Gaming - we are out!

[DaveyDee 421]

8 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

You are right of course Deanox and it will soon become obvious that sports betting is the same.

No longer is it the days of the walk down to the TAB for a few dollars or the occasional visit to the track for a Saturday afternoon flutter. It is a sophisticated 24 hour a day addiction pumped to vulnerable people by means of their umbilical cord otherwise known as their smartphone.

Ask yourself why have football betting when there is plenty of racing to bet on. The answer is that it is another market ie. young people who think that it is easy money.

I don't object to race betting. It is an industry that has been around for a few hundred years and is here to stay. It is the insidious proliferation of sports betting into all other sports that worries me.

O by the way do you think the Diamonds are a good bet in the Netball this Commonwealth games? My grand daughter wants to puts a few dollars of her pocket money on them.

You need to teach your grand-daughter that to answer that question you probably need around 40-50 hrs of form analysis, then take that form analysis and have the ability to frame your own markets - a strong back ground in mathematics, probability and computer literacy .   Helps.  Now she is up against professionals ie   Bookmakers with deep pockets - it’s not easy money it’s a tough, tough grind. 

However, if she wants to take the “lazy option” she is probably better to stick with tattslotto like her grand-parents generation probably did.  But remind her the odds of winning lotto. 

[Red and Blue realist 2,026]

7 minutes ago, poita said:

The more I think about this decision, the more I hate it.

For the AFL community to decide that pokies are the work of the devil on one hand, but support the betting agencies on the other, is incredibly hypocritical. However this is fairly typical of an industry that chooses to go all in on certain causes and turn a blind eye to others, depending on the views of its financial backers.

The more I think about this, the more it seems like a pure business decision. The Age article has been updated to show we sold out of Leighaok for $11 million, noting that we've still got Bentleigh for 3 years then have that asset to deal with (which you'd expect a better return). 

While having a 'feel good' element about the deal, there's every chance that due to the continual changing nature of the gaming industry and the increase in costs associated, it was just the best time to get out. Generate a return on the sale of the assets, and then use them to invest into other income generating assets (although they haven't said what they are). 

If those funds are used to help fund a new admin/training facility which might also be used in a commercial sense and we stop having to pay rent for our existing spaces, then this could be the most important move this administration has made.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,648]

16 hours ago, Salems Lot said:

interesting from a strategic move; we have less to lose due to lower revenue than the bigger clubs who will feel enormous pressure to get out of this area.

We lose $11m but the Filth stand to lose double that.

 

 

1 hour ago, Cards13 said:

What kind of return would you get if you put $11m in the bank? 

Let's clarify. The $11 million figure is what the players who play pokies at the MFC venues lose each year. It's not what the club makes. Out of that $11 million comes state tax, GST, payments to staff, equipment costs and a licence fee to the State Government for an entitlement for each poker machine used. According to the club (as reported in the media today), the club makes about $2 million a year from the pokies.

That's still a significant amount of money, but to break even we're not talking about having to find a new source of $11 million per year.

 

Edit: I appreciate Cards13 might have been talking about the $11 million that it is reported we might get from selling the Leighoak, not the $11 million per annum lost on the pokies.

Edited April 4, 2018 by La Dee-vina Comedia

[Gator 17,260]

58 minutes ago, jackaub said:

Selling to another operator isjust transferring the problem washing hands after getting them soiled.

Whilst looks good in press release does nothing to  address the underlying issue

We  will no doubt book a capital profit on the sale

I for one would reallybe impressed if this ill gotten profit was reinvested in programmes assisting the victims

Now that  really something to crow about

They aren't "victims".

[deanox 9,663]

2 minutes ago, ProDee said:

They aren't "victims".

Of course they are. There are hundreds of millions of dollars of design and marketing and science brought together for the sole purpose of trapping people into addiction. The machines aren't fun to play and provide no entertainment value. The fact that only a small proportion of people even use the machines demonstrates this. They are designed to exploit. If you think that people choose to do this, that they have any control or that they have the abilty to out smart the hundreds of millions of dollars then you lack understanding of the situation.

