2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

While Spencer doesn't excite me, he can at least give us something in the ruck duels and he straightens us up.  Pedersen can play the majority of the game forward, which takes the pressure off Watts, Hannan and Petracca, while T Mac straightens us up down back and takes the pressure off his brother.  Because of that I'd bring Spencer in if he's fit.

Agree, I watched Spencer closely in the pre season and then the 2s. He was in very good form. Then when he replaced Max he held his own. I know he is coming back from injury but I feel he will quietly get the job done. And if nothing else, take the pressure off. 

19 hours ago, bandicoot said:

Massive outs. Especially Elliott. He has single handily transformed their forward line. 

We have some massive outs too. It baffles me that the media has not made more of the fact that we've played much of the season without a dedicated ruckman and our number one forward.

 

I'd like to see someone flatten Howe.

In the first quarter, perhaps even before the opening bounce.

 

47 minutes ago, Skuit said:

You've been using this term a bit lately and as a concept I think it could hold the key to explaining our statistical anomalies this season - particularly with regard to the Inverted U Hypothesis. Arousal and 'flow' are linked to anxiety (in the broader sense of the term) and the nature of the challenge at hand relative to levels of skill. We have a high-risk (and so high demands on skill execution), high energy game-plan in place (with a young but talented team on the field). As such, our optimal arousal for peak performance could be seen as being set further around the figurative horseshoe, with a greater build-up in reaching a flow-state and a smaller window before tipping beyond. AFL also has one one of the longest run-times for a sport of its type, which compounds the issue of trying to operate in a narrower band of effective arousal.

Some will argue this is just another way of saying we need to maintain intensity or be more 'switched on', but I think it's a little more complex than that. And Goody keeps urging the team to 'get back to its brand' when we're down, but we may not have the capacity to do so yet from an 'arousal' perspective when peak-arousal is set at a higher and less forgiving point. Super-elite athletes such as Roger Federer seem to have the ability manage their arousal states and achieve flow at a lower rate of intensity (or earlier along the horse-shoe and then within a wider band), but we're a team of kids. As we develop, peak arousal will gravitate back to the centre, yet we will still be playing the same high risk, high energy game-plan. Goodwin has set a high bar, and the pay-off will come.

Fans want to believe in psych issues such as mental fragility and hubris but this is an elite sports environment (and we're also not privy to internal biodata and how the team might be being managed). I half-joked previously that Macca should take the last two minutes of pre-game and half-time address, but this could be well off the mark.

 

4 minutes ago, Danelska said:

@Skuit - nice breakdown. Without lecturing or admonishing you - the inverted u hypothesis is archaic and redundant, and I'd be worried if this was one way that the department made sense of psychological states and reasons for not performing well, or in line with the brand.  The inverted u hypothesis is about getting to your optimal performance state... which doesn't exist  there is no evidence that exists (even though its a lovely fuzzy concept) and certainly is not sustainable. Was Jeffy in flow state in Alice? Was Hall in flow state in the first qrt...nope - both were simply 'on task' when the opportunities presented. So it's a fallacy (read, a [censored] waste of time) trying to pursue optimal arousal states, when the real emotional experience of playing AFL is... stressful, anxiety provoking, includes fear and (the positive emotions)... it takes far too much emotional effort to try and avoid that discomfort whilst trying to perform. This is what actually increases performance inconsistency. Trying to fix legitimate experiences, whilst not willing to have them and stick to behaviours that you would do when feeling good/comfortable/not fatigued etc etc etc

Jargon such as mental fragility, mental toughness are catch all, simplistic terms for making sense of - at a particular point in time, why was x person unwilling/unable to do what matters while x (thoughts, feelings, emotions) was showing up. And the punters/commentators use such term, to make sense of - x person typically can do a behaviour (kick a goal) , why not then, i am soooooo disappointed. 

Goodwin speaks of brand --> read this as personal values. And the only reason anyone is ever willing to have discomfort ...is in service of what matters (gut running, the emotional experience of getting collected under a high ball, the urge to guide a kick under stress rather than kick fully through it).

I was mostly just trying to bait the 'scoreboard' types with some additional psychobabble. 

