where is stuie when you really need him?

8 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

where is stuie when you really need him?

Last seen busily banning people from his Facebook group

How was he sexually harassed ?

Just now, DavidNeitz9 said:

How was he sexually harassed ?

Unsure at this stage but from what I'm trying to piece together I think it was from his teammates, maybe changeroom stuff? Hard to piece this story together, what happened was awful, unsure why it's flared up all of a sudden, maybe after the Ross Lyon issue it sparked up again. Think hes just been delisted in the NFL also? Was this the guy who had a raking left foot that they were calling super-boot or was it someone else?

1 minute ago, SFebey said:

Unsure at this stage but from what I'm trying to piece together I think it was from his teammates, maybe changeroom stuff? Hard to piece this story together, what happened was awful, unsure why it's flared up all of a sudden, maybe after the Ross Lyon issue it sparked up again. Think hes just been delisted in the NFL also? Was this the guy who had a raking left foot that they were calling super-boot or was it someone else?

Thanks mate, from memory he left the Cardinals at the end of 2016 to have another crack at AFL

3 minutes ago, SFebey said:

Unsure at this stage but from what I'm trying to piece together I think it was from his teammates, maybe changeroom stuff? Hard to piece this story together, what happened was awful, unsure why it's flared up all of a sudden, maybe after the Ross Lyon issue it sparked up again. Think hes just been delisted in the NFL also? Was this the guy who had a raking left foot that they were calling super-boot or was it someone else?

I believe I heard on SEN last night Joel will speak to the media today. Have you heard similar?

Just now, Dee Zephyr said:

I believe I heard on SEN last night Joel will speak to the media today. Have you heard similar?

Haven't heard that yet but his lawyer did speak to SEN yesterday afternoon, some clarity on the whole thing would be good as he's apparently going after his team mates also.

Speaking on SEN now - press conference

Seems like he has it in for the AFL and trying to make a statement.

Not just about what happened years ago but whats happening today also in the dark rooms of the AFL.

Going to human rights commission and federal court.

No detail to work with to form judgement

I think it is magnificent that he is making a stand... 

So now having read some the media and seen the lawyer interview it is indeed appalling that he was subjected to this vilification on field and allegedly off it. But I do note that there was a contrite and fulsome public apology from the Bulldogs player concerned and clubs along with the AFL appeared to make an attempt to deal with this including taking away a supporters membership etc. 

And while there are claims from the 'no fee no win ' lawyer that the behaviour was institutionalised, ongoing and nothing was done it is hard to comment further without knowing the full facts.

But like the Adam Goodes 'ape' case where McGuire made a contrite and fulsome public apology it appears that this is not enough for some. In Goodes case he refused to accept McGuire's apology and i believe he lost a lot of support from the general public over that. It remains to be seen what the AFL did to mitigate Wilkinson's situation and whether that was significantly deficient or whether lawyers have concvinced him to chase a payout. Certainly this behaviour does not appear to be prevalent on the AFL today (I am guessing we would hear about it if it was) 

Aside from these two cases and along with the #metoo movements etc there does appear to be some kind of new, developing trend where a kind of retiribution is sought in the form of financial penalties, public vilification, loss of job and livelihood etc for past behaviour sometimes even in cases that would appear to have been resolved via apologies, payouts and the like.

It's a messy world and I hope that Wilkinson finds his peace with things but I can't help but worry in a broader sense when alleged 'perpetrators' are forced to resign from positions or suffer public humiliation often without the burden of proof being tested.

Apologies by those in the media that are ordered to do so don't hold much weight imo.  From memory Eddie had 3 goes at his 'apology' until he started to sound the least bit remorseful

So I don't hold it against those vilified to not just accept such apologies if the offense taken was great in the first instance

15 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

So now having read some the media and seen the lawyer interview it is indeed appalling that he was subjected to this vilification on field and allegedly off it. But I do note that there was a contrite and fulsome public apology from the Bulldogs player concerned and clubs along with the AFL appeared to make an attempt to deal with this including taking away a supporters membership etc. 