[Gator 17,260]

Just now, deanox said:

Of course they are. There are hundreds of millions of dollars of design and marketing and science brought together for the sole purpose of trapping people into addiction. The machines aren't fun to play and provide no entertainment value. The fact that only a small proportion of people even use the machines demonstrates this. They are designed to exploit. If you think that people choose to do this, that they have any control or that they have the abilty to out smart the hundreds of millions of dollars then you lack understanding of the situation.

Let's just say I disagree with your pseudo science.

I fully accept these insidious machines are programmed to pay out less than is put in and I think they're vile.  

However, they are far from victims and I'm in the camp that believes addiction is not a disease.  Take some personal responsibility, or don't.  I'm all for assistance for people wanting to break their addiction, but they need to be ready to help themselves.

[binman 41,966]

49 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

You are right of course Deanox and it will soon become obvious that sports betting is the same.

No longer is it the days of the walk down to the TAB for a few dollars or the occasional visit to the track for a Saturday afternoon flutter. It is a sophisticated 24 hour a day addiction pumped to vulnerable people by means of their umbilical cord otherwise known as their smartphone.

Ask yourself why have football betting when there is plenty of racing to bet on. The answer is that it is another market ie. young people who think that it is easy money.

I don't object to race betting. It is an industry that has been around for a few hundred years and is here to stay. It is the insidious proliferation of sports betting into all other sports that worries me.

O by the way do you think the Diamonds are a good bet in the Netball this Commonwealth games? My grand daughter wants to puts a few dollars of her pocket money on them.

I'm a punter. Ponies are my fist love but also enjoy footy betting. However agree 100% about your concerns about sports betting, particularly those related to the impact on young people who are growing up to connect sport and betting in a way that no other generation has. And of course that's exactly what the bookies want, with the aim of a generation of people consuming their product.

 It is pathetic that the AFL takes sponsorship dollars from online bookmakers and allows betting to so insidiously infiltrate football.

I can't stand the constant ads on radio and TV either and have no doubt that betting advertising will go the way of cigarette advertising within the next decade or so. As it should. 

[Sir Why You Little 36,653]

57 minutes ago, poita said:

The more I think about this decision, the more I hate it.

My 7 year old son has probably never seen a poker machine in his life, and certainly wouldn't know what to do with one. For most people they are 

For the AFL community to decide that pokies are the work of the devil on one hand, but support the betting agencies on the other, is incredibly hypocritical. However this is fairly typical of an industry that chooses to go all in on certain causes and turn a blind eye to others, depending on the views of its financial backers.

 

 

My gripe 100% Poita

Well said

[Dr. Gonzo 23,713]

30 minutes ago, deanox said:

Of course they are. There are hundreds of millions of dollars of design and marketing and science brought together for the sole purpose of trapping people into addiction. The machines aren't fun to play and provide no entertainment value. The fact that only a small proportion of people even use the machines demonstrates this. They are designed to exploit. If you think that people choose to do this, that they have any control or that they have the abilty to out smart the hundreds of millions of dollars then you lack understanding of the situation.

You just described marketing, advertising and capitalism.

[jnrmac 19,896]

12 hours ago, Jara said:

Proud of the club. I'm going to upgrade my membership.

 

And BTW, what's with all these people rabbiting on about "virtue signalling"? I never even heard the phrase until there past couple of years - now Andrew Bolt says it every time he opens his mouth (and his lackeys follow suite).  I don't get it. Are they saying that, from now on, it's impossible to do anything for an honourable motive? That all you're doing is "virtue-signallng" - i.e., I presume,  telling the world how good you are?  Weird.  

You just did it.

Do you feel better telling the world what a virtuous person you are? And not only back-handing everyone that has a different opinion to you? Are you seeking pats on the back from this community?

