POST MATCH DISCUSSION - Round 16

[Bonkers 994]

Salem, Brayshaw, Petracca and Oliver all had great games. Hopefully they will form the nucleus of a good side for years to come.

Frost added much needed speed in the backline as well as height. Definitely stopped a few goals with his closing speed.

Stretch did his job. Got enough of the ball and provided an option on the outside. He covered the ground defensively too. Hopefully he can continue to develop and the FD puts some trust in him over the next few weeks as we definitely need his run in the side.

Spargo didn't have a massive impact but looked like he worked hard. Garlett wasn't a stand out either but he did lay tackles and give us a goal threat.

The defensive side to our game looked to have improved. Quite a few times Freo had to stop their transition play. Not being at the ground it's hard to say whether it was because of how Freo set up or whether it was due to our accountable marking/zone.

If we were to become more efficient with our forward set up and I50 delivery we'd be a top 4 side. Still a lot of long Bombs being dropped on top of a forwards head. I'd like to see the coaches do a lot of work on this part of our game. I don't think it's just the delivery, also the leading patterns and areas where players are being told where to run is having an impact.  

 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,303]

12 hours ago, Rod Grinter Riot Squad said:

Has anyone credited Salem?

 

kid is a gun and deserves some recognition 

I'd love to see him play up the ground more. Kid has good goal sense which is invaluable. Salem to the middle, Jones to half back? I know we like his kicking out of defence but it feels like were not using him to his full capabilities.

[JV7 2,354]

It's hard to get a gauge on it due to the opposition & conditions but we defintely did defend better this week. We had that goal keeper/full back usually Omac or Frost behind the ball at most times, hard to pick up on TV but it seemed as though what the coaching staff put in place during the week worked. We'll know more next week against a bit better opposition.

We struggled in the first 5 rounds adjusting to the way we wanted to set up defensively with Lever so there's no doubt it was going to take the same if not more for the coaching staff & players to adjust without Lever. Big game next week, if only it was at our etihad fortress!

[DeleteUser 638]

3 hours ago, Deemented Are Go! said:

Jeez dude, just watch the World Cup, or the golf, or re-runs of Midsomer Murders or something. 

Strange! 

I get the soccer jibe but let's not pile into the Royal and Ancient game and let's certainly leave Midsomer Murders alone! (Besides there was no golf or MM on)

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

5 hours ago, M_9 said:

Haven't seen any games for a month (OS). Are the Swans all that flash? I reckon they play Etihad well. They rarely play on the 'G. Yeah I know, our record on the 'G is ... Just reckon it'll be 50-50.

Yeah, from what I've seen I think they deserve to be considered above us. They're not quite as powerful as they were this time last year as they went towards finals, but they have the quality, and their kids are doing a power of work. We haven't improved much at all... so based off last year's game where they humiliated us, I have them winning comfortably.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,303]

3 hours ago, CBDees said:

I hardly think we are comparing like with like. Tyson was BOG yesterday for Casey with 145 Dreamtime points (playing in far more testing conditions)! Why not just say that Stretch played a good game?

In the VFL against a team who didn't score a goal.

[Deemented Are Go! 3,684]

8 minutes ago, timbo said:

I get the soccer jibe but let's not pile into the Royal and Ancient game and let's certainly leave Midsomer Murders alone! (Besides there was no golf or MM on)

No jibes here. Just musing with the poster why bother to watch something in fast forward? 

And the PGA tour was on just before our game last evening. 

And ok, the MM reference was a jibe. Cos that show sux. ?

 

 

[What 18,810]

All four ins gave us something, and made the team more balanced.  Stretch a huge upgrade on Tyson in the outside/link role.

 

[Gator 17,474]

Our congested forward-line is annoying, as is our ability to spot up targets, but let's not forget we've scored more than any other team in the AFL and are 100 points ahead of the next best (Richmond).  1561 next best 1461.  And that won't change after today's games.

