Farewell Jesse Hogan

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

1 minute ago, ManDee said:

You don't need to repond I have already read your views.

So stop quoting me?

I've answered your questions over and over. I'll do it again, for what's this now the fourth time? 2 first round picks isn't enough for Hogan, no matter what they turn into in the future. Literally exactly the answer to everything you've spewed earlier, and repeated again. Jesus it's like banging your head against a brick wall.

We could get a coleman medallist and a brownlow medallist with those picks... We could also get two busts. Picks aren't proven players. Jesse is. Or do I have to repeat that over and over as well?

You still haven't apologised.

[beelzebub 23,390]

You don't judge a single trade in isolation. You look at the whole trade period. 

I.e did you achieve your goals. If so  ✓

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

2 hours ago, ManDee said:

Overreaction or what. You have no idea what the details are. Get a grip man.

 

11 minutes ago, ManDee said:

You may not, but as you keep saying this is a forum for discussion, unfortunately it seems that you like what you say but not opposing views. 

Who quoted who? You don't like my views, then ignore. Or better yet block. I don't have any problem with you thinking things opposite to me. But then I didn't quote you, did I?

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

3 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

You don't judge a single trade in isolation. You look at the whole trade period. 

I.e did you achieve your goals. If so  ✓

I feel the same way... but it takes soooo long to find out sometimes. The Lever one we won't see how it went for years. The trade we made to GET Hogan... which looked genius at the time and in the last 4 years... now how does it look?

I get what you mean though. You have to look at single trade periods, and the larger plan... That's the one thing that has me excited... The more we get our assets playing to their strengths, the better... it's why I never loved the Lever trade. I want Taylor picking players every draft... The guy is great. That at least we have again. Taylor where he should be.

[ManDee 7,354]

12 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

So stop quoting me?

I've answered your questions over and over. I'll do it again, for what's this now the fourth time? 2 first round picks isn't enough for Hogan, no matter what they turn into in the future. Literally exactly the answer to everything you've spewed earlier, and repeated again. Jesus it's like banging your head against a brick wall.

We could get a coleman medallist and a brownlow medallist with those picks... We could also get two busts. Picks aren't proven players. Jesse is. Or do I have to repeat that over and over as well?

You still haven't apologised.

Why would I apologize? Have I been wrong? The truth is nothing has happened yet. Don't get so bent out of shape. You may end up being right. Or wrong.

[Gator 18,050]

3 minutes ago, Dappa Dan said:

The trade we made to GET Hogan... which looked genius at the time...

Just a point of correction.

It didn't look genius at the time.  It was obvious at the time and many here, including me, advocated for it. 

[bing181 9,437]

Sorry to see Jesse go, but understand and it is what it is. 2 first rounders, a bit of haggling lower down, take it. Equally, not sure how the lower picks is going to work, because Freo seem to have traded most of theirs, and after pick 5 their next is currently 77 so ...?

The only issue here is whether we can get May. Plenty seem to be assuming that that's what's going to happen, but it has to be made to work for all concerned first. Plenty of Pies supporters adamant that he's chosen them, and in any case, reports are (grain of salt ...) that May is after a 5 year deal and on good coin.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,525]

13 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

You don't judge a single trade in isolation. You look at the whole trade period. 

I.e did you achieve your goals. If so  ✓

Exactly.

You can only truly judge a trade 5-10 years after it’s happened.  Regardless of the picks we get, it’s what we do with them that counts.

[Redleg 42,076]

1 minute ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

Exactly.

You can only truly judge a trade 5-10 years after it’s happened.  Regardless of the picks we get, it’s what we do with them that counts.

Don’t think it takes 5-10 years to be able to judge a trade. 

1-2 years in most cases.

[ManDee 7,354]

Sorry for asking a question but when did the details of the official Hogan trade get announced? That's what I thought. We have not won or lost in the possible Hogan trade yet. Ok to discuss but easy on the barbs.

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Like the media are already trading picks Freo don't have

#solidsorucres

[Demon Disciple 12,507]

If it is 2 first rounders from Freo, it simply has to involve their first pick (ie. 6 & 10, not 9 & 10).