Why don't you just do it rather than telling the world (or in this case Demonland) what a wonderful person you are....

 

[jackaub 1,402]

10 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

You just did it.

Do you feel better telling the world what a virtuous person you are? And not only back-handing everyone that has a different opinion to you? Are you seeking pats on the back from this community?

Why don't you just do it rather than telling the world (or in this case Demonland) what a wonderful person you are....

 

also called "seeming" as in seeming to be a caring soul for the express purpose of gratification

 

[Cards13 9,117]

2 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

 

Let's clarify. The $11 million figure is what the players who play pokies at the MFC venues lose each year. It's not what the club makes. Out of that $11 million comes state tax, GST, payments to staff, equipment costs and a licence fee to the State Government for an entitlement for each poker machine used. According to the club (as reported in the media today), the club makes about $2 million a year from the pokies.

That's still a significant amount of money, but to break even we're not talking about having to find a new source of $11 million per year.

 

Edit: I appreciate Cards13 might have been talking about the $11 million that it is reported we might get from selling the Leighoak, not the $11 million per annum lost on the pokies.

Hey mate,

From the Jake Niall article, we will recieve close to $11m from MVRC.. thus the question of what return we'd get if we plonked that into a bank? 

Melbourne will reap close to $11 million this year by selling their gaming venue as part of the club’s decision to take the lead in exiting from poker machines...

..will receive almost $11 million from Moonee Valley in a sale that will take effect on July 31.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/gambling-exit-demons-hit-the-jackpot-with-11m-20180404-p4z7p7.html

Edited April 5, 2018 by Cards13

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

6 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

Hey mate,

From the Jake Niall article, we will recieve close to $11m from MVRC.. thus the question of what return we'd get if we plonked that into a bank? 

Melbourne will reap close to $11 million this year by selling their gaming venue as part of the club’s decision to take the lead in exiting from poker machines...

..will receive almost $11 million from Moonee Valley in a sale that will take effect on July 31.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/gambling-exit-demons-hit-the-jackpot-with-11m-20180404-p4z7p7.html

3% from a bank if lucky the way interest rates are now.

[binman 41,966]

1 hour ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You just described marketing, advertising and capitalism.

Which is precisely why there is growing movement questioning if capitalism has mutated into something that great economic thinker like Milton Friedman could barely recognise and that it it is no longer functioning in way that is good for society (for instance by creating an ever increasing disparity between the wealthy and poor) 

[Red and Blue realist 2,026]

10 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

Hey mate,

From the Jake Niall article, we will recieve close to $11m from MVRC.. thus the question of what return we'd get if we plonked that into a bank? 

Melbourne will reap close to $11 million this year by selling their gaming venue as part of the club’s decision to take the lead in exiting from poker machines...

..will receive almost $11 million from Moonee Valley in a sale that will take effect on July 31.

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/gambling-exit-demons-hit-the-jackpot-with-11m-20180404-p4z7p7.html

Not as simple as just dumping the funds into the bank and getting a 3% return if we're lucky, it'll be about what they use those funds to invest/build so that we either replace the lost revenue or alternatively be able to reduce down costs overall - for instance removing some/all of the leasing we are currently paying (which was around $1.8m last year - but the financial report doesn't break down what that covers). 

[Gator 17,260]

2 minutes ago, binman said:

Which is precisely why there is growing movement questioning if capitalism has mutated into something that great economic thinker like Milton Friedman could barely recognise and that it it is no longer functioning in way that is good for society (for instance by creating an ever increasing disparity between the wealthy and poor) 

Ah, the great Milton Friedman.  A  conservative, a free market proponent, and anti big government.

He also, rightly, didn't believe in a minimum wage.

Thank you for quoting him.

[DV8 2,271]

11 hours ago, BillyBeane said:

Perhaps the tea leaves have been read and the club is preparing for the AFL being anti-pokies at some stage in the future.  The agreement ends in 2021 so thats still 3 years of revenue we can collect while preparing other streams.