[The Swimming Dee 1,904]

Dermott Brereton talks a very large amount of turd

[Bates Mate 4,510]

4 minutes ago, The Swimming Dee said:

Dermott Brereton talks a very large amount of turd

Ive learned to tune out everytime he opens his mouth

[frankie_d 1,471]

12 hours ago, buck_nekkid said:

I a.ways thought Lyon was going to jam up our 50, and moreso the 20-40 metre zone that we target.  Fill it with big blokes, and as Demons lead into this space, the incoming ball can be cut off.  

sometimes it was so bad they had no structure forward of the ball.  We had our press super high, and we were still 50m behind them sometimes.  Free had no chance playing like this.

no wonder we dominated inside 50s.

We didn’t handle the pill well, conditions or not.

lets bank the 4 points, recover, and get set for next week.

worried about Lewis.  Undisciplined elbow gives up 50m.  Doesn’t bend down for balls in dispute.  Not behaviours to be rewarded.

I remember Watts vs Lewis a few years ago, coming from opposite directions to contest a ground ball. Watts put his head over it and Lewis didn't. I thought it might be a sign from Jack, but no. Lewis has four flags, so wins any argument, but I don't like him trying to hack the ball out of a contest. Put your head over it..

[Adam The God 30,420]

3 hours ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Oliver has leather poisoning again:  a game-high 35 disposals, 19 contested possessions, seven tackles, seven inside 50s and two goals.

Only half way thru his 3rd year!  Not yet 21. 

A star on the way to becoming an elite superstar!

His superior disposal and pace is where he has Cripps covered as the best young mid in the game. We're very lucky to have him.

[Redleg 41,451]

2 hours ago, ProDee said:

My main takeaways were Frost and Stretch.

Sometimes it's easy to focus on what a player doesn't do well and lose sight of what they can do well.  Frost's size, speed and strength were a welcome addition to a back-line that has struggled since Lever went down.  He'll still occasionally frustrate, but he's clearly the best second tall and he'll make life far easier for Oscar.  If he plays to his limitations he'll be pivotal to the remainder of our season.

Billy is a neat player, but I didn't see any AFL quality attributes.  I did last night.  He worked hard, showed some zip, positioned himself well and made himself an option.  He can become an accomplished AFL player.  He's also testament to a player working on their craft at the next level down and showing how sustained form in the VFL can make you a better player.

Happy to say I was wrong on both.

Billy also has good disposal and set up a goal for us a few times.

It is frustrating for supporters who clearly don't know what the Coaches do, to basically call for yesterday's side and finally get it and record a good win. We will never know, but I am confident in saying, that side last night would have won the Port and Saints games.Frost for Petty alone, had to be worth a goal to us, or one less to the Saints.

Several of us called for Frost in when Lever went down, with Billy and one of Jeffy or Charlie to add strength, pace, crumbing and better disposal skill. Instead IMO we got a completely unbalanced top heavy and less skilled side and lost two close games. IMO the Coaches need to accept some responsibility for those losses and effectively putting our finals chances on a knife edge. Win both and we are probably safe in the eight.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,303]

19 minutes ago, The Swimming Dee said:

Dermott Brereton talks a very large amount of turd

My favourite part was when he was analysing the Brayshaw kids backyard footy match that he didn't see 10 years ago.

[Redleg 41,451]

Just on a side note. VDB's hard 15 tackles yesterday were fantastic and I think he worried and hurt a few of the opposition. If he can get himself match fit, with his size and other attributes he could still be a very handy player for us.

Look forward to seeing more of McKenna in better conditions, as it was impossible to assess his ability in the torrential rain.

Edited July 8, 2018 by Redleg

[sue 9,145]

3 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

My favourite part was when he was analysing the Brayshaw kids backyard footy match that he didn't see 10 years ago.

No worse than his analysis of the footy match in front of his eyes.

[Redleg 41,451]

1 minute ago, sue said:

No worse than his analysis of the footy match in front of his eyes.

Good post.