Trade pick 10 + later pick to GC for May + KK. Get a gorilla Blackman to sure up the defence, KK to run the wings and rebound off hb, then either go to the draft and bring in one of the King twins to develop into that missing KPF (preferably ben as he has proven to be capable at both ends) or trade it for another quality player.

Make the best of a bad situation.

[Adam The God 30,646]

29 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

If it is 2 first rounders from Freo, it simply has to involve their first pick (ie. 6 & 10, not 9 & 10).

Trade pick 10 + later pick to GC for May + KK. Get a gorilla Blackman to sure up the defence, KK to run the wings and rebound off hb, then either go to the draft and bring in one of the King twins to develop into that missing KPF (preferably ben as he has proven to be capable at both ends) or trade it for another quality player.

Make the best of a bad situation.

Well, this post could have been worse...

Edited September 29, 2018 by A F

[ManDee 7,354]

2 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

If it is 2 first rounders from Freo, it simply has to involve their first pick (ie. 6 & 10, not 9 & 10).

Trade pick 10 + later pick to GC for May + KK. Get a gorilla Blackman to sure up the defence, KK to run the wings and rebound off hb, then either go to the draft and bring in one of the King twins to develop into that missing KPF (preferably ben as he has proven to be capable at both ends) or trade it for another quality player.

Make the best of a bad situation.

Plus apparently we have asked if we can trade next year's first pick. If so the possible 6 this year plus next year's first pick for Kelly? That would be making the best of losing  Hogan 

[olisik 4,060]

WE e are in prime position to benefit from the concessions Gold Coast have been given and I hope we bring this into play with the May deal. Instead of just May for pick 10, we could push for Lockard, May, KK and maybe even another state league player for example.

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,525]

19 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Don’t think it takes 5-10 years to be able to judge a trade. 

1-2 years in most cases.

When you’re trading for picks, 5 year minimum imho.  You can’t judge a player by their output as a 20 year old.

Plenty here have called for the heads of Brayshaw, Weideman, Harmes, McDonald x 2.

Olivers and Hogans are the exception.

[Demon from Sydney 50]

To be honest i may be in the minority but ive never liked his head dropping & sulking when he isnt spoon fed the ball.He has some good attributes obviously but very rarely takes a pack mark,isnt really a good set shot kick inside 30m & to me plays for frees too often.Cash in now while we can as he clearly doesn't want to buy into the Melbourne dream.

This may also be blunt but for christs sake everyones dad dies & its a part a life.I just dont get how a supposed grown man eraning 7-800k a year can't survive without mummy. I mean everywhere in Australia is only a maximum of a few hours away from home on these things called planes & you can jump on one at any hour of the day.People all over the world live in different countries & survive & peoples manage to live in different states of Australia too without any drama.

When he goes ill never remember him as a Demons player & will hope he never has any success

[old55 23,850]

There's a lot water to flow under the bridge before the final deal is washed through but 10 for May is not as unreasonable as many seem to be saying.  If we genuinely rate him as the key tall back we need he's going to be worth something like that.

[Matsuo Basho 1,053]

 

I want picks 6 & 10 but would not be surprised if we accept 9 & 10 at the end of the day. Most non-MFC supporters and the AFL industry intelligentsia will reckon that’s about right or even a bit over the odds.

Then ... 

10 & Frost to Suns for May & Kolodjashnij 

9 & 2019 first rounder for Shiel & 2019 second rounder

In: May, Shiel, Kolodjashnij, future GWS 2nd rounder 

Out: Hogan, Frost, future MFC first rounder

* Before anyone bleats about the 2019 first round for second round pick swap element, Melbourne’s first round pick next year is likely to be in the 15-18 range. Pick 9 & 18 for Shiel is about his currency. He is a jet.

This or something like this seems around the mark on what type of outcome we will see here. Fans need to shelve the pie-in-the-sky stuff and be realistic. 

It’d still be a good result for the club. We are not going to take 18yo kids in the first round at this draft given our age profile and entry into a premiership window. We are going to add quality players in the 23 - 27yo age bracket. Just watch.

Edited September 29, 2018 by EnterTheDragon

[beelzebub 23,390]

also...with any exchange of whatever...you might get change..there might be additional players or picks.. So many permutations.

and yet some see it as just this for that.  Its about the big picture....also called the list.

