Has the Biz still got what it takes?

[Scoop Junior 3,513]

Its purely defensive and IMO negative. The Neil Balme award beckons!

There is a misconception that playing a good player in the backline is defensive. Fair enough if they get dragged to the last line, but otherwise it can be an attacking move. You can generate a fair bit of run from behind the ball.

Remember Bruce on Tarrant? Heath Black on Pickett? You can exploit the lazy forward and use your backman as an attacking weapon.

[maximum bob 462]

From what I read here and on 'ology the Bizz has had a good pre-season, is injury free and looks in top shape. There's little point in arguing about who's the better defender (ie Bell etc) at this stage. We effectively didn't see Bizz last year.

Form, matchups and injuries will determine who gets to play when and where. I'm glad we've got him on the list, you could have worse, and he deserves another crack. But he's no cert all the same. It will depend on the circumstances and the way the season unfolds.

[Slartibartfast 17,518]

I well remember seeing Bizzell last year at Optus Oval in a practice match against North. He was back to close to his valuable 2003 form.

It's now 3 years on. Like many have forgotten the input of Moloney and Wheatley because they have not played for some time, Bizzell has also been forgotten IMO.

It's a question of how how good he is. If he is back to close to his 2003 form I doubt anyone would think he wasn't up to it. What we are all struggling with is where do Bell, Whelan, Ward, Brown, Bizzell, Wheatley and perhaps CJ fit into a backline that has Rivers and Carroll in it with perhaps Holland for a big tall.

Whelan is a standout but the rest bunch together. Competition for these spots will be keen. Bizzell is well in the mix. His NAB cup form will tell and until then we just don't know.

We live in exciting times!!

[old55 23,687]

Maybe Babba has improved Bizzell's pace, that's his only hope.

Unless Bruce is given a specific stopping job he's often unaccountable and runs forward of the ball. He's also an unreliable kick, it's debateable whether this is a greater liability in defence or attack. He is capable of kicking 20-30 goals but I think he adds more as a tall attacking back.

Neitz, Robertson, Davey, Dunn, Pickett and Bate are my preferred forward 6. Yze will play and kick 30 or so against a certain type of opponent. They will just have to kick enough goals.

[Gorgoroth 13,016]

ive always loved the bizz and always will, i really hope he does get back to his best as i think he is a great player

he isnt the quickest but he reads the play that well he makes up for some of his lack of pace, the thing between him and others that might run the lines better is he will use the ball a lot better releasing the player further up the field better and eliminates the need to run it out

[Cranky Franky 2,089]

A lot of supporters (as well as players) live in Fantasy Land when it comes to the last year(s) of their favourite players.

Most careers just limp along & fade out. Age & injuries respect nobody.

Look at Carey, Lockett, Modra, Ablett - all should have retired well before they did.

Bizzell was a great player now he is only a spare parts man.

Anyone who thinks he is going to recapture his form of a few years ago is deluded.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I well remember seeing Bizzell last year at Optus Oval in a practice match against North. He was back to close to his valuable 2003 form.

So do I Fan but I would not overstate the performance given the ordinary opposition that day.

It was the sort of match that you would hope Bizzell would do well. No pressure, shoddy opposition who regularly turn the ball over. How many games do you get in AFL like that these days and arent there other players who will serve you just as well and wont disappear like Bizzell (and others) did often when the pressure was on in 2005.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Anyone who thinks he is going to recapture his form of a few years ago is deluded.

In the words of Captain Jack Sparrow, "Not PROBABLE."

Neitz was older than the Biz is now when he started last year, and he went on to have one of the better seasons of his career. Clarke wasn't supposed to play for the Crows last year because he was too old. Harvey, while in decline, is still winning games himself.

Yes, players lose effectiveness, but don't count him out. You can't possibly know whether or not he's going to be an important part of the 22 this year. No-one can, not even the inner sanctum of the MFC match committee. The important thing is he's given an opportunity. That's why he's still on the list (that, and the beefy contract he signed).

