Farewell Jack Watts

[beelzebub 23,383]

Just now, --coach-- said:

Is something about to happen that will get my pulse up? And I don’t mean horizontal fun times?

no...its just that the Jack Watts saga is like watching for the inevitable.  We all know whats going to happen...not if...when !!

[Adam The God 30,432]

21 minutes ago, Nasher said:

You're not sitting on the fence, you just recognise the complexity of the situation.

It's possible to appreciate Jack's loyalty through terrible times, feel appreciative of the good footy he has played and feel some attachment to him, AND think that if he is consistently still not reaching the standards required of a player of his standing, then he should probably go. The two positions aren't mutually exclusive.

As always though, most people want to see things in black and white.

Indeed. I'm glad you wrote this, mate. I couldn't be bothered editing my post with "but maybe they're not mutually exclusive". Apparently, I could be bothered writing it here though. Strange world.

[—coach— 3,496]

Just now, beelzebub said:

no...its just that the Jack Watts saga is like watching for the inevitable.  We all know whats going to happen...not if...when !!

Ahh I see. I’ve been trying to ignore the JW stuff on here but the emotional claptrap from both sides is getting rather dull!

[Dr. Gonzo 24,333]

2 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Weideman is clearly behind so many players from his draft - just google the list, there are too many players to mention. In fact, you need look no further than the MFC. Clayton Oliver was from his draft. Charlie Curnow makes him look like a teenager.

Even though the same latitude has never been extended to Jack Watts (who was unfavourably compared with Nik Nat from day one), I am loathe to do this with Weideman.

Why? Because it lacks a proper appreciation of his development curve and it would be unfair to do so. I think he has enormous potential and I have high hopes for him.

But, as compared with say Charlie Curnow, I have to say his performance thus far has been a bit underwhelming. I'm not slitting my wrists about it though, nor am I putting the slipper into him.

Because I am rational. And fair and reasonable.

 

Ron I love your posts but I can't understand this comparison. Weideman is in his 2nd season, Watts in his 9th. Weideman may have underwhelmed so far but it's apples and oranges.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,333]

2 hours ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

If all of Geelong, Port and Sydney low ball us with offers (pick 30 and beyond), then surely Watts stays?

Doubt it. I think their mind is made up regardless of what we get for him. 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,333]

3 hours ago, ProDee said:

The speeches were telling.

Viney mentioned Oliver was the hardest trainer at the club and lo and behold he wins the B&F.

Lewis spoke of begrudgingly doing "extras" as he was thanking some of the coaching staff.

Does anyone here thinks Watts trains hard or does all he can to be the best he can be ?

But still the fawning and excuses will continue. 

But but but not everyone has to be a hard trainer like Viney or Oliver. A club has to be made up of different types and different personalities. Kids and sponsors love Jack. Maybe what we see is what we get with Watts and it's just OUR expectations that are out of whack. It's our fault because we're expecting the Messiah and taking it out on him cause he didn't live up to the hype. Watts is already as good as he'll ever be it's just cause Goodwin hates him for some unknown reason that he's willing to get rid of a matchwinner and all round good guy in some bizarre attempt to cut of his nose to spite his face. I'm not renewing my membership.

Or something.

 

/sarcasm

Edited October 10, 2017 by Dr. Gonzo

[jackaub 1,402]

2 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Doubt it. I think their mind is made up regardless of what we get for him. 

Why would that be Dr ?Surely he cant of really pissedthem off that badly

If that is the case they would accept anything for him like a round 5 pick

That cant happen!

Surely  no relationship is that badly damaged

Maybe the FD knows Jack doesent give a stuff about his football career

Beggars me to be honest.

[Beetle 4,686]

1 hour ago, the rolling fog said:

How else do you fill your time in Adelaide? Certainly no Alberton Polo to attend 

Smash west end cans and smoke bongs.

[rpfc 28,786]

22 minutes ago, Nasher said:

You're not sitting on the fence, you just recognise the complexity of the situation.

It's possible to appreciate Jack's loyalty through terrible times, feel appreciative of the good footy he has played and feel some attachment to him, AND think that if he is consistently still not reaching the standards required of a player of his standing, then he should probably go. The two positions aren't mutually exclusive.

As always though, most people want to see things in black and white.