Inverted U is archaic, but it's still a concept that persists at elite levels (as is IZOF), and I would bet it's covered in the Level 4 AFL Coaching curriculum (of which Goodwin is a graduate). And when Goodwin speaks of our brand of football, he is almost certainly referring to our high risk, high energy contested style which has brought rewards.

To break it down minus some of the the theoretical jargon: Our game-style demands a high intensity with a high level of risk-taking and so then skill execution. With 'flow' models, peak performance is achieved when the challenge is sufficient enough relative to skills to hold concentration and execution before dropping off due to anxiety/arousal.

We have a young but talented team being set challenges more against themselves than against the opposition. It's taking them longer than normal to recognise the challenge - hence the easy comebacks - but they're also being asked to perform at a high level of execution and bravado - hence the tightening up as anxiety rises in close encounters.

 

1 hour ago, Ron Burgundy said:

We have some massive outs too. It baffles me that the media has not made more of the fact that we've played much of the season without a dedicated ruckman and our number one forward.

 

We aren't Eddywood ...capiche 

Having a debate with a Collingwood 'mate'. I am of the belief that loss of Gawn is as big for Melbourne as Pendlebury would be for the Pies. He thinks this premise is laughable. Am I delusional?

3 minutes ago, martin said:

Having a debate with a Collingwood 'mate'. I am of the belief that loss of Gawn is as big for Melbourne as Pendlebury would be for the Pies. He thinks this premise is laughable. Am I delusional?

Yes. Having a Collingwood mate is delusional.

7 minutes ago, martin said:

Having a debate with a Collingwood 'mate'. I am of the belief that loss of Gawn is as big for Melbourne as Pendlebury would be for the Pies. He thinks this premise is laughable. Am I delusional?

Aside from what Skuit said, there is at least two feet for a start....

5 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Yes. Having a Collingwood mate is delusional.

Ha - you should try being married to one...

12 minutes ago, jane02 said:

Ha - you should try being married to one...

Had one of the fully-toothed variety as a flat-mate last year. He just told me that he secretly hoped we give them a hiding on Queen's b-day, in that it might finally force the admin to make a move on Buckley. Reminded me of my darker S&MFC desires during the Neeld days, and the first time I've ever felt any sense of empathy for a Pies' supporter.  

31 minutes ago, Skuit said:

Yes. Having a Collingwood mate is delusional.

Strangely....most of mine are.. as is wife and family.

Shlt happens

Play on...

2 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Strangely....most of mine are.. as is wife and family.

Shlt happens

Play on...

I came form the working classes in Adelaide - which meant every girl I dated in my formative years came from a Port Adelaide family. Meanwhile, I supported Norwood, Melbourne, Chelsea . . . some sort of Freudian aspirational classist self-hate I suppose.

Sounds like Fasalo has recovered and is available QB   hmmmmmm!9

9 hours ago, Skuit said:

I was mostly just trying to bait the 'scoreboard' types with some additional psychobabble. 

Inverted U is archaic, but it's still a concept that persists at elite levels (as is IZOF), and I would bet it's covered in the Level 4 AFL Coaching curriculum (of which Goodwin is a graduate). And when Goodwin speaks of our brand of football, he is almost certainly referring to our high risk, high energy contested style which has brought rewards.

To break it down minus some of the the theoretical jargon: Our game-style demands a high intensity with a high level of risk-taking and so then skill execution. With 'flow' models, peak performance is achieved when the challenge is sufficient enough relative to skills to hold concentration and execution before dropping off due to anxiety/arousal.

We have a young but talented team being set challenges more against themselves than against the opposition. It's taking them longer than normal to recognise the challenge - hence the easy comebacks - but they're also being asked to perform at a high level of execution and bravado - hence the tightening up as anxiety rises in close encounters.

 

Again, there is no 'flow' moments, or 'flow minutes' - (flow is oft used, and outdated).  I'd rather have the athletes execute consistently no matter how they feel, rather than putting energy and effort into 'getting into flow, getting comfortable, reducing anxiety'. This appears to be what Goodwin is educating... and it works on a physiological level (i.e. fatigue) as well as a psychological level (exposure to the discomfort whilst executing correctly = reduced anxiety as it feeds into competence in those situations (and thus confidence)) - THIS is what will hold MFC is great stead come finals...