[The Swimming Dee 1,904]

Just now, sue said:

No worse than his analysis of the footy match in front of his eyes.

He does not understand today’s game.

And I really cannot stand all his tough talk. “Put your head over it. Good boy”. Give me a break

 

[Gator 17,474]

8 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Billy also has good disposal and set up a goal for us a few times.

It is frustrating for supporters who clearly don't know what the Coaches do, to basically call for yesterday's side and finally get it and record a good win. We will never know, but I am confident in saying, that side last night would have won the Port and Saints games.Frost for Petty alone, had to be worth a goal to us, or one less to the Saints.

Several of us called for Frost in when Lever went down, with Billy and one of Jeffy or Charlie to add strength, pace, crumbing and better disposal skill. Instead IMO we got a completely unbalanced top heavy and less skilled side and lost two close games. IMO the Coaches need to accept some responsibility for those losses and effectively putting our finals chances on a knife edge. Win both and we are probably safe in the eight.

We should have beaten Port irrespective of Frost or Stretch.  19 times out of 20 team's with our stats win that game.

And there are no guarantees we beat St kilda.  We may have only lost by 2 points, but we were 27 points down with about 5 minutes to go.  Gifting them goals from 3 or 4 50 metre penalties didn't help.

Notwithstanding, I agree that selections have been surprising.  It was clear we needed a small forward after the port loss.  I was very surprised one of Spargo or Garlett didn't play against St Kilda.  

Frost has been out of favour for reasons we all know.  It's hard for me to be too critical of Goodwin for not selecting Frost because I didn't want him in for the same reasons.  That said, it's now evident he should have been given an opportunity earlier and certainly before Petty.

[PaulRB 6,411]

12 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Just on a side note. VDB's hard 15 tackles yesterday were fantastic and I think he worried and hurt a few of the opposition. If he can get himself match fit, with his size and other attributes he could still be a very handy player for us.

Look forward to seeing more of McKenna in better conditions, as it was impossible to assess his ability in the torrential rain.

Yep great to see Vandenberg prowling and bullicking, will be a fine addition in a couple of weeks. 

[titan_uranus 25,044]

12 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Our forward line structure is a mess, one passage of play summed it up:

Viney won a centre clearance, was streaming forward with no one around him, looked up and had no one to kick it to so he had to handball to Spargo.

It was a shocking handball, but that’s irrelevant because imagine not having forward options to kick to after the forwards have had a centre bounce to set up properly. 

I’d hazard a guess that this wasn’t because we didn’t have options but instead because Freo had one or two extra men, and Viney was trying not to do the usual “long to the goal square pack mark attempt” kick.

12 hours ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Our forwards are most lead-up style players but we are forever sitting it on their heads hoping someone will take a screamer.

A big problem is they start too far up the ground, they should be in the goal square leading out to mark 30 metres out, instead they have to just stand 30 metres out and watch opposition defenders pick off the high ball.

Agree - couldn’t tell last night on the TV but certainly last week every forward started at least 30m from goal and most then move fowards. No one available to lead up at the kick coming in. Needs to change IMO.

3 hours ago, Dee Zephyr said:

I believe we finished with 71% time in forward half yet Oscar covered the most distance for us on the night. 

I can only put that down to our high defensive press. I could be wrong but Freo only had 28 inside 50s for the night.

If that’s true, I reckon that says a lot about our improved defensive running from last week. To me that suggests we worked harder to get the press moving side to side and up/down the ground when in defence. 

2 hours ago, ProDee said:

My main takeaways were Frost and Stretch.

Sometimes it's easy to focus on what a player doesn't do well and lose sight of what they can do well.  Frost's size, speed and strength were a welcome addition to a back-line that has struggled since Lever went down.  He'll still occasionally frustrate, but he's clearly the best second tall and he'll make life far easier for Oscar.  If he plays to his limitations he'll be pivotal to the remainder of our season.