[Demon from Sydney 50]

2 hours ago, Dappa Dan said:

What the crap are you talking about? Do you know what forum you're on? The trade forum on a demons website, right? Have you seen the 100 pages of trade scuttlebbutt that have come before you got on here and started talking crap? Do you even know what the subject here is?

And what... your'e gonna say the sheer amount of media furore we've seen over the last week is nothing, are you? Christ, the noise is even louder than when Scully left.

I'll say it a THIRD time, since you seem to have a tough time understanding. 2 first rounders for Jesse ISN'T ENOUGH. You may agree, you may not. I don't care. I suspect no-one does.

If you wanna stick your fingers in your ears and deny that we're not getting the same value as what he represents for us in the future playing 200 more games... or deny that 2 first rounders REGARDLESS of what we flip them for is unders.... then that's fine. At demonland, and other websites... what we do, you see, is we discuss and debate these things. Usually, experienced posters don't cop abuse from clowns who disagree with differing points of view. Usually when we discuss these things, we offer constructive criticism and examples of trends observed in the past. We don't make ourselves feel better by quoting people we disagree with with absolutely no background behind us.

Just to make it clear yet again... I've been commenting for WEEKS now that 2 first rounders isn't enough. It's been on demonland and in the rumour mill that long. When you've followed the thread that long and engaged for that long, feel free to quote me again... With an apology. Otherwise, bother someone else.

Id take 2 x 1st rounders any day for  someone that is injury prone,over rated by Dees supporters & a mummies boy.People keep saying he has a huge upside....but does he?

I dont like his sulking,playing for frees & missed set shots ftom 30m out

[Jaded No More 68,976]

3 hours ago, Redleg said:

I am already over it and to me Jesse is an opposition player apparently a Docker.

All I care about now is what we get for him in the deal.

Agreed. We did everything right by Hogan yet I feel that he has never truly been a Melbourne man. If he is not with us, then he’s against us. 

While I always loved him as a player, I’ve never felt a strong bond to him like I do other players. He simply hasn’t connected well. He just doesn’t seem invested in the club. Time to let go and get on with the business of winning a flag. 

[deanox 10,059]

20 minutes ago, Demon from Sydney said:

Id take 2 x 1st rounders any day for  someone that is injury prone,over rated by Dees supporters & a mummies boy.People keep saying he has a huge upside....but does he?

I dont like his sulking,playing for frees & missed set shots ftom 30m out

I agree he sulks a bit instead odd playing the whistle, but he has an above average shot conversion and probably deserves the frees he doesn't get. 

But he isn't over rated.  He is one of the top key position forwards in the competition and is only 23. His perceived "weakness" is mostly associated with being double/triple teamed and also games where delivery is worse. One out he is close to the best mark we have. He covers heaps of ground, gets a lot of the ball and has beautiful field kicking.

The injuries are a bigger concern than the rest, given he is a heavy set running. 

That being said, two first rounders is the going price for any player of that age and quality.  The only question is how early should the first rounders be? Personally, I'd want to finish with a top 6 pick as one of them.

 

[Diamond_Jim 12,726]

1 hour ago, ManDee said:

Plus apparently we have asked if we can trade next year's first pick. If so the possible 6 this year plus next year's first pick for Kelly? That would be making the best of losing  Hogan 

6 and say 16 for Kelly... where do we sign !!

[Demon from Sydney 50]

7 minutes ago, deanox said:

I agree he sulks a bit instead odd playing the whistle, but he has an above average shot conversion and probably deserves the frees he doesn't get. 

But he isn't over rated.  He is one of the top key position forwards in the competition and is only 23. His perceived "weakness" is mostly associated with being double/triple teamed and also games where delivery is worse. One out he is close to the best mark we have. He covers heaps of ground, gets a lot of the ball and has beautiful field kicking.

The injuries are a bigger concern than the rest, given he is a heavy set running. 

That being said, two first rounders is the going price for any player of that age and quality.  The only question is how early should the first rounders be? Personally, I'd want to finish with a top 6 pick as one of them.

 

Yeah maybe i was being a bit harsh but in all honesty we will never get a better offer than 2 x 1st rounders.I think we need to cash in & get the lower pick not the option where they may deal with Port & drop our picks down