Personally I can't coach for [censored]...but I can psychobabble until armageddon...

Edited June 5, 20178 yr by Danelska

8 hours ago, martin said:

Having a debate with a Collingwood 'mate'. I am of the belief that loss of Gawn is as big for Melbourne as Pendlebury would be for the Pies. He thinks this premise is laughable. Am I delusional?

No. In fact gawn out for us is way bigger. For a start hw is critically from a structural point of view. Pendles is not. Also gawn was an aa lock. Pendles wont make the squad. Tell your friend to do the math

10 hours ago, dees189227 said:

Well its only taken 1 day and I have heard media people say we treat this as our GF. Can I ask when and why that started? I think Beamer said it a few years ago about treating like our GF but I know its usually our biggest crowd but our Gf dont think so. 

Also what Taylor said is correct. Lyndon hasnt been in a successful team, he didnt play finals with us or win a flag but Taylor have you looked at the ladder and seen where you are sitting. You are below us. also you havent played in a successful team yet. 

The pies injuries have helped but gee Melbourne need to be on there game from the opening bounce. The boys cant walk in just expecting to win. 

No, no, no!   Adams said Dunn hasn't been part of a successful club.  That goes to core culture and administration of the MFC.  I think you are missing that subtext which Adams most probably picked up from his President - they think we have been and always will be a rabble.  From top to bottom.  I trust that Jackson and Goodwin will leverage this fully on the biggest of stages, along with the ongoing references to it being "our Grand Final".

 

Perhaps changing the culture is also about changing language - and thus remedying the fact the QB is "our Grand Final" and starting to  make the real Grand Final "our Grand Final".

36 minutes ago, jackaub said:

Sounds like Fasalo has recovered and is available QB   hmmmmmm!9

Wont get a kick on Jetta.

8 hours ago, martin said:

Having a debate with a Collingwood 'mate'. I am of the belief that loss of Gawn is as big for Melbourne as Pendlebury would be for the Pies. He thinks this premise is laughable. Am I delusional?

The only player I was super worried about losing for any games at the start of this season was Gawn.

A fully fit Gawn for the entire season and we are/were playing finals.

Gawn is possibly the single most important player to any club in the competition given that we have built our game from the contest out. I wouldn't have thought this was a controversial perspective. That we have been able to cover for his absence at all has surprised (and impressed) me, particularly with Spencer also going down.

Your mate is not just delusional, he's insanely one eyed and possibly not that clever.

 

 

Edited June 5, 20178 yr by Ron Burgundy

Josh Mahoney apparently just stated the following on SEN:

- Hogan unlikely for Monday. 

- Spencer available for selection.  

- Gawn has been running for 3-4 weeks, starts football work today and is probably two weeks away. 

- Brayshaw has been running, decision is in his hands about when to return to normal action.

2 hours ago, Scythe said:

Josh Mahoney apparently just stated the following on SEN:

- Hogan unlikely for Monday. 

- Spencer available for selection.  

- Gawn has been running for 3-4 weeks, starts football work today and is probably two weeks away. 

- Brayshaw has been running, decision is in his hands about when to return to normal action.

I hope the Professors who didn't select Pedersen at the start of the year.. don't leave him out if Spencer comes back in.

Edited June 6, 20178 yr by Mud Dogs Gonna Win

34 minutes ago, Danelska said:

Perhaps changing the culture is also about changing language - and thus remedying the fact the QB is "our Grand Final" and starting to  make the real Grand Final "our Grand Final".

It's been their grand final too lately anyway. How many players on their list have actually played in one?

43 minutes ago, Danelska said:

Perhaps changing the culture is also about changing language - and thus remedying the fact the QB is "our Grand Final" and starting to  make the real Grand Final "our Grand Final".

Perhapa we can say it is our first semi final

28 minutes ago, Mud Dogs Gonna Win said:

I hope the Professors who didn't select Pedersen at the start of the year..  leave him out if Spencer comes back in.

I'll admit I was one of those but he has definitely secured his spot.  He has definitely surprised me.