And while there are claims from the 'no fee no win ' lawyer that the behaviour was institutionalised, ongoing and nothing was done it is hard to comment further without knowing the full facts.

But like the Adam Goodes 'ape' case where McGuire made a contrite and fulsome public apology it appears that this is not enough for some. In Goodes case he refused to accept McGuire's apology and i believe he lost a lot of support from the general public over that. It remains to be seen what the AFL did to mitigate Wilkinson's situation and whether that was significantly deficient or whether lawyers have concvinced him to chase a payout. Certainly this behaviour does not appear to be prevalent on the AFL today (I am guessing we would hear about it if it was) 

Aside from these two cases and along with the #metoo movements etc there does appear to be some kind of new, developing trend where a kind of retiribution is sought in the form of financial penalties, public vilification, loss of job and livelihood etc for past behaviour sometimes even in cases that would appear to have been resolved via apologies, payouts and the like.

It's a messy world and I hope that Wilkinson finds his peace with things but I can't help but worry in a broader sense when alleged 'perpetrators' are forced to resign from positions or suffer public humiliation often without the burden of proof being tested.

My take @jnrmac after reading the media, is rather than calling out individuals (as he been effectively dealt with ie: Sherman) he is after significant cultural shift within AFL clubs and by default the AFL itself. It's less about the coin and more about the principle for Wilkinson and to create change for others existing in the current system and for those who will enter it.

2 minutes ago, Danelska said:

My take @jnrmac after reading the media, is rather than calling out individuals (as he been effectively dealt with ie: Sherman) he is after significant cultural shift within AFL clubs and by default the AFL itself. It's less about the coin and more about the principle for Wilkinson and to create change for others existing in the current system and for those who will enter it.

That's my take too. Unsure what goes on in the background but from the outside the AFL has tidied up many things since his incident and a cultural shift Australia wide is much better than it was 5-10 years ago. Things take time to evolve unfortunately.

"I have suffered extreme racism during my time in the AFL and post my career from the AFL until this very day."

If the AFL and the clubs were racist organisations he would not have been working in the industry and he certainly wouldn't have been paid a salary that is many times the average wage. 

I'm sure he believes he was harshly treated but I hate the thought of living in a world where anyone can just sue anyone else and demand financial sanctions because they feel aggrieved by things that other people may or may not have said. People become so bitter and twisted by things that happen to them, that it clouds their judgement as to whether a course of action is justified. In the long run he would be much better off by moving on with his life and not wasting it feeling angry about things that happened in his past.

 

 

Looks like just another chump looking for a dollar.

Not that it has stopped us in the past but it appears we are debating and forming opinions on a situation where there is absolutely no clarity about the issues involved in the case.

There are no specifics to discuss and there may never be...

People seem to be holding an entrenched position before any facts have come out.

Interesting...

9 minutes ago, poita said:

"I have suffered extreme racism during my time in the AFL and post my career from the AFL until this very day."

If the AFL and the clubs were racist organisations he would not have been working in the industry and he certainly wouldn't have been paid a salary that is many times the average wage. 

I'm sure he believes he was harshly treated but I hate the thought of living in a world where anyone can just sue anyone else and demand financial sanctions because they feel aggrieved by things that other people may or may not have said. People become so bitter and twisted by things that happen to them, that it clouds their judgement as to whether a course of action is justified. In the long run he would be much better off by moving on with his life and not wasting it feeling angry about things that happened in his past.

 

 

That's a long way off the mark.  There are plenty of businesses and organisations with racist/sexist/homophobic cultures that still employ the people they overtly or inadvertently discriminate against.  An issue around education (and in many cases flat out denial) is that people who undertake racist/sexist behaviours people don't know or believe that that's what they're doing.

Reading between the lines, there seems to have been regular comments or 'jokes' about Wilkinson in the locker room.  These comments have been described as racial and sexual in nature.  When you put two and two together, you can take an educated guess at what these comments may have been.  The people making these comments may not have been fully aware of the effect that these comments can have on a person.  If Wilkinson then sought assistance from those in power and nothing was done to educate or correct these behaviours, then that's an institutionalised/cultural workplace issue.

