I'm really warming to bringing in Trenners. C'min Goody, give him a chance

We have being playing short for the last 7-8 weeks without a ruckman. 

 

Replacing a small (jones) with a tall (Gawn) only brings the side back to a status quo for height. 

 

If anyone was to go it it would be Omac or Frost as pedo and watts stay fwd and Tmac returns to the backline. I don't think hibberd plays the third tall role (Jetta flys for more spoils) and is a flanker thus there is room for Omac or Frost in that role. 

2 hours ago, Nasher said:

Out: Jones

In: Gawn

Easy as that I think.

Misson says he expects Watts, Hunt and Jetta to all get up. No mention at all of Hibberd - where has that talk come from?

Bummed about Jones though. That's interfered with my mood more than any injury has this year including Hogan. Not because he's the best player but because he's not supposed to break, feels like it's upset the universe a bit.

And because we are finally not playing like hot garbage and he deserves to enjoy that, not sit on the sidelines. So frustrating!

49 minutes ago, DubDee said:

If Kennedy doesn't play they have the dinosaur Petrie and Darling at key talls with Vardy occasionally resting in the fwd. 

i reckon we are too tall if we have:

watts, pedo up fwd with Gawn ruck

and T Mac, O Mac and Frost at the back

thoughts? Should we drop a tall? Want to make we maximise run and have some good distributors at the back

You've made a few points along these lines and haven't had many responses, but I agree with you.  Structurally we have dilemmas.

Our last 6 quarters have been very good and it's no coincidence Frost and Oscar have been the key backs with Tom playing 55% ruck and the rest of the time either forward or bench.   

With Gawn back what do we do with Tom and Pedersen.  It's logical to play Pedersen forward with stints on the ball, but Tom McDonald is a poor key forward if that's his main role.  Playing on ball and drifting forward works for him, but I doubt being positioned predominantly forward works for Tom.  And do we want a forward-line of Pedersen, Watts, and Tom McDonald when a smaller forward-line has been working so well ?  

This issue is only compounded further when Hogan is ready.

I can't see a role for Tom McDonald forward (especially when Jesse comes back) and the last thing I want to see is the two McDonalds down back with frost.

1 hour ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

I am amazed off a second 6 day break on the longest plane trip to play on the longest ground we will play the same side aside from Gawn in and Jones out. I expect 3 changes purely to rest bodies in prep for Sydney the following week and just due to the differing conditions.

As I said, this is the least winnable game we have in 6 weeks. If we go into this underdone and risk serious injury, the long term effects will be season breaking. 

 

1 hour ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

Sorry, I may be missing your point. Does that not confirm it is the longest ground?

Yep. Was just giving the dimensions. Don't panic

8 minutes ago, ProDee said:

You've made a few points along these lines and haven't had many responses, but I agree with you.  Structurally we have dilemmas.

Our last 6 quarters have been very good and it's no coincidence Frost and Oscar have been the key backs with Tom playing 55% ruck and the rest of the time either forward or bench.   

With Gawn back what do we do with Tom and Pedersen.  It's logical to play Pedersen forward with stints on the ball, but Tom McDonald is a poor key forward if that's his main role.  Playing on ball and drifting forward works for him, but I doubt being positioned predominantly forward works for Tom.  And do we want a forward-line of Pedersen, Watts, and Tom McDonald when a smaller forward-line has been working so well ?  

This issue is only compounded further when Hogan is ready.

I can't see a role for Tom McDonald forward (especially when Jesse comes back) and the last thing I want to see is the two McDonalds down back with frost.

Thanks for response mate. Thought I was going nuts for a bit there. 

Interesting selection coming up!

2 hours ago, Demon Jack said:

While far from confirmed, here are some reviews of Maynard's VFL performances so far this year. Seems to be tracking very nicely. 

http://www.aflplayerratings.com.au/Ratings/Player/125130/Corey-MAYNARD

From what I've seen not sure he is ready. I also don't think there is a spot on the list 

22 minutes ago, Jock Strap said:

I'm really warming to bringing in Trenners. C'min Goody, give him a chance

The wide open spaces of Subi surely don't suit his lack of pace 

14 minutes ago, Demons11 said:

From what I've seen not sure he is ready. I also don't think there is a spot on the list 

We could put Tim Smith on the LTI list

2 minutes ago, ProDee said:

You've made a few points along these lines and haven't had many responses, but I agree with you.  Structurally we have dilemmas.