Billy is a neat player, but I didn't see any AFL quality attributes.  I did last night.  He worked hard, showed some zip, positioned himself well and made himself an option.  He can become an accomplished AFL player.  He's also testament to a player working on their craft at the next level down and showing how sustained form in the VFL can make you a better player.

Happy to say I was wrong on both.

I’m the same on Stretch - I particularly liked his side steps and evasiveness. 

As to Frost, I’d like to see how he goes against a side which generates a bit more attack than Fremantle, but good signs first up. 

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

The first thing is partly to blame for the second. Not only do we let easy goals out the back when we press so high, we congest the space in our forward 50 meaning it's impossible to pass to a free player and also impossible to get a free shot at goal. How many times do we get the ball inside 50 and have to handball 4 or 5 times to try and get a player with enough space that they can actually have a shot at goal? Push the press back a bit and we will intercept further up the ground allowing us to open the field up more and slice through opposition defences easier.

We're getting so much of the footy but not doing enough with it. It's been our problem all year so I'm not willing to pass it off as bad conditions. That was a 100 point win last night but we left 8 goals on the table. Two set shots from ANB and one from Gawn for starters plus probably at least 2 or 3 each from Hogan and Petracca. Brayshaw sprayed a couple as well on the run. We really should've smacked them although our conversion picked up after half time.

The players looked absolutely stuffed after half time too so of it impacts our ability to run out the game next week I'll be furious. I don't care what benefit we get from these games financially, it ruins our run home when the players can't recover for their next game or 2. I'm not convinced having the bye or an "extended break" before QBD is going to help much either.

Can’t help but agree re: Darwin. I reckon every time a player comments on it they toe the party line, rather than sounding like they genuinely enjoy it. 

[Gator 17,474]

I've gone from recently being a fan of Brereton to now finding him unlistenable.  He was cringeworthy last night.

I used to accept that he'd take 200 words to say something when 20 would do, but he's now become a parody of himself when he basically makes things up to suit a narrative.  No greater case in point was his critique of Hogan's first mark of the match.  Hogan took the sensible and safe option to take a chest mark because he knew he could and it would already have been slipperier conditions than what they're used to playing in.  Sure it wouldn't have been as bad as the second half, but all night it would have been an issue.

Another was when he was critical of Tom McDonald when he slid in front of an opposition defender only to drop a straight forward mark.  It was great play and certainly a better option than having body contact when he didn't need to, which is what Brereton recommended. 

The guy is just too eager to show off how smart he is.

[Gator 17,474]

3 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

As to Frost, I’d like to see how he goes against a side which generates a bit more attack than Fremantle, but good signs first up. 

Frost will have poor games, but he showed in one match that he's the best option, which was my main point.

[binman 43,803]

1 minute ago, ProDee said:

I've gone from recently being a fan of Brereton to now finding him unlistenable.  He was cringeworthy last night.

I used to accept that he'd take 200 words to say something when 20 would do, but he's now become a parody of himself when he basically makes things up to suit a narrative.  No greater case in point was his critique of Hogan's first mark of the match.  Hogan took the sensible and safe option to take a chest mark because he knew he could and it would already have been slipperier conditions than what they're used to playing in.  Sure it wouldn't have been as bad as the second half, but all night it would have been an issue.

Another was when he was critical of Tom McDonald when he slid in front of an opposition defender only to drop a straight forward mark.  It was great play and certainly a better option than having body contact when he didn't need to, which is what Brereton recommended. 

The guy is just too eager to show off how smart he is.

Seem an ok bloke but embarrassing as a commentator. Makes up words and phrases and mangles the English language in what sounds an attempt to sound intelligent.  

Any number of examples last night. One being his description of a 50 metre penalty as something like and 'on field territory penalty' .  

The comment about TMac's mark attempt was plain weird because Tmac should have marked it as in Dermie like words 'tom enginered a clean, unchallenged run at the oval leather transference in such a way that he was unimpeded by the defensive player giving him free access to the ball and statistically a very high chance of stopping the forward motion of the ball long enough to be awarded the mark by the officiating official'