Too true.

Black and white makes arguments easier.

But I love the beauty of grey.

The truth is in there.

 

PS. Can we stop being complete d!cks to each other over this? We would all lament his lack of commitment and marvel at his skills.

We all want what is best for club - deal with it.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,333]

Just now, jackaub said:

Why would that be Dr ?Surely he cant of really pissedthem off that badly

If that is the case they would accept anything for him like a round 5 pick

That cant happen!

Surely  no relationship is that badly damaged

Maybe the FD knows Jack doesent give a stuff about his football career

Beggars me to be honest.

He won't go for a round 5 pick. We'll get a late 2nd founder at worst I'd say. POSSIBLY early 3rd founder but unlikely.

Club has outlined their reasons for moving him on, that's not gonna change.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,333]

2 hours ago, Beetle said:

The irony is that if he does leave, he most likely will start to train harder and do those "extras" and finally become the player we always hoped he would be...

 

But he won't ever be that player at Melbourne. That's the problem I think.

[jackaub 1,402]

My point is Dr why would another club offer anything given the club has decided he goes no matter what

[Gator 17,488]

2 hours ago, Bombay Airconditioning said:

I think most of us are aware of Watts attitude with regards to training, no doubt he could apply himself better, but there are still numerous situations during a game when I'd rather the ball be in his hands than that of his teammates.

He's very good with the footy in his hands, which is about 2% in a 120 minute game of footy or 4% for the Dees.

Since Jack entered the AFL 72 teams have played finals and every single one of them managed to do that without his lovely kicking skills.

We'll be fine without him.

[george_on_the_outer 7,721]

1 minute ago, jackaub said:

My point is Dr why would another club offer anything given the club has decided he goes no matter what

Same reason Jake Stringer is fielding options,....he has value

[McQueen 17,867]

37 minutes ago, Vogon Poetry said:

Where on earth have I refused to acknowledge that Watts has only brought one good season?

Read Nashers post above and see if the fog clears for you or do you really just not get it?

Seriously?

I can see the complexities clearly but have a different point of view - one that you seem to be unable to comprehend.

We should've traded Watts years ago but instead hung on in, waiting in hope that he'd become the player we thought he could.

If you're able to take the blinkers off, you will take note of the FACT that watts has not yet left the MFC. But you allude to the supporters thanking him for his past service and putting up with a club that was run by inept people. He played his part in that ineptitudeness and hasn't been able to rectify his behaviour or change with the club. 

If you can't see my point of there being a large portion of the Melbourne faithful still celebrating a bloke who is a serial under-performer then you have no chance of comprehending the footy departments view either.

 

Edited October 10, 2017 by McQueen

[Leoncelli_36 2,264]

48 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

That's fine, but what about the last four years when none of that has been an issue but Watts continues to not prepare properly and not perform as expected?

Spot on Clint Biz...and this is the reason the club has f....g had enough...

[jnrmac 20,189]

2 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

Good points Jnr but footballers aren't usually known for their tact and eloquence when receiving awards and most of what is said is throw away lines to avoid the spotlight and get off the podium ASAP, with few exceptions who love the spotlight and can't help themselves.

The club may be proven (or may not) to have done the right thing in good time but it's the way they aired the dirty laundry and gone about it that seems to have some, including myself, questioning the culture and methods down there.

The other issue is that Watts can be a good player on the day, he can be very good, but has also shown on many occasions that he can be a lot less also.  The other issue is we have many on the non-performing front who I would happily see delisted before Watts, and before Watts became "the issue" that the FD has decided to stomp over in the press and stamp its marker on.

He has definitely gone though, and the question to your last paragraph is THE most critical outcome to this whole debacle.   What/who do we get in return?   Unless it's a classy outsider who can hit targets consistently by foot, kick accurately from set shots and is a more competitive beast generally around the pill, then we will probably have lost on this one.

He is almost a carbon copy of Sylvia. Do you want a team of people that can't be relied upon and do not commit to being professional? I don't. I want 22 players every week that will try their guts out to win this club a flag. Players that will do everything in their power to improve and strive for greatness.

Talent on its own is overrated.

Roos implored the players to choose to be great. Watts got dropped from the pre-season games. Says it all really.