Our last 6 quarters have been very good and it's no coincidence Frost and Oscar have been the key backs with Tom playing 55% ruck and the rest of the time either forward or bench.   

With Gawn back what do we do with Tom and Pedersen.  It's logical to play Pedersen forward with stints on the ball, but Tom McDonald is a poor key forward if that's his main role.  Playing on ball and drifting forward works for him, but I doubt being positioned predominantly forward works for Tom.  And do we want a forward-line of Pedersen, Watts, and Tom McDonald when a smaller forward-line has been working so well ?  

This issue is only compounded further when Hogan is ready.

I can't see a role for Tom McDonald forward (especially when Jesse comes back) and the last thing I want to see is the two McDonalds down back with frost.

Last week against Geelong the Weagles had 5 players over 190cm.

Vardy 200, McKenzie 197, Schofield 196, McGovern 195, Barass 194, Darling 191

We have Watts 196, Gawn 208, Frost 194, TMac 194, OMac 196, Pederson 193

Last year we should have won the game against WCE at Domain. In the tall contests we got beaten physically rather than by pure height. The Eagles trailed at every change, conceded 66 inside 50s to 37,and 20 scores to 16 but hung on to win, 10.6 (66) to 8.12 (60). We failed to score a goal in the last. It was a wet night. Kennedy beat OMac in a number of one on ones kicking 3 goals.  

We are a different outfit this year and the WCE aren't playing particularly well. We won't be overly tall.

Maybe Goody might try something like a fwd line of Watts, Pedo, Garlett, Harmes, Hannan and Bugg with Petracca and Bernie spending more time in the midfield.

That would leave TMac to head back.  

Anyone know how the Weed went last weekend for Casey?

Salem/Vince/anb /bugg can all spend more time in the guts . Stretch or Wagner to come in . 

Another week and again confused about this idea of resting players in anticipation of next weeks game. 

We've just come off a "long" break and only played 2 games. Each week is about winning, not thinking about the week after. 

Best team plays at all times, unless you are "rebuilding", form,  have injuries or have better players coming back from injury. 

Geez we've had bad luck with injury this year. I'd have Gawn, Hogan, Hibberd and Jones in our top 5 most valuable players and they've yet to play a single game together and still won't until at least round 16. It's frustrating but also remarkable that we are still in a great position.

Id  play Vince more in the midfield in Jones' absence, perhaps in a negating role on Mitchell or Priddis. Tmac goes back with Hunt, Salem, Lewis to cover Bernie's role.

Id be a little worried about being too tall down back. But Frost and TMac are such good athletes it might be an advantage.

In: Gawn

Out: Jones

 

Edited June 20, 20178 yr by deejammin'

Should they give TMac a rest this week, freshen him up after a heavy workload?

1 hour ago, jnrmac said:

Last week against Geelong the Weagles had 5 players over 190cm.

Vardy 200, McKenzie 197, Schofield 196, McGovern 195, Barass 194, Darling 191

We have Watts 196, Gawn 208, Frost 194, TMac 194, OMac 196, Pederson 193

Last year we should have won the game against WCE at Domain. In the tall contests we got beaten physically rather than by pure height. The Eagles trailed at every change, conceded 66 inside 50s to 37,and 20 scores to 16 but hung on to win, 10.6 (66) to 8.12 (60). We failed to score a goal in the last. It was a wet night. Kennedy beat OMac in a number of one on ones kicking 3 goals.  

We are a different outfit this year and the WCE aren't playing particularly well. We won't be overly tall.

Maybe Goody might try something like a fwd line of Watts, Pedo, Garlett, Harmes, Hannan and Bugg with Petracca and Bernie spending more time in the midfield.

That would leave TMac to head back.  

My post was more a query in general re our structure with Gawn back and soon to be Hogan.

I didn't make it with this week's game in mind.

This is the first game of the season where I haven't felt confident at all.  The factors of Jones out, Watts maybe out, key players sore, trip to Perth, Gawn likely underdone.

Expecting a loss, but wont be surprised at all if they take care of business.

