might be closer to a premiership by getting a better deal than you are happy to accept.

For example, if we get May, lose Hogan, but say retain pick 5 and draft a gun kid, who comes in and plays every game and eventually adds another 200, that is a better result than not having that pick.

So yes, you can be happy to get a commodore, if all you want is a car to get around, but getting a porsche is a better result.

Red, the issue is that if we play too hardball on Hogan, we could end up missing out on any gun kid in this year's draft, as well as missing out on May, and our list is in no different shape than what it was two weeks ago.

[old55 23,561]

3 minutes ago, Redleg said:

But we might be closer to a premiership by getting a better deal than you are happy to accept.

For example, if we get May, lose Hogan, but say retain pick 5 and draft a gun kid, who comes in and plays every game and eventually adds another 200, that is a better result than not having that pick.

So yes, you can be happy to get a commodore, if all you want is a car to get around, but getting a porsche is a better result.

Yeah but you might end up walking home with just the Porsche brochure in hand.

[Jaded No More 68,913]

45 minutes ago, Baghdad Bob said:

Isn’t Japanese management wonderful. We were told it would likely happen and were horrified but now we are convinced it’s the best thing and we want it to happen! 

At least many of us do anyway. Imagine the outrage if he had been traded with no warning. 

Well played Josh Mahoney. 

I've never wanted him to go, while I thought he was committed to the club. 

Now it is clear that he is not committed, so I want him gone. 

There is no point holding onto even the best players, if they are not firmly embedded in what you are trying to achieve.

If Hogan signs a 4 year extension and stays, and doesn't umms and errs about his future every year, I would be thrilled. But he has never done that, and we now have a chance to trade him to significantly better our list. It's time to go. 

[Axis of Bob 11,804]

3 minutes ago, Redleg said:

So yes, you can be happy to get a commodore, if all you want is a car to get around, but getting a porsche is a better result.

It depends if you waste so much time getting a Porsche that you lose the opportunity to buy a better house.

Or you end up spending a year living in your Porsche.