1 hour ago, btdemon said:

 If he goes to Collingwood or Geelong it will be hard to watch him realise his potential at the new club. It will be even harder, and more heartbreaking, if he disappears in to obscurity and suffers as a person. For that reason I wish him all the success in the future.

Potential is such a dirty word.  Whatever merits others may think that the pre-season commando courses might have, the aim of such things isn't just about bonding - its about getting individuals to understand their physical and mental limits.  Will any individual reach their 'potential' if they just don't care enough.

How did Watts go during preseason?  We know he came back in less than ideal condition (not uncommon in clubs, but for a bloke entering his 9th season its not that common). One poster has already alluded to their being issues about Watts and his attitude on the preseason camp.  I think his potential is more perception than reality.  

He may very well have a good season next year, but he has two years to run on his contract, not one.

4 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Jesse will be much better on the roam. I always think he looks like a caged lion when in the goalsquare

Hogan is also a very good field kick. Needs to get the defensive pressure right, if he is to play further up field.

If Hogan can get the full season on deck, roaming around the ground, McDonald at Full Forward will win our goal kicking handsomely. Still say he is the best contested mark at our club, and his kicking is not a liability up forward.  It removed a backline weakness, while adding a forward line strength. We will be much stronger for it.

 

19 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

No. TMac will be down forward. I have been told that from within. 

This is why the Lever trade is pivotal. Without it i doubt Jack would be up for sale

Does this 22 also have Pedo in it? Or is TMac doing back up ruck work as well?

 

 

1 minute ago, faultydet said:

Hogan is also a very good field kick. Needs to get the defensive pressure right, if he is to play further up field.

If Hogan can get the full season on deck, roaming around the ground, McDonald at Full Forward will win our goal kicking handsomely. Still say he is the best contested mark at our club, and his kicking is not a liability up forward.  It removed a backline weakness, while adding a forward line strength. We will be much stronger for it.

 

Sure. Which means if we pay a little overs for Lever i have no problem at all

1 minute ago, Ron Burgundy said:

Does this 22 also have Pedo in it? Or is TMac doing back up ruck work as well?

 

 

I would include Pedo in any 22 

he gives 110% and yes he can Back Up in the Ruck

Just now, Ron Burgundy said:

Does this 22 also have Pedo in it? Or is TMac doing back up ruck work as well?

 

 

On this years output, Pedo should have been in the AA squad.

Deserves first chance at relief ruck next season. Can also bust open packs. Underrated player.

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Well in light of these "startling" stats I am of the opinion that the Goodwin coaching staff and Footy Dept are in Sgt. Shultz land

" I Know Nothing"!

The more I think about it the more I believe the club is making a Cataclysmic error trading JW! Period!

What data and criteria do Champion Data use to rank players on forward pressure?

 

Pedo is at the end of his career, Weideman is still unproven , if watts was not valuable why did we throw into the ruck so often? 

Contrary to popular belief you can't be soft if your crashing your body around fir the team as an undersuzed ruck.

fortunately, with jason Taylor at the helm we have a recruiter that prioritises competitiveness, combativeness and desire. He wouldnt have touched watts back in the 08 draft despite the hype. 

2 hours ago, Redleg said:

I agree and didn't want to clear him or Dunn and now Jack.

However, I am a fan and I have to trust the people that PJ trusts to get the job done. I have no other choice.

This is a tough call that is polarising, but tough calls often have to be made.

It may be a good call, or a bad call, history will tell us that.

ATM it is the call and the club has to move on and try to keep improving.

I will trust this FD to get that job done.

If they fail, they will go.

Time to show support for the club.

Awesome

Another 'rebuild' 

Don't think I can take anothereee

2 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

fortunately, with jason Taylor at the helm we have a recruiter that prioritises competitiveness, combativeness and desire. He wouldnt have touched watts back in the 08 draft despite the hype. 

Can you give me tonight's lotto numbers?

5 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

Awesome

Another 'rebuild' 

Don't think I can take anothereee

Hopefully you won't have to.

10 minutes ago, DeeZee said:

Pedo is at the end of his career, Weideman is still unproven , if watts was not valuable why did we throw into the ruck so often? 

Contrary to popular belief you can't be soft if your crashing your body around fir the team as an undersuzed ruck.

All the more reason to be worried that Jack has F$&@ked up somewhere

of course the MFC need him, but because of what has happened (or not happened) his worth to us has been rendered as not usable....

1 hour ago, mo64 said:

And that's my issue with you. You are constantly putting Roos on a pedestal, and giving Goodwin a whack whenever you can. 

You've never criticised Roos for trading Howe, but want to scrutinise the result of the Watts trade to the nth degree, when most on here realise that it will take many years before it can be measured.

I don't rate Howe.

The perceived pedestal I have put Roos on is earned in my opinion. One of the greatest coaches of modern times. I feel like I have criticised his final year as I heard first hand he was distant and not involved and I shared as much here. With Goodwin I have seen a couple of things this year that frustrate me, but even then I would preface it with two things; he has an exciting brand of footy, and he managed great buy in from those talented enough to execute his plan.