Kennedy unlikely - https://thewest.com.au/sport/west-coast-forward-josh-kennedy-unlikely-to-face-melbourne-at-domain-stadium-on-saturday-night-ng-b88512211z

2 hours ago, Petraccattack said:

This is the first game of the season where I haven't felt confident at all.  The factors of Jones out, Watts maybe out, key players sore, trip to Perth, Gawn likely underdone.

Expecting a loss, but wont be surprised at all if they take care of business.

Yes it is certainly getting harder. I think they should seriously consider Tenners as a replacement for jones. On the website, they confirm Jones 4-6 weeks, and recovering Hunt, Watts and Jetta, all of whom they expect to be fit. 

With Jones out, it does leave a hole in the onfield  leadership. I don't feel Viney is as yet mature enough to provide that by himself, particularly when we need cool heads in a crisis. Everything you hear about Tenners is he has outstanding leadership abilities, and it will be really up to the likes of Lewis, Vince, Watts and Max together with Viney and hopefully Tenners to step up in that direction. It is not as if Jones is all that nippy himself. It his intensity at the ball which is elite, and in that Tenners could almost match him.

The news has certainly made Saturday that much harder, and leadership will be critical. So for me, I'd have the changes:

In:  Gawn Trengove

Out: Jones.  Neal-Bullen

Edited June 20, 20178 yr by Dees2014

3 hours ago, PaulRB said:

Kennedy unlikely - https://thewest.com.au/sport/west-coast-forward-josh-kennedy-unlikely-to-face-melbourne-at-domain-stadium-on-saturday-night-ng-b88512211z

Kennedy will play

9 hours ago, shorty said:

Isn't Maynard a B grade rookie ,I don't think they can be upgraded. Could be wrong!

For some reason I can never get the rookie regulations fixed in my head, but I think cat-B's can come and go as they please . . .?

 

How about TMac on the wing? His aerobic capacity can be exploited to it's fullest in this position? Might seem a bit of a shame to have him key defense after blossoming up the ground.

And for those worrying we'll have too many talls, Frost is so fast he barely counts as a tall in the conventional sense. 

 

In: Gawn

Out Jones

1 hour ago, Pitchy said:

How about TMac on the wing? His aerobic capacity can be exploited to it's fullest in this position? Might seem a bit of a shame to have him key defense after blossoming up the ground.

And for those worrying we'll have too many talls, Frost is so fast he barely counts as a tall in the conventional sense. 

 

In: Gawn

Out Jones

Disgree.

The thought of going back to both McDonalds and Frost all in defence makes me start to perspire.

There's Hunt, Hibberd, who plays tall, Salem, and Jetta.  I don't see how 3 talls with questionable foot-skills in defence works.  

I repeat, we've won our last 6 quarters of footy with a structure of two key talls in defence (Oscar and Frost), which has contributed to Oscar's career best form.

Tom is too slow, poorly skilled and unco to be a wingman, so forget trying to come up with a leftfield solution simply to fit them all in.

For me it's a real dilemma.  I think they'll try and work through it, but I suspect they'll come to the same conclusion as me.  Structurally, I don't see both the McDonalds and Frost working.  Certainly not with Gawn back and it will be compounded when Hogan is ready.

Maybe @Fifty-5., who keenly works through these things can point me in the right direction.

A few weeks ago I had OMac coming out for Gawn to address the structural issue, but his game against Collingwood and then following up against Bulldogs threw that idea in to flux.  The most junior of the three tall defenders is the one playing the best footy.  

I expect Salem to spend more time in the middle with Jones out.  I think, for one week at least, a back six of Hibberd, Hunt, Jetta and the three talls could work.  OMac is the only three of the talls who is of the lumbering variety - TMac and Frost are both runners.  Frost in particular is fast - not just for a tall, but fast full stop.  In the era of 'zone defence' I don't think the fact that he's tall matters per se.  

I agree that this setup has a lot of dodgy kicks in the back half - but realistically the alternatives are to import someone from Casey like Wagner - another dodgy kick - or an inferior midfielder like JKH or Stretch to enable Salem to continue playing back - also not ideal.  

It'll become evident pretty quick if it doesn't work.  I'd back Goodwin to make in game changes if it's not working (perhaps move Gawn forward, put TMac back in to the ruck), and adjust the side accordingly the following week.

We worry about how to fit Hogan in when the time comes.  There are too many variables that haven't happened yet - there are probably at least two weeks worth of form, injuries and structural effectiveness to be observed before we need to make that call.