[Slartibartfast 17,518]

So do I Fan but I would not overstate the performance given the ordinary opposition that day.

Read into it what you like RR. He was a lot better than a lot of others who I would have thought would be good who weren't.

Look, Biz is no certainty. I just think players who read the play as well as him and have such good skills survive in the game well beyond others who rely on different skills.

I also think supporters get really excited by new talent regardless of how modest it is.

When I was talking to someone about some of our new recruits a few years ago and singing their praises he said "get as excited as you like, I'll wait until they do something". For all Bell, CJ and a few others "excite", they haven't achieved anything compared to Bizzell.

Anyway I'm on record and time will tell.

[grazman 7,451]

Read into it what you like RR. He was a lot better than a lot of others who I would have thought would be good who weren't.

Look, Biz is no certainty. I just think players who read the play as well as him and have such good skills survive in the game well beyond others who rely on different skills.

I also think supporters get really excited by new talent regardless of how modest it is.

When I was talking to someone about some of our new recruits a few years ago and singing their praises he said "get as excited as you like, I'll wait until they do something". For all Bell, CJ and a few others "excite", they haven't achieved anything compared to Bizzell.

Anyway I'm on record and time will tell.

Given that the list is now three years older, and so is Clint, I can't see him being in our best 22. If he is then good luck to him, but it would be an indictment on the notion of "list development"

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

When I was talking to someone about some of our new recruits a few years ago and singing their praises he said "get as excited as you like, I'll wait until they do something". For all Bell, CJ and a few others "excite", they haven't achieved anything compared to Bizzell.

Anyway I'm on record and time will tell.

Its like saying Brock McLean has achieved nothing compared to Nathan Buckley. Both are at different points in their career cycle.

I guess we will see about Bizzell this year. Graz makes a valid point though.

[steve_f 40]

Once you pick Holland or maybe Millr for the gorilla, Choper and Rivers pick themselves.

Then, we need pacy players and Bizzell is the wrong side of 30.

With my new theory thaory that MFC over-emphasises depth, we should not have renewed him in late 2004. This was before Broadbridge's passing, BTW.

[Slartibartfast 17,518]

Its like saying Brock McLean has achieved nothing compared to Nathan Buckley. Both are at different points in their career cycle.

I guess we will see about Bizzell this year. Graz makes a valid point though.

To RR: Rubbish. Brock has had several BOG in his career and has had a significant impact on many games he's played in. Bell and CJ have not. Bizzell has.

To G: Agreed. It just depends on how good Bizzell was, and now is. I believe there is a good chance he is 90% of the player he was. If he isn't then I'm wrong.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

To RR: Rubbish. Brock has had several BOG in his career and has had a significant impact on many games he's played in. Bell and CJ have not. Bizzell has.

The example was to take a player at the end of their career and comparing to those at the start.

Either way Bell, CJ and Bizz all have to justify themselves for selection.

Bizz gains more kuedos on this site and the other site than Bell and CJ and has not performed consistently since 2003.

Has he got it still? I doubt it. But like you we will see this year what he produces.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Once you pick Holland or maybe Millr for the gorilla, Choper and Rivers pick themselves.

Then, we need pacy players and Bizzell is the wrong side of 30.

With my new theory thaory that MFC over-emphasises depth, we should not have renewed him in late 2004. This was before Broadbridge's passing, BTW.

I dont think it is an age thing. If a player is good enough to justify his spot and is the best choice for that position then he should play.. period.

How have you based this theory of "over emphasising depth? Do you mean we have recruited just for depth? Or are you against retaining players you think are no good and what were the available alternatives for MFC to recruit to those you wish to discard?

Bizz justified having his contract renewed for 2 years in 2004. Unfortunately he had the Club over a barrel. Sign me for 3 or walk to the PSD. I am on the record of letting him walk then.

However, lets get the facts right..... Troy died on December 26 2004. MFC renewed Bizz's contract in early 2005. By end of 2004, I thought Troy had taken Bizz's role in the 2004 EF.

But that's all history as Bizz is with MFC for 2007 and I trust he remains fit and firing. I am just not that confident he will.