Getting back to Howe - there was a period where I didn't post much and that was effectively during and after that trade, but nevertheless, it was a trade that I was not that interested in because I didn't rate him as a HFF or a HBF. Howe also didn't play, in 2016, to the level he has this year and that was my reference to Hibberd - if we are to judge that trade now - where we would put him in our current team would have to shape that argument. 

And I also realise that the coming Watts trade will not be judged for years - so we are in agreement there too.

13 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

fortunately, with jason Taylor at the helm we have a recruiter that prioritises competitiveness, combativeness and desire. He wouldnt have touched watts back in the 08 draft despite the hype. 

This is absolutely unreliable, but I'd thought the recruiting department is not happy about this potential trade.

Agree that JT is a very good recruiter though.

 

15 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

fortunately, with jason Taylor at the helm we have a recruiter that prioritises competitiveness, combativeness and desire. He wouldnt have touched watts back in the 08 draft despite the hype. 

As an aside, and I don't think it's remotely relevant anymore, but a few years ago Gubby Allen told me that virtually every club had Watts as their first pick in 2008. Kevin Sheedy was standing next to him and nodded in agreement.

Suspect JT would actually have picked him. I thought we should've picked Hurley.

 

Fellow demonlanders

I for the life of me cannot understand why Goodwin wants jack gone

Excellent 2016

I thought his 2017 was very very good till he got injured

Had the guts flogged out of him rucking with gawn out

Looked to me like he did a power of work during those games

Gets injured and takes time to find form, 

Loves the club and stayed when could of jumped ship

Im not sold on Goodwin and this isnt exactly helping

Like everyone else on here suffered through some really dark days

And just when we see a flicker of light they pull this rubbish

Im so sick of holding in my breath and holding tight

This must not happen ,the fact that 5/6 clubs are chasing him shows he has value,they cant all be wrong

I cant believe im saying this but i will not be a member again if this happens

55 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Jesse will be much better on the roam. I always think he looks like a caged lion when in the goalsquare

I reckon he can become a sensational midfielder

Jason Taylor did exceptionally well plucking Olly and withstanding the pressure to go for Essendon's Parish.

But he so far has shown absolutely no sign of judging talls - Sam Weideman before Charlie Curnow, both Kings, Hulett, Filipovic. 

Even Prenderghastly was better in this area - he can lay claim to Gawn, T.Mac and Howey - all for second or third rounders.

So while there's a chance that if he was drafting in 2008, JT would have overlooked Wattsy, there's also a reasonably high chance that he would have passed on NicNat that year as well. Probably would have passed on Hurley as well and gone straight for Chris Yarran!

 

3 minutes ago, Slim said:

Fellow demonlanders

I for the life of me cannot understand why Goodwin wants jack gone

Excellent 2016

I thought his 2017 was very very good till he got injured

Had the guts flogged out of him rucking with gawn out

Looked to me like he did a power of work during those games

Gets injured and takes time to find form, 

Loves the club and stayed when could of jumped ship

Im not sold on Goodwin and this isnt exactly helping

Like everyone else on here suffered through some really dark days

And just when we see a flicker of light they pull this rubbish

Im so sick of holding in my breath and holding tight

This must not happen ,the fact that 5/6 clubs are chasing him shows he has value,they cant all be wrong

I cant believe im saying this but i will not be a member again if this happens

It's going to happen, Slim - off to Geelong

I reckon #10 and #20 will be used for Lever

Hogans of most value to the team when he is playing up the ground using his running ability to provide an option, as well as being stationed deep forward when he needs a rest.

Watts I feel complemented Hogan quite well, with both making each other better players. Interested to see how Hogan and TMAC will combine without Watts there

 

I think your right jumbo ,just hoping it dosent happen

750k for lever i hope it works because in my humble opinion massive overs

8 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

It's going to happen, Slim - off to Geelong

I reckon #10 and #20 will be used for Lever

I don't like that trade - we can discuss it in the Lever thread but we have leverage (no pun intended) and ND10 and change (ND45 or a middle finger machine will do).

24 minutes ago, Ron Burgundy said:

As an aside, and I don't think it's remotely relevant anymore, but a few years ago Gubby Allen told me that virtually every club had Watts as their first pick in 2008. Kevin Sheedy was standing next to him and nodded in agreement.

Suspect JT would actually have picked him. I thought we should've picked Hurley.

 

I've often had the feeling ever since then that, though we picked Watts, we really wanted Hurley. And we've been trying to turn Watts into Hurley ever since.

Where Jack goes now, he'll fit into the team (or not) according to where they think his skills will be most valuable to them. That would be much better for him than having to play like somebody else.

Seems to me that to some degree, we've been trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. And then try to hammer that peg when it won't fit.

20 minutes ago, Deespicable said:

But he so far has shown absolutely no sign of judging talls - Sam Weideman before Charlie Curnow,

 

Deespicable even the genius at Carlton who selected Curnow, picked Harry McKay ahead of him.  

Its easy to throw stones in hindsight.