Do we have to continue the bentleigh club, til 2021 ?   Or can we shut the pokies down and sell the place?

[daisycutter 29,338]

19 minutes ago, binman said:

Which is precisely why there is growing movement questioning if capitalism has mutated into something that great economic thinker like Milton Friedman could barely recognise and that it it is no longer functioning in way that is good for society (for instance by creating an ever increasing disparity between the wealthy and poor) 

errr......wrong forum

[DV8 2,271]

21 minutes ago, binman said:

Which is precisely why there is growing movement questioning if capitalism has mutated into something that great economic thinker like Milton Friedman could barely recognise and that it it is no longer functioning in way that is good for society (for instance by creating an ever increasing disparity between the wealthy and poor) 

most footy supporters are from the lower half of this equation.

If footy is about community, and the rotation of goodwill, & also money moving across that community, how is it good for most of it  (money) to end-up in the pocket of too few ?

 

This is not good for anything, Let alone footy and community.

[Adam The God 29,392]

52 minutes ago, binman said:

Which is precisely why there is growing movement questioning if capitalism has mutated into something that great economic thinker like Milton Friedman could barely recognise and that it it is no longer functioning in way that is good for society (for instance by creating an ever increasing disparity between the wealthy and poor) 

That's neoliberalism. The capitalist system isn't inherently wrong or ugly, but when you think like a neoliberal and act like one, the capitalist system then widens the disparity between the small amount of rich and the vast number of poor.

Ah, what am I doing engaging in politics online? 

At the end of the day, this is a good move for the football club financially and the ethical/moral repercussions are thankfully a fortunate byproduct. What we're then left with is a stronger public image (encouraging membership growth) and an attractive and healthy corporate image, which can be used to seduce corporate sponsorship.

[Adam The God 29,392]

50 minutes ago, ProDee said:

Ah, the great Milton Friedman.  A  conservative, a free market proponent, and anti big government.

He also, rightly, didn't believe in a minimum wage.

Thank you for quoting him.

But he did believe in a universal basic income, which the Greens have now adopted. Funny that.

[jnrmac 19,896]

51 minutes ago, binman said:

Which is precisely why there is growing movement questioning if capitalism has mutated into something that great economic thinker like Milton Friedman could barely recognise and that it it is no longer functioning in way that is good for society (for instance by creating an ever increasing disparity between the wealthy and poor) 

Sorry but I can't let this slide. This kind of BS gets trotted out out all the time. What does it mean exactly?

Did you know that in 2000 the UN set a goal to eradicate global poverty by 2030. And the amount of poverty in the world has reduced by 50% since 2000? By any measure this is an unbelievable achievement in history.

But no, the doomsayers claim that inequality is rising and the gap between wealthy and poor is rising....I dispute that but even if it was the case, poverty is being eradicated which is actually a better outcome.

And I'll give you a tip for free, this has been done through capitalism.

Celebrate some good in the world.

 

 

[Dr. Gonzo 23,713]

1 hour ago, binman said:

Which is precisely why there is growing movement questioning if capitalism has mutated into something that great economic thinker like Milton Friedman could barely recognise and that it it is no longer functioning in way that is good for society (for instance by creating an ever increasing disparity between the wealthy and poor) 

I don't necessarily disagree with that. I don't think the MFC needs to be a martyr to the cause though.

[Gator 17,260]

23 minutes ago, A F said:

But he did believe in a universal basic income, which the Greens have now adopted. Funny that.

I never said he was perfect.

[Moonshadow 17,551]

Many, many decades ago, a crowd nearing 100,000 used to watch and bet heavily on the heads of the Baron river rowing carnival. My understanding is they removed betting on it and the crowds faded. The most recent event there was barely attended by three dogs and a cat. 

Remove all betting from horse racing and the industry would quickly fold. Not going to happen, but it exists due to gambling. 

Footy has become more reliant on gambling than ever before, it's insidious. 

Is the AFL now dependant upon gambling for survival?