[Slartibartfast 17,518]

Bizz gains more kuedos on this site and the other site than Bell and CJ and has not performed consistently since 2003.

I think that's my point. Bell and CJ have NEVER performed consistently and we don't know if they can.

[demonfanjezza 1]

I think he still can, but he now has comp[etition from pj and bell for his position, he needs to work hard to regain his spot in the team.

[CARN THE DEES! 14]

pj? dont u mean cj cause i seriously doubt paul johnson performance in the back line

[demonfanjezza 1]

pj? dont u mean cj cause i seriously doubt paul johnson performance in the back line

Opps

i did mean cj-- i got the names mixed up, i knew it was one of the two

Sorry for the confusion

[old55 23,687]

I don't have much problem with Bizzell's ability to read the play, zone off his man and launch attacks. I've got a big problem with his ability to defend. Like Brown and Ward he's not much of a defender. I felt that way since 2004.

[deefuture06 0]

Correct. I had the pleasure of seeing the team train in Wang. Both Bizell and Robbo were moving well and looked fantastic. You dont forget how to play. He will play his "part" this year.(pun intended)

[CarnTheDees 52]

I find it confusing that people are comparing Bizzell with Bell and CJ.

I see Bell as a small, close-checking defender (who'll hopefully move into the midfield later on), in the mould of Doggy Brown. CJ is an out-and-out winger in my books (neither overly defensive or strong in the air), and I'm yet to be convinced of his talents.

Bizzell on the other hand, while he isn't much taller than the other two, he definitely plays taller.

To consider Bizzell's possible influence this season, you have to look at the balance of our back-6, and with the cumbersome Holland around a horses-for-courses approach must be taken.

The only definite starters in our defence for every match (pending fitness of course) are Rivers, Whelan and Carroll.

I'll set up 2 scenarios: The first is one where the opposition has a 'gorilla' full-forward (Gehrig, Rocca...):

B: Whelan, Holland, Carroll

HB: - Rivers -

In this scenario, there are 2 free positions for HBFs. The candidates are Bell, Bizzell, Ward, Brown, Wheatley, CJ, Ferg etc. Bell would be my first choice, then the other one comes down to team balance, form etc. In this situation, the more running style players Ward, Brown etc would most likely be preferred to Bizzell to add pace.

If the opposition doesn't have a 'gorilla', then Holland must go:

B: Whelan Carroll -

HB: - Rivers -

This situation favours Bizzell's inclusion more, because he can pinch hit in a tall role if required, yet there is still room for runners.

Of course, this analysis makes one assumption: That Rivers will finally be entrusted with the CHB position and will be told to play on the opposition's best CHF every week. Time will tell.

[Scoop Junior 3,513]

Good post carnthedees.

I too think Biz is competing with the other "third tall" options. His game is suited to the bigger forwards even if he is outsized. A little quick runner would be a tough gig.

If Holland is wanted for the gorilla, Biz will be in trouble.

If no gorilla, he is then competing with the likes of Frawley, Warnock, Ferg, etc. for that extra tall defender.

I don't think a backline of three talls plus Biz is well balanced. I want our other three options to be able to run.

[Garry Lyon's Leg Hair 0]

Biz has been a great player but and does some freakishly good things at times........I think he tends to hold the ball too long and puts himself and others under a lot of pressure. I recall a stat (from 05, I think) that when Biz got a lot of the ball our winning percentage was pretty high but if he was shut down we lost, not exactly sure what that means but a lot of the play did go via him accross half back (obviously not as much as the Bowden wax on wax off combination). However I'd still rate him above Miller & Holland as a key position player especially in the backline. Biz being down back would definately take pressure of Rivers too and I would be interested to see what might come of Rivers & Biz playing alternate attcking footy out of the backline ie if one goes up the other stays back??

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

pj? dont u mean cj cause i seriously doubt paul johnson performance in the back line

He didn't look too shabby in round 4 when playing a bit in defense. If he can't make it as a forward, why not give him a crack in Holland's role? When the time is right.