 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,333]

11 minutes ago, jackaub said:

My point is Dr why would another club offer anything given the club has decided he goes no matter what

Well it will depend on how it plays out. Say Watts nominates one club it makes it trickier for us. However most clubs these days are pretty good when it comes to the trade table (except apparently Essendon and the Crows) and won't try and stiff us cos they know next time if the shoes on the other foot we will reciprocate. I can't see us getting lower than a 3rd rounder for him.

Put it this way, we would be pretty stupid to tell him to look at his options, send him around Australia looking at different clubs, talking to different clubs, nominating a club - and then we say, sorry we're not willing to send you there because we want a better draft pick. At the end of the day I think we'll take what we can get but we'll be hoping for a pick in the 20s.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,333]

2 hours ago, Ron Burgundy said:

On the flip side of the coin, I'm very impressed with how invested in this club the leadership group are to have endorsed this decision despite their close personal associations and affection for Watts.

I too am a Jack Watts fan. And I too remain very disappointed about this.

 

Agreed, I think the Leadership Group are determined to get success, look at Jones and Viney's speeches last night.

I like Jack Watts as a person and when he's "on" - I wish it didn't come to this.

[jnrmac 20,189]

20 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

But but but not everyone has to be a hard trainer like Viney or Oliver. A club has to be made up of different types and different personalities. Kids and sponsors love Jack. Maybe what we see is what we get with Watts and it's just OUR expectations that are out of whack. It's our fault because we're expecting the Messiah and taking it out on him cause he didn't live up to the hype. Watts is already as good as he'll ever be it's just cause Goodwin hates him for some unknown reason that he's willing to get rid of a matchwinner and all round good guy in some bizarre attempt to cut of his nose to spite his face. I'm not renewing my membership.

Or something.

This is such a BS line. It wouldn't matter of watts was pick 60 If he doesn't put in the work that is required.

In fact your whole post is BS. Goodwin hates him? Watts a matchwinner? - one game out of 150? Are you serious?

Watts is a good guy therefore we should keep him? 

Thank the Lord you aren't in charge of our list or we wouldn't win a flag for 100 years. But we would have a team of good blokes. Seriously its pathetic.

[daisycutter 29,747]

after an aggressive attack on the ball, jack is now only 5 runs behind jake

who will be first to the 150 milestone. i'm tipping jack

[Dr. Gonzo 24,333]

1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

The point is not so much the timing, it's how they have aired the dirt in the press. Regardless of whether he should be kept / traded,  a loyal and long time player at the club deserved to be treated better on the way out publicly. The public can be told a different story to the message being conveyed via the FD & LG.. Very poorly handled.  

Peter Jackson also gone MIA.  The fish rots at the head guys.  And there's not an old Demon bone amongst the lot, other than one Mr Todd Viney.  Care factor!!???

They're professionals, that's like saying in 1982 "what would Sheedy care about Essendon, he's an old Tiger from way back"

Why should Peter Jackson get involved in list management decisions? Stop the "scattergun" of blame and look at the root cause, the common denominator.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,333]

4 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

This is such a BS line. It wouldn't matter of watts was pick 60 If he doesn't put in the work that is required.

In fact your whole post is BS. Goodwin hates him? Watts a matchwinner? - one game out of 150? Are you serious?

Watts is a good guy therefore we should keep him? 

Thank the Lord you aren't in charge of our list or we wouldn't win a flag for 100 years. But we would have a team of good blokes. Seriously its pathetic.

I think you misunderstood the context of my post. Completely.

[old dee 23,873]

I have a gut feeling he will be at the MFC in 2018.

Rumour says he does not want to move interstate that reduces the options.

Not sure the available clubs will pay what the MFC want.

If he leaves I think it will be a late deal.

Could be "who blinks first"

 

Edited October 10, 2017 by old dee

[beelzebub 23,383]

2 minutes ago, old dee said:

I have a gut feeling he will be at the MFC in 2018.

Rumour says he does not want to move interstate that reduces the options.

Not sure the available clubs will pay what the MFC want.

 

suspect he'll be setting up shop  on the Bellarine OD.....just my gut feeling

The MFC have set the scene for a bag of crisps etc.  All the rhetoric is papering over cracks really

Edited October 10, 2017 by beelzebub