Same thing goes for a senior coach making slurred comments about a subordinates 'breasts' at a Christmas party.  Usually, it's not the initial comments or actions, it the organisations response that is truly telling.

It reads to me that Wilkinson is saying that his issues were ignored or not dealt with adequately and he wants to ensure that if someone else is in his position, they are supported.

45 minutes ago, Danelska said:

My take @jnrmac after reading the media, is rather than calling out individuals (as he been effectively dealt with ie: Sherman) he is after significant cultural shift within AFL clubs and by default the AFL itself. It's less about the coin and more about the principle for Wilkinson and to create change for others existing in the current system and for those who will enter it.

You may well be right. It will be interesting to see if others come out and say similar things. You just reckon in today's world you would hear about it immediately if it was happening regularly.

3 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

You may well be right. It will be interesting to see if others come out and say similar things. You just reckon in today's world you would hear about it immediately if it was happening regularly.

According to the radio, two other players have come forward, unsure who at this stage.

16 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

You may well be right. It will be interesting to see if others come out and say similar things. You just reckon in today's world you would hear about it immediately if it was happening regularly.

Hopefully the tipping point is close for that (maybe the next generation, as there is a clear groundswell) - but not yet, not when you want to fit in, have a career, not be turfed out the door... "keep your head down" is still an appropriate way for people to cope through these things, because (as has been seen here) they're labelled as precious... Imagine having THAT dichotomy to deal with on a daily basis...the experience of getting vilified (real or perceived) and noting that the best way is to stay mum, to retain your gig. 

Anecdote time from a current player to empahsise this. Said club has change of sponsorship at start of year... marketing person says to coach who is wearing 2017's gear... "Cough cough sir... just to let you know, you need to be wearing x, y, z top.". Said coach, tells staff member to [censored] off and mind his own business in a public setting. I'm pretty certain if I was marketing person (bloke) I would retreat into my shell... positions of power etc etc... now imagine if that was in a real business world and the fall out from that - this does not happen in clubland.  Now imagine it when its about your skin colour, choice of sexuality, etc etc... and people are outwardly/implicitly sanctioning that behaviour because they too are fearful of reprisal in whatever way it would come. I would feel so so stuck and in disbelief... but then it's ALSO the 18years of this stuff that Wilkinson has had prior, via society.

sorry @jnrmac - not a dig at you... i just feel so passionate about this and the gulf between antiquated and more evolved (imo) thinking on the matter... 

methinks some are into phrenology on this site.

I usually stick up for Australia when we are accused of being a racist country but maybe I should stop

I am saddened by a lot of the views and opinions posted in this thread. Racist remarks of any kind are vile and cut so deep. comparing racist comments to other types of name calling or blokey banter is ridiculous.

it is not upto the victim to 'move on', quit AFL or cop it on the chin. Racism is not acceptable. full stop.

we still have a long way to go it seems

23 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Like I said, I know nothing about the specific circumstances of this player.

Perhaps reading the article before having an opinion on it would be a start 

19 hours ago, dworship said:

At various times in my life I've been called a smart c, a dumb c, a young c, and currently an old c. Not once in these assaults on my feelings did I think I should lodge a grievance. Perhaps that was me agreeing with the perp at the time or it was more probable I didn't give a rats *nacker for the opinion of unsophisticated, illiterate neanderthals. Sorry, but I think feelings have become so "precious" we are at risk of being sanitised to death.

Since when were the smart, dumb, young and old considered a minority? Senseless comment. 

20 minutes ago, Smokey said:

Perhaps reading the article before having an opinion on it would be a start 

I didn't originally proffer an opinion on this particular case if you read my comments.  

20 hours ago, dworship said:

At various times in my life I've been called a smart c, a dumb c, a young c, and currently an old c. Not once in these assaults on my feelings did I think I should lodge a grievance. Perhaps that was me agreeing with the perp at the time or it was more probable I didn't give a rats *nacker for the opinion of unsophisticated, illiterate neanderthals. Sorry, but I think feelings have become so "precious" we are at risk of being sanitised to death.

Snowflakes melt really easily

Sticks and stones....